Log SIC hours on Let410

Flyright28 · Post by **Flyright28** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:22 am

Hi guys,

I came across you if somebody could give any help. I have a Tc CPL ME IR, and a job offer on a Let 410 as a first officer. Company's AOC states minimum 2 crew for this aircraft. Question is how can I log SIC hours on let 410 as far as I understand there is no type rating for this aircraft for Transport Canada. Assuming also job is outside of Canada.

Thank you all,

Cheers,

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:02 am

Aside from it being obscenely ugly I can't see what the problem is. The King Air is a single pilot aeroplane yet if 2 pilots ops are required and 2 crew training is covered you log SIC as first officer.

Or am I missing something?

ahramin · Post by **ahramin** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:21 am

Obviously you cannot fly this aircraft with your Canadian CPL outside of Canada, so what other licence or validation will you be using?

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:37 am

Not a problem. Minimum Flight Crew for the Let 410 is 2 crew (according to the EASA type data sheet).

Transport Canada does not offer an Airbus A380 type rating either, yet the Canadian boys and girls at Emirates, Qatar Airways, and other A380 operators still log the PIC and SIC time.

Flyright28 · Post by **Flyright28** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:55 pm

My fear is at Transport Canada's recognition of those SIC hours at the time I would ask for an Atpl.According to the CARS, the co-pilot must be "qualified" on the airplane so that those hours will Be counted towards atpl. As far as my inderstanding of CARS, being qualified would mean having a valid PPC or PCC if we talk about Operating an aircraft in Canada. However, neither the PPC nor the PCC exist elsewhere.

feel-x · Post by **feel-x** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:36 pm

like any other single pilot aircraft that you have a PPC or not you can log the time as SIC according to your Company Operation Manual. If it state that you require 2 pilot then you will be trained by the cie. (PCC) and you will need to bring with you in order to get your ATPL a letter from the cie (CP or DFO) stating that they operate this aircraft with 2 pilots.
You still need that letter if you are flying an aircraft that is rated single pilot even if you have a PPC like a king air or 1900 ...
I hope this answer
If you got more specific answer call your local TC rep and ask!

lownslow · Post by **lownslow** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:58 pm

co-joe wrote:Aside from it being obscenely ugly?...

Aw, c'mon. It's like a Twotter had a wild romp with a MU-2 and this is what came out of the hangar nine months later.

TeePeeCreeper · Post by **TeePeeCreeper** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:40 am

It's simple. (I may be wrong in my assumption of employers here) but further your career and lessen your heart ache by telling Mike to f*%¥ off.

Advice I wish I had been given years ago...

pelmet · Post by **pelmet** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:02 am

TeePeeCreeper wrote:It's simple. (I may be wrong in my assumption of employers here) but further your career and lessen your heart ache by telling Mike to f*%¥ off.

Advice I wish I had been given years ago...

How interesting ....the other day you barged into a thread I started about winter ops and accused me of being the "biggest shit disturber" on this forum without giving an example. I give this thread and that other one...viewtopic.php?f=54&t=114828......as examples of you being what you accuse others of. Please don't reply...just take you own advice and STFU. Perhaps a ban by the moderator as well would be appropriate.

hamstandard · Post by **hamstandard** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:15 am

[quote="TeePeeCreeper"]It's simple. (I may be wrong in my assumption of employers here) but further your career and lessen your heart ache by telling Mike to f*%¥ off.

Advice I wish I had been given years ago...[/quote]
Have to admit, you do sound like a real dipsh!t.

TeePeeCreeper · Post by **TeePeeCreeper** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:02 pm

pelmet wrote:
TeePeeCreeper wrote:It's simple. (I may be wrong in my assumption of employers here) but further your career and lessen your heart ache by telling Mike to f*%¥ off.

Advice I wish I had been given years ago...
How interesting ....the other day you barged into a thread I started about winter ops and accused me of being the "biggest shit disturber" on this forum without giving an example. I give this thread and that other one...viewtopic.php?f=54&t=114828......as examples of you being what you accuse others of. Please don't reply...just take you own advice and STFU. Perhaps a ban by the moderator as well would be appropriate.

*yawn*

Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
Not too many LET410 ops out there that would hire a Canadian pilot to fly for them.
The op really doesn't have to read to far between the lines...

TeePeeCreeper · Post by **TeePeeCreeper** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:03 pm

hamstandard wrote: Have to admit, you do sound like a real dipsh!t.

Ah? Ok, thank you for your contribution to this thread as well?

Chaxterium · Post by **Chaxterium** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:43 am

Just be careful. I'm assuming it's a foreign operator and if TC doesn't recognize it as a two-crew aircraft you're going to have trouble. When I applied for my ATPL I included a bunch of time as an FO on a Twin Otter down in the Caribbean and they wouldn't accept it. (Despite a number of my colleagues getting their ATPLs signed off with this time included). I tried everything but there was no way they would accept it. I had all the proper documentation from my employer; letter from the Chief Pilot, copy of our ops manual which shows two-crew ops, copies of my training records, etc) I was even in the process of taking them to the tribunal. Fortunately I finally spoke to a helpful person at TC and she told me to get my FAA ATP and convert it to a TC ATPL. Worked like a charm.

To add some context, this was a few years ago back when TC counted FO time at 50%. The FAA counted FO time 1 to 1 so I was able to get my FAA ATP with relative ease and then in the conversion process to a TC ATPL, they only look at total time so they didn't care about my FO time.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:41 am

Flyright28 wrote:My fear is at Transport Canada's recognition of those SIC hours at the time I would ask for an Atpl.According to the CARS, the co-pilot must be "qualified" on the airplane so that those hours will Be counted towards atpl. As far as my inderstanding of CARS, being qualified would mean having a valid PPC or PCC if we talk about Operating an aircraft in Canada. However, neither the PPC nor the PCC exist elsewhere.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here.

First of all, I am assuming that you are getting a legitimate job for some sort of operation that runs a legal operation. The Let 410 will most likely require a type rating to fly- either because the country you will fly in requires you to hold a type rating for every single type you need to fly (even Cessna 150's), or because they go by a US-weight definition (more than 12,500lbs/5700kg), of because they go by a Canadian-style type rating defintion (minimum 2-crew). In any case, once you have that type rating on your foreign license or validation you are "qualified" to fly it, and those SIC hours count. Transport Canada may want to see your foreign license/validation to demonstrate that you were actually qualified to fly this aircraft (rather than you just logging ficticious flight time) but the time is valid.

As far as people like Chasterium talking about their Twin Otter time, I can see a problem here because a Twin Otter is a single-pilot aircraft, by it's type certificate, and not even a high performance aircraft. Therefore, no Type Rating exists for a DHC-6 in Canada. You can legally fly a DHC6 privately with your Multiengine rating and nothing else. However the Let 410 is a 2-crew aircraft.

Meatservo · Post by **Meatservo** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Time logged as SIC in a twin otter is perfectly legitimate. Most companies operate them two-crew and if it's in accordance with what is required by the company operations manual it doesn't matter what the type certificate says. Many, many Canadian pilots have met their licensing requirements by logging SIC on Twin Otters.

Flyright28 · Post by **Flyright28** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:57 pm

Thank you guys for all of you, reallt appreciate

Log SIC hours on Let410

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