Schedules

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Newchallenge
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Schedules

#1 Post by Newchallenge » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:30 pm

New to looking into regional carriers here and wondering about scheduling mainly. Is Jazz scheduling in pairings for multiple days at a time mainly? How many consecutive nights away from home base per month? How many days of work per month? Also when does bidding occur and when is the schedule fixed? Finally, are there Reserve or On Call shifts that are mandatory or up for grabs?

Cheers.
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Re: Schedules

#2 Post by KenoraPilot » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:14 am

Hey

The schedule at jazz is made up of single day, two day, three day and max four day pairings. On the Classic Dash 8 you can expect to work about 18 days a month on RSV and between 15-18 days on a block depending on the blocking average. On the RJ and the Q I can't quote as I don't fly those but it would be similar with maybe 16-17 days on RSV a month. You can bid whatever you like, if you want to be home every night you can bid all single day pairings or if you want your flying done quickly bid 4 day pairings as they "usually" (not this month) are higher credit pairings. Bidding starts on the 10th of the month and goes until the 14th, the schedule comes out on the 23rd of each month and is fixed. We have FLICA at jazz so you can trade and "attempt" to drop shifts (currently we are flying so much and so short staffed there aren't a lot of people picking up extra shifts) RSV lines are a fixed number of lines per month depending on the need at each base on each type.

Everything I wrote above is all subject to Seniority. So if you have poor seniority you kinda get what's left over be it flying or RSV. Once your seniority goes up you can choose to do RSV or choose a block and then you can start having more freedom of overnights and pairing lengths. Everything at Jazz is based on Seniority so if you're going to come to Jazz its better to get in sooner rather than later (seniority wise).

This is my own opinion as I've seen it over the past year at Jazz and I quite like it so far. I hope this helps answer your questions.
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Re: Schedules

#3 Post by Newchallenge » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:39 pm

Thanks very much. This is very helpful. Does anyone know if Sky Regional and Georgian function with a similar schedule structure?
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Re: Schedules

#4 Post by FL-280 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:09 pm

Go to GGN and tell us how it is please... :lol: :evil: :rolleyes:
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Re: Schedules

#5 Post by KenoraPilot » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:22 am

From friends I have that work at GGN and Sky, they don't have nearly the schedule that Jazz does. This is all second hand and opinion, however, from what they've told me and from what I've heard, the contract at Jazz is far superior than GGN or Sky's and even Encores. Again this is my opinion, but I have been around the industry for a while and have talked to quite a few people at all these companies so take it as my two cents.
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Re: Schedules

#6 Post by Newchallenge » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:59 pm

Ok, thanks for the feedback again. Cheers.
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Re: Schedules

#7 Post by Newchallenge » Sat Mar 25, 2017 5:56 am

Just wondering if Jazz has a PIC under supervision program as provided under the CARs, allowing one to accumulate a certain amount of PIC hours when working towards an ATPL without having upgraded to Captain.
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Re: Schedules

#8 Post by prop2jet » Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:08 am

Newchallenge wrote:Just wondering if Jazz has a PIC under supervision program as provided under the CARs, allowing one to accumulate a certain amount of PIC hours when working towards an ATPL without having upgraded to Captain.
Yes
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Re: Schedules

#9 Post by Mône » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:07 am

About the PICUS program I'd like to advise not to bank on it. To log PICUS you have to be flying with a LTC; right now most LTCs are flying full line indoc lines, have been for the last 6 months+ and most likely will be for the foreseeable future. And if you are lucky enough to land a pairing with an LTC you will likely be displaced so a line indoc candidate can finish his training. So right now the program is a bit of a joke...
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Re: Schedules

#10 Post by ThatFliGuyDerr » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:00 pm

I would definitely not call the program a joke. I think people who lack the time for their ATPL are very lucky to even have the chance to log "PIC" Time this way. Let's be completely serious your not the one in command but your logging time as if you were. I'd say be thankful it's even offered.

Just my thoughts
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Re: Schedules

#11 Post by Black_Tusk » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:57 pm

Last I heard, a lot of the college hires these days are renting Cessnas because they can't get any time with LTC's. A bunch of them left for AC and the rest are busy with Line Indoc for new hires and upgrades. The company is so short LTC's they are sending people across the country just so they can pair them with an LTC and get through the consolidation period. So yea, I wouldn't count on PICUS anytime soon.
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Re: Schedules

#12 Post by KenoraPilot » Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:51 pm

LTC and SIM guys are working their bag's off, (and will be for the next forever) I wouldn't expect to be able to lock down any LTC guys for PICUS and if you do you're lucky lucky! I have some friendly struggling for those last PIC hours at Jazz and they are renting 150's/172's to crush those last hours.
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Re: Schedules

#13 Post by HarrisonFord » Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:22 am

Really sad when the only PIC time most, I won't say all because I know about 50% of us did it the proper way, pilots are getting is by renting a Cessna and flying it straight and level just watching the hobbs tick up hour by hour. How about before you come to the airlines you get a job where you actually have to learn and experience what it is to be a real pilot. Actually FLYING the plane and making decisions that really are about safety and strategy in getting to your destination. Not just flying from Buttonville to Barrie and back and logging it as PIC Cross country time.

Apologies for the rant.
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Re: Schedules

#14 Post by swervin » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:13 am

HarrisonFord wrote:Really sad when the only PIC time most, I won't say all because I know about 50% of us did it the proper way, pilots are getting is by renting a Cessna and flying it straight and level just watching the hobbs tick up hour by hour. How about before you come to the airlines you get a job where you actually have to learn and experience what it is to be a real pilot. Actually FLYING the plane and making decisions that really are about safety and strategy in getting to your destination. Not just flying from Buttonville to Barrie and back and logging it as PIC Cross country time.

Apologies for the rant.
I agree 100%.
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Re: Schedules

#15 Post by KenoraPilot » Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:25 am

HarrisonFord wrote:Really sad when the only PIC time most, I won't say all because I know about 50% of us did it the proper way, pilots are getting is by renting a Cessna and flying it straight and level just watching the hobbs tick up hour by hour. How about before you come to the airlines you get a job where you actually have to learn and experience what it is to be a real pilot. Actually FLYING the plane and making decisions that really are about safety and strategy in getting to your destination. Not just flying from Buttonville to Barrie and back and logging it as PIC Cross country time.

Apologies for the rant.

I agree 100%, more for the fact that people are missing out on so much fun and experience out there. Most of my best friends are from my ramp and bush flying days! I now have no regrets flying at an airline (which isn't the most exciting flying). This is a great career opportunity for people in this day but when I stared in 2003 I look back and love the time I spent struggling (lol hind sight). I flew so many places and met so many people you can't trade that in. (Just my two cents)
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Re: Schedules

#16 Post by mbav8r » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:00 pm

Mône wrote:About the PICUS program I'd like to advise not to bank on it. To log PICUS you have to be flying with a LTC; right now most LTCs are flying full line indoc lines, have been for the last 6 months+ and most likely will be for the foreseeable future. And if you are lucky enough to land a pairing with an LTC you will likely be displaced so a line indoc candidate can finish his training. So right now the program is a bit of a joke...
I'm going to refrain from saying what I'm really thinking, suffice to say that comes across as self entitled, to make use of the program requires resources that are stretched thin and perhaps the program is a joke. As in the joke's on us, to think a college grad who was given an airline job out of school would be grateful to have that job and skip the "fun" of bush flying! Go rent a 152 and do some circuits, you'll be at AC in no time!
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Re: Schedules

#17 Post by goingnowherefast » Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:53 pm

Live is an adventure. Have some fun and don't race to the destination (death?). Fly a float plane, do that northern King Air charter thing. You'll have plenty of time to do ILS to ILS with dual/triple autopilots afterwards.

You'll learn a lot more, have more fun and always look back upon "the good 'ol days" with fondness. Plus you'll have that ATPL and won't need PICUS.
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Re: Schedules

#18 Post by Mône » Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:14 pm

mbav8r wrote:
Mône wrote:About the PICUS program I'd like to advise not to bank on it. To log PICUS you have to be flying with a LTC; right now most LTCs are flying full line indoc lines, have been for the last 6 months+ and most likely will be for the foreseeable future. And if you are lucky enough to land a pairing with an LTC you will likely be displaced so a line indoc candidate can finish his training. So right now the program is a bit of a joke...
I'm going to refrain from saying what I'm really thinking, suffice to say that comes across as self entitled, to make use of the program requires resources that are stretched thin and perhaps the program is a joke. As in the joke's on us, to think a college grad who was given an airline job out of school would be grateful to have that job and skip the "fun" of bush flying! Go rent a 152 and do some circuits, you'll be at AC in no time!
Perhaps I should have added that I am an LTC and my opinion on the PICUS program is from this side of the fence. Recent candidates have been asking me about the program and the only good answer I could come up with is don't bank on it and go rent if you don't want to miss out on an upgrade.
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Re: Schedules

#19 Post by 7507 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:58 pm

KenoraPilot wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:51 pm
LTC and SIM guys are working their bag's off, (and will be for the next forever) I wouldn't expect to be able to lock down any LTC guys for PICUS and if you do you're lucky lucky! I have some friendly struggling for those last PIC hours at Jazz and they are renting 150's/172's to crush those last hours.

Pardon me about my enquiry but what do you mean they're renting cessna 150 s to crush those last hours, how many hours do they have to fill and fill what ?
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Re: Schedules

#20 Post by NotDirty! » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:39 pm

7507 wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:58 pm
Pardon me about my enquiry but what do you mean they're renting cessna 150 s to crush those last hours, how many hours do they have to fill and fill what ?
CASS 421.34 wrote:DIVISION VIII - AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT LICENCE
421.34 Aeroplanes - Requirements

[...]
(4) Experience

An applicant shall have met the training requirements for the issue of a Commercial Pilot Licence - Aeroplane that is not restricted to daylight flying and completed a minimum of 1500 hours total flight time of which a minimum of 900 hours shall have been completed in aeroplanes. The total flight time shall include a minimum of:
(amended 2000/09/01; previous version)

(a) 250 hours pilot-in-command flight time in aeroplanes which shall include where applicable, a maximum of 100 hours pilot-in-command under supervision flight time completed in accordance with Section 421.11. The pilot-in-command and/or pilot-in-command under supervision flight time shall include a minimum of 100 hours cross-country flight time of which a minimum of 25 hours shall have been by night;
(b) 100 hours night flight time as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot of which a minimum of 30 hours shall have been acquired in aeroplanes;
(c) 100 additional hours cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command or 200 hours as co-pilot or any combination thereof, with flight time calculated in accordance with section 421.10. Flight time as pilot-in-command may be part of the 250 hours pilot-in-command flight time specified in paragraph (a); and
(amended 2005/12/01; previous version)
(d) 75 hours instrument flight time of which a maximum of 25 hours may have been acquired in approved instrument ground trainers and a maximum of 35 hours may have been acquired in helicopters. Instrument ground time shall not be applied toward the total 1500 hour flight time requirement.
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Re: Schedules

#21 Post by Flash8 » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:54 am

New hires coming to Jazz with 150.1 hours of PIC will be a new normal. I came here with 2500 hours, but some hours short of my atpl, and not enough financial resources to rent a 172 for 50 more hours. Likewise I also think 50 hours in 172 vfr will not be as beneficial as 100 hours being assessed under picus. As for an LOA to fly a 185 or a navajo up north? Had a buddy who was already denied, and am confident i will have the same result given our staffing levels.

As someone who will rely on the program to get my last few hours of PIC I want to see the program succeed and not be seen as some roundabout way of padding logbooks, but as a way of assessing attitude, strengths, weaknesses etc that can be addressed. I would agree 1500 hours and 250 in a 172 is not enough time to get behind the capt wheel of a dash/Q/RJ, what is the right amount of time? I dont know, but I think a lot of it is attitude, maturity, and good recommendations from other captains/sim.

Maybe our upgrade eligibility system needs to be examined, especially for lower time candidates like myself. An upgrade hours matrix like encore? Maybe the picus program is something you need to apply and get admitted to based on TT, sim reports and recommendations from other captains, and if there were enough LTCs, set aside a numbet of pairings each month. Its all wishful thinking but its my two cents. I have seen individuals at various other companies with PICUS programs take advantage of it successfully and would like to see the same here.
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Re: Schedules

#22 Post by Stan Darsh » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:25 pm

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Re: Schedules

#23 Post by Shady McSly » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:39 pm

God help the travelling public (and commuters) when these PICUS peeps really start upgrading...
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