My question is why the F*ck does transport Canada allow these waivers to run it
Well it's hard not to. Read the CARS and they classify a 50,000 turbo jet as a 704 aircraft so it stands to reason a 30,000 turboprop should also be able to. I don't right the rules but when they cater to domestic aircraft manufacturers there is certainly something wrong with how the government creates the laws.
Why is there assumption they departed on 09 -- they departed of 27 looking at the photos, aircraft is headed south west parallel to the south shore from I can see. Runway would be at about 5 o'clock position.
fish4life wrote:My question is why the F*ck does transport Canada allow these waivers to run it 704? It's a 705 airplane and should have to be run as a 705 airplane for performance calculations etc. What's next Cargo jet will be allowed to run the 767 under 704???
I'm confused. How would the paperwork have changed anything? It's either gonna fly, or it ain't? Scads of 705 airplanes have crashed......perhaps they should have been run 704?
Illya
If it was the Captain I think it was, I can tell you I'd be shocked to find out he did anything other than save the day. He is highly experienced and respected. Your uninformed theories are disrespectful and irritating.
Up hill no issue in pickle. It's as comfortable climbing off the hill with terrain getting lower below you and the lake as it is going towards the trees bottom of the hill off 09. My guess they departed 27, and for whatever reason could not keep the climb going after an engine malfunction, and made a slight right turn to settle on the lake. Glad you are all safe.
Rejected take-off numbers are significantly better going up-hill. If there's plenty of runway and miles of clearway for the Accelerate-Go, up-hill makes for better Accelerate-Stop performance.
Black_Tusk wrote:Don't think so. Otherwise how would it be able to operate out of 3000 foot gravel strips?
...because they fly cargo into the reserves, take-offs are done with an empty aircraft.
Does 704 with less than 9 passengers seats need to meet ASDA? Short answer is no, if authorised on the AOC. CAR 704.46 is pretty clear. However, Pickle Lake's runway is a bit longer than 4900' I bet they had lots of room, especially when it's freezing outside.
It would appear they had enough runway to get airborne and clear any obstacles past the end of the runway the question is why did it not stay airborne?
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Perhaps they traded airspeed for altitude to clear those trees:
-taxi out to 27 because it's closer and you save 1 minute
-start takeoff roll uphill and with a (small) tailwind
-lose engine
-have no idea if you are going to be able to stop because TC waivered your balanced field calculations
-remember your training pilot said it's a "homesick angel on one"
-give her the beans
-trees are getting bigger
-yank it over top of them
-stall and descend onto the ice below
Well Surfer obviously you have never been to Pickle cause you keep talking about trees off the end of 27. The only thing off the end is a big drop off down to the lake. You could run off the end of the runway with a 3 and just keep going until the ground disappears below you. No obstacles to clear! None!
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You Can Love An Airplane All You Want, But Remember, It Will Never Love You Back!
Last edited by Just another canuck on Thu Feb 24, 2022 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the things you did do.
So throw off the bowlines.
Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore. Dream. Discover.
Well, is there anyone on this site old enough to know how Frank operates??? Not over gross? You have to be kidding me! Cat, you alluded to it but were trying to be polite I assume.
Don't know what happened however, to suggest that the aircraft was not over gross is, well, you haven't been around much. Glad everyone is ok and perhaps TC can exercise some wisdom this time.....
I will not make any comment that would accuse this crew and company of flying over the gross allowable of the airplane because I have no idea what their take off weight was.
However I can say that my faith in TC exercising wisdom is not all that strong.
It will be interesting to see if any factual information comes out before it becomes a thing of the distant past and overshadowed by something else.
Ya gotta love Canadian aviation.
---------- ADS -----------
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
ipilot54 wrote:Well, is there anyone on this site old enough to know how Frank operates??? Not over gross? You have to be kidding me! Cat, you alluded to it but were trying to be polite I assume.
Don't know what happened however, to suggest that the aircraft was not over gross is, well, you haven't been around much. Glad everyone is ok and perhaps TC can exercise some wisdom this time.....
Pretty bold allegations ipilot. And you know the aircraft was over gross how? Is this factual or simply an attempt to stir up s**t?
CLguy wrote:Well Surfer obviously you have never been to Pickle cause you keep talking about trees off the end of 27. The only thing off the end is a big drop off down to the lake. You could run off the end of the runway with a 3 and just keep going until the ground disappears below you. No obstacles to clear! None!
There are trees off the end of 27 as indicated in the airport diagram and in photographs. The terrain does slope down towards the lake but it is not a clear path like you describe.
Surfer Dude wrote:Perhaps they traded airspeed for altitude to clear those trees:
-taxi out to 27 because it's closer and you save 1 minute
-start takeoff roll uphill and with a (small) tailwind
-lose engine
-have no idea if you are going to be able to stop because TC waivered your balanced field calculations
-remember your training pilot said it's a "homesick angel on one"
-give her the beans
-trees are getting bigger
-yank it over top of them
-stall and descend onto the ice below
Looking at the damage (or lack thereof) to the aircraft in the photo I would have a hard time believing it was stalled onto the ice.
