Air Georgian

[Roger1989]

They have joined alpa but from my understanding it's still the worst place to work. The few I knew there have since left to Encore and Cargojet.
Typical work day is 13 hours. It's probably the worst decision you could make to join that company. I'm sure you can find someone who works there currently to confirm the facts.
Everyone is hiring be patient.

[Roger1989]

How is air georgian still able to staff their airplanes? This is absurd. One figured The PML scandal of theirs would come to light but these kids are buying it and signing contracts. Unbelievable folks. It's a matter of time I suppose before they figure it out and run.

[skypirate88]

How is air georgian still able to staff their airplanes? This is absurd. One figured The PML scandal of theirs would come to light but these kids are buying it and signing contracts. Unbelievable folks. It's a matter of time I suppose before they figure it out and run.

And what exactly is their PML scandal? If you're going to throw out accusations, you may as well be specific.

[gtanorth]

The PML works the same at GGN as it does anywhere, the only difference is that a certain mud slinger didn't get axed from the other express partners. The PML is certainly no scam, it is a way for AC to get pilots into the system while controlling attrition from Express to outside of the big red team. The real only attrition outside of AC now is those that got PFO'd or those that don't want AC for whatever personal reason or circumstance.

[flying4dollars]

They have joined alpa but from my understanding it's still the worst place to work. The few I knew there have since left to Encore and Cargojet.
Typical work day is 13 hours. It's probably the worst decision you could make to join that company. I'm sure you can find someone who works there currently to confirm the facts.
Everyone is hiring be patient.

Interesting. My typical work day is about 9 hours. Of which a fair bit is spent hanging out in the airport lounge relaxing. And yes, I work here. Many pilots have moved on to ac. The pml is not a scam. Not sure where this belief comes from. Worst decision to work here based on what? Yup, you'll find a few who don't like it here. You'll also find many who do. If you're going to throw out slanderous comments, why not back it up with facts that you didn't get from guys you know who know guys who worked here?

Or are you a disgruntled employee hiding behind an Internet forum username?

[Roger1989]

Flying4peanuts and living off the lounge. A classic georgian pilot.

[flying4dollars]

Flying4peanuts and living off the lounge. A classic georgian pilot.

Right. Well I won't be feeding any trolls today so I'll move on from your ignorance.

[MCB]

Flying4peanuts and living off the lounge. A classic georgian pilot.

Right. Well I won't be feeding any trolls today so I'll move on from your ignorance.

I've personally observed someone load up a tupperware container. Then we wonder why they ban crew members priority pass cards...

[Roger1989]

It's a matter of time before they get us all booted out of there. Flying4peanuts has no shame. Tells you how it is. Spends most of his day relaxing in the lounge. Brilliant. Is that what you signed up for? Get a real job you troll!

[Black_Tusk]

And here I get annoyed if I have longer than a 2 hour wait between flights. Relaxing in the lounge is the last thing I want to do. Send me flying or send me home.

[flying4dollars]

And here I get annoyed if I have longer than a 2 hour wait between flights. Relaxing in the lounge is the last thing I want to do. Send me flying or send me home.

True, but I was trying to shed some light on the supposed 13 hour slave days that was mentioned. Does it happen? Sure it does. Where doesn't it in the airline world? But is it scheduled like this every day? Most certainly not. In either case, nobody here is overworked.

[Boreas]

I load my flask up there sometimes

[Ancient]

Pretty sure my Jazz friend said he bought a lounge membership to eat and relax between flights too.

[gtanorth]

I think most pilots use the lounge in the same way - respectfully. Some unfortunately, from all operators, do abuse it and it may one day cause a crackdown for flightcrew.

[Black_Tusk]

Nothing wrong with using the lounge if you have to (respectfully of course). That being said, I would rather be flying especially if it's a min credit day.

[rudder]

No fleet expansion for Georgian in 2017?

What about 2018?

[mbav8r]

Just my opinion, that'll depend on whether the new union reps play hardball and go for the moon on the first go, also dependant on a strike mandate, when not if the company plays hardball!

[Black_Tusk]

Good luck trying to strike on Air Canada. We can all see how well that worked out in the past.

[mbav8r]

Good luck trying to strike on Air Canada. We can all see how well that worked out in the past.

My point about any growth at GGN, it'll depend on how negotiations go.

[rudder]

With the pilots and flight attendants at GGN now unionized, the costs have only one way to go and that is up. I don't think that anybody signed a card to work more and get paid less.

Staffing requirements will increase even with no growth (decrease in productivity). Cost of labour will go up (improvements in pay, pension, benefits). This is not the fault of the 'unions'. This is an almost inevitable outcome when a company is an outlier on pay and work rules.

Whatever margin on the CPA that now flows to the GGN owners is about to shrink unless AC agrees to assume the increased labour costs as a pass through (unlikely). The net result will be an eventual levelling of the playing field when it comes to Express labour costs. Labour should never be forced to compete.

[Roger1989]

With the pilots and flight attendants at GGN now unionized, the costs have only one way to go and that is up. I don't think that anybody signed a card to work more and get paid less.

Staffing requirements will increase even with no growth (decrease in productivity). Cost of labour will go up (improvements in pay, pension, benefits). This is not the fault of the 'unions'. This is an almost inevitable outcome when a company is an outlier on pay and work rules.

Whatever margin on the CPA that now flows to the GGN owners is about to shrink unless AC agrees to assume the increased labour costs as a pass through (unlikely). The net result will be an eventual levelling of the playing field when it comes to Express labour costs. Labour should never be forced to compete.

Well put. I can tell you AC will not assume the increased costs. It is all inevitable as you put it that the costs are increasing. georgian is in for a rude awakening. Suddenly the PML carrot will not be so enticing to pilots. Generally the only ones who join and sign simply couldn't get jobs elsewhere and had no choice. I mean why else would one work for such a company? They had approximately 99% vote towards ALPA. Conditions are not great working for them. The guys I know first hand have either left or are in process of leaving even while bonded.

[goingnowherefast]

Some go there simply for the jet time as you can be hired directly for the CRJ. This is in contrast to Jazz where you bid and may not get the jet. This would also be after their Sky Regional application hasn't gone anywhere for various reasons.

Some people simply want 500 or 1000hrs of jet time on their resume before applying overseas and elsewhere. ALPA will make their short stay more pleasant. If the company can't afford unionised pilots and flight attendants? Well, they don't care because they're job searching after 6 months anyway.

[gtanorth]

Some go there simply for the jet time as you can be hired directly for the CRJ. This is in contrast to Jazz where you bid and may not get the jet. This would also be after their Sky Regional application hasn't gone anywhere for various reasons.

Some people simply want 500 or 1000hrs of jet time on their resume before applying overseas and elsewhere. ALPA will make their short stay more pleasant. If the company can't afford unionised pilots and flight attendants? Well, they don't care because they're job searching after 6 months anyway.

Pretty dated opinions above.

[Tanker299]

Incredible reading all of this. People actually think sky is better then ggn! Remember that's Scab regional and was created to bust the union. Ggn has been around longer (as one company) then Jazz and even though the union was not that amazing it at least had one. The CBA ggn had with OREA was better then the one wsg has with ALPA. Also Jazz is not the place it once was yes they still have a better CBA then most but that does not excuse the new 2 class system for the pilots. Everyone still has that jazz fantasy, sorry folks with all the kids there now vs the former 4-6000h FOs that has to wait 4-8 years to upgrade that will just keep going down. You folks go there and make 35k and you line up the door for it. You stab everyone of us in the back by dragging what was once a career company further down. Scab has no Union it's hard to commute to some cites. No Porter jumpseat and a lot of animosity from the other express and mainline pilot groups. 9h45 min rest away from base at least Ggn has 11, Ggn is now alpa so it's only going to be an upward trend. Oh and if you have the time you will A) be a1900 Capt making double what a jazz FO makes or you will be a jet FO that upgrades in 6-12 months

There is no shangri la out there folks it's called work not fun for a reason. There are a lot worse places to work then GGN SKY JAZZ Porter or Dubjay E. You could be at Wasaya, bearskin, Carson or EVAS and the likes.

[goingnowherefast]

Some go there simply for the jet time as you can be hired directly for the CRJ. This is in contrast to Jazz where you bid and may not get the jet. This would also be after their Sky Regional application hasn't gone anywhere for various reasons.

Some people simply want 500 or 1000hrs of jet time on their resume before applying overseas and elsewhere. ALPA will make their short stay more pleasant. If the company can't afford unionised pilots and flight attendants? Well, they don't care because they're job searching after 6 months anyway.

Pretty dated opinions above.

That may be, but the only 2 people I know at Georgian are doing exactly that. One wants the jet time to go overseas, the other wants jet time so he can get to the likes of Sunwing/Transat ASAP.