New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

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JohnnyHotRocks
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New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#1 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:08 pm

Seems like last minute GA flying in/out of yyz is going to get difficult

http://apps.torontopearson.com/torontop ... ileid=2165
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whatsitdoingnow
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#2 Post by whatsitdoingnow » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:09 pm

Ouch, that seems overly restrictive. Maybe this is the start of a push to remove or at least reduce the amount of GA/BA flights as airline movements inevitably increase?

Might help those constantly "on call" :D
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#3 Post by Prodriver » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:34 pm

That list looks a little one sided. Just tell them your Medivac I guess.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#4 Post by nwopilot » Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:01 pm

I like how "sport charters" made the exemption list :rolleyes:
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#5 Post by Jet Jockey » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:58 pm

Yes our Ops told us about this earlier this week... Total BS from the GTAA like usual.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#6 Post by Giggidy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:54 pm

No worries gents! Lots of alternatives for us to use.

We'll just go out of the Island instead....oh wait...or Buttonv....wait, no..... Hamilton?....Lake Simcoe?....Kitchener???

This is not gonna go well.....


Can anyone else think of another major airport in North America that (slots aside) needs 48 hours' notice for a GA arrival? Pretty sure New York (all of them), Atlanta, Chicago and Los Angeles will take you same-day as long as there's room. What am I missing here???
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#7 Post by CL-Skadoo! » Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:37 pm

Is the CBAA going to stand up for us on this one at all?
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#8 Post by Giggidy » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:03 pm

CL-Skadoo! wrote:Is the CBAA going to stand up for us on this one at all?
I have to imagine they would. In my (admittedly-short) career in Corporate Aviation, this is easily one of the most ludicrous things I've ever seen.


As a workaround though.....would anyone like to form a team and join my International Championship Beer Pong league? We play all over the world and it's pretty fast-paced, so games are often organized with less than 48 hours' notice. No age limit. Must own or operate a corporate aircraft to qualify.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#9 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:57 pm

From what I understand the local GA tenants and CBAA will be getting involved but I am not convinced that anything will change. Sounds like GTAA wants to force corporate aircraft out which is strange since there are two large hangar complexes in the works.
Maybe this is the first step towards the dream of having yyz as an airline "superhub"
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#10 Post by Air.Field » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:02 pm

Forcing the Pickering airport agenda it seems like.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#11 Post by '97 Tercel » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:53 pm

Wait til a couple rich, powerful, connected jet owners get inconvenienced a couple times...
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#12 Post by totalflyer » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:51 am

I heard from my Operations Department that they contacted the GTAA and was told that the Directive was not really clear on the actual intent (or so they say and the GTAA is back-peddling hard) and they will be reissuing it.

Apparently it is supposed to be that slots are required but that are only available up to 48hrs prior.
Also during the 05/23 runway work that they will still issue slots but at a greatly reduced number (something around 3-5 per hour max)

So if there is a slot available you could possibly still go on short notice but you may not be able to.
I guess that's why they said if you are unable to use your slot to advise as soon as possible so it can be reused by another operator.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#13 Post by cdnpilot77 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:49 am

And corporate jet pax are usually so punctual, slots won't get all screwy.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#14 Post by target » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:51 am

It may work as it does in Europe, pax late you might get to travel that day maybe not, so be on time, it will happen once and they will get the msg.
I don't see the downside from the pilot side, the charter sales people will have to educate clients and owners will need to make a plan and stick to it.
Will anyone miss the scheduled 18:00 depart time that ends up being 20:00??
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#15 Post by porcsord » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:46 am

When I was flying over seas we had to have flight plans in a week in advance for flight... so we just booked 14 slots a day, every day, and then cancelled them as required.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#16 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:47 am

The point of owning the jet is so that you can travel whenever you like. That is our bread and butter!
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#17 Post by cdnpilot77 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 6:17 pm

^ what he said....

People pay A LOT of money to have the schedule at their convenience.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#18 Post by whatsitdoingnow » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:02 pm

If it's a toss up between annoying a few rich owners and used car salesman, I mean charter sales or the airlines, I think I know which side the GTAA will want to be on. I'm fairly sure the landing/Pax handling fees etc are far more substantial for airline operations than for a citation bravo. A slot is a slot.
However, I would expect this to get watered down somewhat to basically so many slots per hour.
The idea of Pax turning up on time, welll that's a novel idea! That's why I like flying in Europe, the improvement in time awareness is amazing after a few missed slots!
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#19 Post by cdnpilot77 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:49 pm

I think It could be argued very fiercely that the revenue and economic benefit GA brings to the GTA, that this is an essential service. Does the government not hold any oversight?
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#20 Post by PT6-114A » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:12 pm

When we go into anywhere that has slots we have a chat with the pax about how important it is that they make the time or we may have to wait an unknown amount of time. They are always very thankful that we let them know and are on time or call ahead if there is a porblem. I wonder if some people are to afraid/nervous to bring it up with them do they know how important it is to make that time? Take two min to chat with them it goes a long way. They are just normal people (most of them)
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#21 Post by JohnnyHotRocks » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:41 pm

The problem is not the slot...it's the 48hrs notice!
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#22 Post by CrewSked » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:30 pm

Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to get an update across. I can tell you the CBAA is working as hard as it can to get a solution to this problem. We just put out an update message that I've pasted below.


Dear Member,

As you are probably aware, the GTAA issued a directive requiring GA/BA flights to book arrival and departure slots 48 hours in advance from March 26th.

Even more problematic, GA/BA operators will not be allowed arrival slots between 1500 to 1959 during runway 05/23 rehabilitation periods (Mar. 28 – May 16 and Oct. 10 – Nov. 3)

With this directive, GTAA has overstepped and is unfairly punishing our operators. As a priority, we are working to have GTAA roll back the ban on arrivals and then deal with the separate issues of the slots.

Actions we’re taking:

· We have discussed the airport’s actions with legal counsel, and have identified a number of potential legal remedies that counsel is investigating;

· We will initiate a direct letter writing campaign from the executives of Canada’s leading companies affected by the directive to members of the GTAA board, members of Parliament and leadership at Transport Canada.

You can read the entire directive HERE. Should you wish to contact the GTAA directly with questions or concerns, please contact Michael Belanger, michael.belanger@gtaa.com, (416) 776-7117. You may also copy the president & CEO, Howard Eng , <howard.eng@gtaa.com> so he is fully apprised of the impact of this action.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#23 Post by Jet Jockey » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:33 am

Thanks for the update.
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#24 Post by amraam » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:16 pm

Encouraging everyone to send out letters? Isn't there a more aggressive approach the CBAA could be taking?

Another update from the CBAA:

Dear Member

A number of you have requested CBAA’s support to communicate your company’s displeasure and concern over the GTAA’s 48-hour slot restrictions and landing ban during construction period. To assist your direct communications, we have provided a template ABOVE to be completed by you and signed by your CEO and sent directly to the Chairman of the GTAA Board, David Wilson. We believe that this is the most effective way to be heard, and that letters from some of Canada’s most important and innovative companies, directly from the C-suite, will have a huge impact.

We have left room for customization –please feel free to adapt the letter as best suits your needs.

Contact me if you have any questions, or need assistance. We have only a short window to get this done, since the directive takes effect next week. I hope that the majority of letters can be emailed within the next 24 hours. As you will note, we have provided both the physical and email addresses, so you can follow up with hard copy as well.

Thank you – this is only one element of our fight, but it is a crucial one. Your support will make a difference.

Kind Regards,

Rudy Toering
President & CEO

Actions we’re taking:

We have discussed the airport’s actions with legal counsel, and have identified a number of potential legal remedies that counsel is investigating;
We will initiate a direct letter writing campaign from the executives of Canada’s leading companies affected by the directive to members of the GTAA board, members of Parliament and leadership at Transport Canada.

https://www.cbaa-acaa.ca/CBAA/News/Corp ... d_ban.aspx
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Re: New yyz slots..this is gonna hurt!

#25 Post by NovaBoy » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:40 am

Damn, there's a lot of big banks with their airplanes in YYZ. I hope the GTAA doesn't go looking for a loan anytime soon.
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