? how many jazz or wj encore f/o's hold...

[oldncold]

How many jazz. wj encore f/o hold second jobs and / or part time casual flying job due to low pay.

[iamnomaverick]

When I did charters as a King Air skipper I made 72K, I took home around $4000.00. Working 22 days a month and had to deal with the usual 703 BS.

Now on second year FO pay (and including per diems) I take home roughly $3300-3500 a month working around 16 days a month. If I decide to work some overtime (1 or 2 extra days a month) I can easily pull in >4000 a month.

I truly don't see the need to work another job as there's plenty of overtime to go around if one chooses to do so.

[Gear Jerker]

I doubt anybody who is living a reasonable lifestyle from either company has any need for a second income just to pay the bills. Don't believe everything you hear.

[Black_Tusk]

I pulled about 4k my first month on line. With 3 WDOs which were quick turns and done after 6 hours. Once I hold a better block and move out west I'll have more chances to pick up easy OT. Add per diems on top of that and I really can't complain about the pay.

[Oxi]

Both black tusk and iamnomaverick are referencing numbers pre tax I should add.

[skypirate88]

iamnomaverick's numbers aren't pre tax. He included perdiems.

After tax, year 1 FO is a whopping 2200 a month. Include perdiems at 1000-1500 a month, his number looks correct. As a YYZ blockholder, I am normally 1300-1500 a month in perdiems. I don't know how the other bases stack up, but I suspect they aren't too different.

As far as a second job is concerned, I do not need one. As the sole provider in my household of 4, I can comfortably pay all my monthly expenses and have savings left over. It's called having a budget, and sticking to it. If I need some extra money, I take an extra day at work. I doubt I could ever find a part time job that pays as much hourly.

[iamnomaverick]

Both black tusk and iamnomaverick are referencing numbers pre tax I should add.

I did say "take home" and "per diems included"...

What I didn't mention also is that I opted to have around $250 a month deducted from my pay to go towards our employee stock sharing program. So you can EASILY break 4k (TAKE HOME) a month having a relatively low stress and cushy job.

[Monorail Conductor]

Was an army reservist while flying as an FO. Bid for the days i needed each month to do training and field weekends. Didnt always get them off, but it was an extra 400 bucks a month. That 400 wasnt to cover expenses or rent, but to cover frivolous luxuries like nights out, weekend trips etc.

Would highly recommend this path for students

[JBI]

How many jazz. wj encore f/o hold second jobs and / or part time casual flying job due to low pay.

Due to "low pay"? None. Due to wanting to increase their income or doing something else because they enjoy it and the schedules, while not amazing by aviation standards, still allow them to do something additional? Probably a few.

Some pilots like to spend their time off engaged in hobbies, others like to find ways to make more income, some like to do both. I know a number of pilots who fly for a mainline carrier but are also doctors and lawyers. I also know a number of pilots at both the mentioned careers who are continuing their education.

Some pilots, it seems, like to spend their time-off by simply trolling internet message boards. But hey, we all need hobbies.

[DanWEC]

If I need some extra money, I take an extra day at work. I doubt I could ever find a part time job that pays as much hourly.

Very good point! Though I know a few people that have side jobs doing contract web design, programming, etc. Curious to see how that stacks up with an O/T day, or a few hundred bucks doing cameos as a bartender.

[co-joe]

When I did charters as a King Air skipper I made 72K, I took home around $4000.00. Working 22 days a month and had to deal with the usual 703 BS.

Now on second year FO pay (and including per diems) I take home roughly $3300-3500 a month working around 16 days a month. If I decide to work some overtime (1 or 2 extra days a month) I can easily pull in >4000 a month.

I truly don't see the need to work another job as there's plenty of overtime to go around if one chooses to do so.

Thank you for posting real world numbers. 3500/mo is about the take home pay of someone making $26/h working 40h/ week, or 52K/ y if my number crunching is on today. That's including pre-diems which are tax free so the calculations are more complicated but money is money in my books.


I have no idea how to crunch the numbers on Airline Pilot Central. No idea what they mean since it's not a 40 hour work week. Not saying you are at Jazz cause I know you didn't specify...

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... anada_jazz

[Mart]

Fairly easy math, both encore and Jazz have monthly credit between 75 to 85 and hourly rate between 36$ to 38$ for FO. So multiply credit by hourly rate and voilà you have your take home pay pre-tax. In both case they are quite low unless you enjoy WDO or second job as a bartender and forget about life quality.

Like other said the usual side job tend to be web based since you can do that at the hotel. Some are in the housing market or have renting properties.

[Black_Tusk]

A WDO will make you more than any part time job, likely.

[Ancient]

.

[JBI]

How many jazz. wj encore f/o hold second jobs and / or part time casual flying job due to low pay.

Due to "low pay"? None.

They actually ask you in the Encore interview how you're going to afford living in Toronto on such low pay.

What was your answer?

[Ancient]

.

[FishermanIvan]

How many jazz. wj encore f/o hold second jobs and / or part time casual flying job due to low pay.

Due to "low pay"? None.

They actually ask you in the Encore interview how you're going to afford living in Toronto on such low pay.

Toronto is hardly more expensive than Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, or Victoria.

[fish4life]

Calgary is cheap, low income tax, cheap rents (now), only 5% sales tax, cheap gas.

[gunitchewy]

Your second job would have to pay really well to beat all the overtime on offer.

[arctic_slim]

I don't know what you're talking about. First year FO pay at Encore on T4 shows 50k, not including per diems. With per diems it's closer to 60k. Where do you get the idea that FOs need second jobs??? Don't know about Jazz but Encore is my highest paid job so far.

[sstaurus]

^ ^ and there's another problem with reaching so far down the experience ladder these days. Not saying you aren't , but if first year Encore FO is the highest you've been paid so far, then you probably haven't flown very long. All I'm saying is Encore needs people who come in and question management as to why they don't get paid for duty time...

[DanWEC]

How is a 1st year FO at Encore making 60k? 100 hr months? Curious because thought the posted scales put it more like 40k so I thought.

[atphat]

That would be the only way. Looking at the pay scales.

[bob99]

The 60 he said included perdiems. The 50k makes sense once you add in profit share as well. Also add 10% for esp matching.

[arctic_slim]

^ ^ and there's another problem with reaching so far down the experience ladder these days. Not saying you aren't , but if first year Encore FO is the highest you've been paid so far, then you probably haven't flown very long. All I'm saying is Encore needs people who come in and question management as to why they don't get paid for duty time...

True. They are hiring with less and less expereince but thats a totally different discussion. For me, i never went for the glamours medevac captain jobs. I stayed in the cities i wanted and took the crappy jobs that didnt pay well and worked my way to get to where i am, and am 100% happy with where i am.

As for 100 hour months, definitely not. Looking at my logbook ive averaged just under 80 hours a month.
As others have said, dont just look at what the base salary shows. That 40k is literally minimum pay if you stay home all month every month and never fly, the basic minimum pay. There are bonuses, deadhead pay, overtime, shift pickups, stat pay, per diems, esp. It all adds up. Ive done overtime for sure and that makes quite a difference to a paycheck but ive only done that on some months.

Anyway, there is always this misconception of jazz and encore FOs getting paid poverty wages...i dont think its as bad as people think. Sure i think we deserve more but its a pretty good job with plenty of opportunity for the future progression and pay increase.
I know i always get judged for not helping the industry by working for low pay, or racing to the bottom, or chasing metal, or prostituting myself for a job or not having enough experience to deserve being where i am, or not having worked enough "real flying jobs" and whatever else people say but whatever...i worked hard in my career, worked ramp, flew in the bush and concrete airports, ifr and vfr, piston and turbine, single and multi, minus 40 to plus 40 and am very happy with where i have ended up and with what my future looks like. Aviation is a tough career at thr beginning.

Thats my 2 cents, you guys do whatever you want with it. I just wanted to share some info for the topic.