Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

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234james
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by 234james »

http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... lion-pitch
After all canadian goverment making suitable decision....we hope they never change their opinion and provide the fund to this company up to they change their ways....
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Mostly Harmless
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by Mostly Harmless »

Since BBD still has not paid back it's last billion dollar loan (they still owe roughly 600 million and it's been around 20 years) I very much doubt any money loaned will ever be repaid.

However, I am writing because too many people are complaining about the auto bailout. I feel it should be pointed out that:

All of that bailout money was repaid
The government was given stocks in the company and had a say in the decisions made by that company in exchange for taxpayer money.
That those stocks paid dividends to the government
When those stocks were sold (a decision I disagreed with), they were sold at a profit.


You can whine about the auto bailout all you like but we not only got our money back we made a profit.

Do you think BBD can/will meet those same conditions?
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B208
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by B208 »

Gino Under wrote:I didn't say they were doing fantastic financially and don't need the financial investment. I said I don't think they are a failing company.
Pork barrel politics? Well, I"ll give you that. But tough times call for tough measures and you kiss whatever ass needs kissing.
(I don't make the rules)

If you're going to trash BBD or any other Canadian company, do some f**kin' reading.

Gino Under :drinkers:
I would say that ass is more in need of kicking than kissing.
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by Gino Under »

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." – Plato

We are all living under the rule of fools. Some things never change.

:partyman:
Gino Under
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by Gino Under »

Bombardier Loan A Smart Investment In Canada's Future

The federal government's announcement that it will provide $372.5 million to Bombardier in repayable loans is good news, and a smart investment in the future of this country and its people.

Criticisms of the deal are not only short-sighted, but just plain wrong.

The fact is, Canada needs to invest in aerospace if it wants to be a player in that industry -- an industry that provides good jobs across the country and is the basis of much of the research and development work done in Canada.

To say that Bombardier should be allowed to "crash and burn," as some have, is not only heartless for the thousands of workers and their families who would be left in desperate straits as a result, it is bad economic policy.

It is important to remember that Bombardier is one of Canada's largest employers with more than 24,000 workers across Canada -- and those jobs create another 40,800 jobs at and by the suppliers used by Bombardier, as well as through the spending of its well-paid workers.

The real job growth begins as production jobs are created to meet demand for the airliner.
Bombardier is also a world leader in research and innovation. Much of the money announced last week will go to the Global 7000 business aircraft program, scheduled to go into commercial service next year. The rest would go to the CSeries passenger jet, an innovative Bombardier aircraft that marks a major advance in aviation technology worldwide.

Bombardier's first entrance in the lucrative single-aisle commercial aircraft segment -- the CSeries -- puts it in the same market as the Boeing 737 and Airbus 319. The CSeries is an innovative airliner that uses 20 per cent less fuel than comparable jets. Supporting its development not only helps spur research in this country and create good jobs, but it contributes to developing a green economy.

With the CSeries now moving from design to production, the real job growth begins as production jobs are created to meet demand for the airliner, both at Bombardier and at suppliers across Canada.

Just getting to this stage has involved more than 200 suppliers in the CSeries project, creating jobs right across the country.

It's not just me saying this.

Karl Moore at McGill University's Desautels Faculty of Management told the CBC that "If you want to play in the big leagues in this industry -- different than many other industries -- you need government support." He said that the federal government's investment and earlier investments by the Quebec government are "what's necessary and appropriate in this particular industry."

A complaint from Brazil to the World Trade Organization over the federal loan is more bravado that substance. We need to remember that the Brazilian government provides preferential loans to Embraer, its country's airliner producer, as well as infrastructure concessions and defence contracts. It even holds a small stake in the company.

Brazil, like other jurisdictions with significant aerospace sectors, makes such investments for the same reason Canada announced its loan to Bombardier last week: it's a good investment in the future of the country and its economy.

Developing a new aircraft takes years and years of research and development. During that time, money flows out of the company and into the rest of the economy at a rapid rate. While that can be good for the suppliers and subcontractors getting some of that money, it can be a real drain on the company itself.

The work is necessary, however, if aerospace companies are going to continue to develop the products that will keep them competitive in the market, and creating jobs here at home. Investments such as last week's loan are meant to help companies such as Bombardier get over those humps.

It is beyond me how anyone could consider a repayable loan of $372.5 million anything but a great investment.
Once a new airliner is developed and put into production, it can create good jobs for decades as new jets keep rolling off the production line. It is then that we see the real return on the investment.

Consider that in 2015, the total taxes collected as a result of Bombardier operations were $1.6 billion, including business and property taxes, pay-roll contributions, social charges and income taxes paid by employees.

As well, Bombardier's operations accounted for 0.7 per cent of Canada's Gross Domestic product, or $12.4 billion, and the aerospace sector as a whole accounted for 10 per cent of all research and development spending in Canada in 2015.

With numbers like that, it is beyond me how anyone could consider a repayable loan of $372.5 million anything but a great investment.

Huffington Post Canada
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by teacher »

Letting Bombardier ‘crash and burn’ would be a disaster for Canada

Barrie McKenna

OTTAWA — The Globe and Mail
Published Sunday, Feb. 19, 2017 4:23PM EST
Last updated Sunday, Feb. 19, 2017 4:25PM EST


Condemnation was harsh and predictable when Ottawa wrote a big cheque this month to aircraft maker Bombardier Inc.
Critics derided the $372.5-million interest-free loan as another case of the federal government pandering to Quebec, and worse, handing a gift to two unworthy wealthy families who control the company.
That may well be the gut reaction of many Canadians.

But there is a parallel narrative here. The federal loan is about shoring up a financially weak company so it can continue to do all the sorts of things this country needs. Bombardier invests heavily in research and development, exports most of what it produces, has a highly skilled and well paid work force, and sustains a vast network of suppliers across the country.
Let’s debunk a few myths.

It simply isn’t true that the latest loan is solely about helping one province and one company. Two-thirds of the loan amount – nearly $250-million – is earmarked to support the costly development of Bombardier’s Global 7000 business jet, which will be built in Toronto. The remainder of the funds are for the C Series, a 100-to-160-seat commercial aircraft, assembled in Mirabel, Que.
It’s equally misleading to characterize the loan as a transfer from taxpayers to the Bombardier and Beaudoin families, who control the Montreal-based transportation company. Of course, they’ll benefit if Bombardier’s stock price recovers. But the immediate beneficiaries of the federal money are the company’s 21,000 Canadian workers and its network of more than 1,000 suppliers across the country, including 350 in Ontario.

Critics say the federal government should cut off Bombardier and let the company fail. Forget the business of creating and building aircraft in Canada. Just let it all go, in spite of the billions of dollars in federal and provincial assistance sunk into the company over the decades.

“Time to let Bombardier crash and burn,” was the headline on a column in iPolitics, an Ottawa-based political news website.
That would be a disaster for Canada’s aerospace industry.

Bombardier sits at the top of a production, design and engineering supply chain that spans the country, and the world.

The demise of Bombardier and the C Series is exactly what global heavyweights Boeing and Airbus want. These companies have tried for years to kill the aircraft company, because it’s muscling in on the fast-growing smaller end of a market dominated by the two best-selling airliners of all time, the Airbus A320 and Boeing 737. Both companies – recipients of gobs of government support in their home countries – are aggressively discounting and making their newest offerings more fuel efficient to lure customers away from the C Series.
Federal Infrastructure Minister Navdeep Bains highlighted the broader stakes for Canada at a recent ceremony in Montreal. “The long-term success of the aerospace sector . . . is very much connected to the success of Bombardier,” he said.

Imagine what Bombardier’s demise would mean. The company is the single largest corporate R&D spender in Canada. In 2015, it spent $2.3-billion on R&D – nearly four times the No. 2 spender, auto-parts maker Magna International Inc., at $639-million – according to an annual ranking by Research Infosource.
As an industry, aerospace companies account for 30 per cent of all manufacturing R&D in Canada. The sector exports 80 per cent of what it makes, and roughly 40 per cent of that beyond North America. A recent federal study says the industry directly and indirectly contributed $28-billion to GDP and 211,000 jobs in 2015.
There are few industries where Canada can claim to be a global player. Aerospace happens to be one of them. Canada is a leading supplier of regional aircraft, business jets, flight simulators, pilot training and aircraft engines.

The one consolation for the Trudeau government is that opposition to its Bombardier loan is highly polarized – inside and outside Quebec. Quebec nationalists say the money isn’t enough; politicians in the rest of the country argue it’s too generous. Even the federal Conservatives, who gave similar loans to the company while they were in power, are crying foul.
Strip away the political posturing, and the Liberals know they are on solid public-policy ground in helping Bombardier.
Doing nothing would be like rolling the dice.
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by Donald »

Well this makes me feel good about providing government bailout money to BBD:

http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... rnment-aid
MONTREAL — Bombardier’s senior executives saw their compensation rise by nearly 50 per cent last year at a time when it laid off thousands of workers, sought government aid and saw the first CSeries passenger jet take flight.

Total compensation for the Montreal-based company’s top five executives and board chairman Pierre Beaudoin was US$32.6 million in 2016, up from US$21.9 million the year before, according to a proxy circular ahead of its May 11 annual meeting.

CEO Alain Bellemare received US$9.5 million, up from US$6.4 million in 2015, including US$5.2 million in share and option-based awards and a US$1 million salary.

Bellemare’s annual bonus almost doubled to US$2.36 million.

Beaudoin’s compensation increased to US$5.25 million from US$3.85 million a year earlier.


In the regulatory filing, Bombardier attributed the higher compensation was due to a number of factors, including achieving profit and cash flow targets, securing CSeries orders and completing the first flight of the Global 7000 business jet.

Bellemare was also credited with achieving earnings at the high end of the company’s guidance, exceeding profit margin targets in all business segments and making significant progress on achieving the company’s plan to revive its fortunes.

Company spokesman Simon Letendre added that a large portion of the compensation is not guaranteed.

“For instance, 85 per cent of the compensation of the president and CEO is at risk and 28 per cent is comprised of stock options whose value depends on the appreciation of the Bombardier stock, something that would of course benefit all shareholders,” he wrote in an email.

Bombardier is in the midst of a five-year turnaround plan that has involved mass layoffs as it tries to regain its financial footing. It is eliminating 14,500 jobs around the world by the end of next year.



Shares of Bombardier (TSX:BBD.B) last year increased 61 per cent to $2.16 on the Toronto Stock Exchange. They gained one cent at $2.09 in Wednesday morning trading.

The company cut its loss to US$981 million last year, down from US$5.34 billion in 2015 despite lower revenues.

The federal government announced in February a $372.5-million loan for the CSeries and Global 7000 programs to be repaid over 15 years.

Last year, Bombardier received a US$1-billion investment for the CSeries program from the Quebec government in exchange for a 49.5 per cent stake. The company also sold a 30 per cent stake in its railway division to pension fund manager Caisse de depot for US$1.5 billion.

Bombardier also revealed Wednesday that former Quebec premier Daniel Johnson and ex-Bell and Nortel CEO Jean Monty are stepping down from its board of directors. They will be replaced by Camso CEO Pierre Marcouiller and Antony Tyler, former CEO of Cathay Pacific Airways and the International Air Transport Association.
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by Chris M »

bobcaygeon wrote:The Global 7000 is rewinged earlier Global Express. Look at it. It has the same shitty baggage door as an RJ/Challenger and finally has bigger windows than an RJ (the original didn't). The whole line of that aircraft is bought and paid for by the taxpayer when the government owned Canadair and spent a ridiculous amount of money getting the Challenger 600 (and it's POS Lycoming engines) to market.
I realize I'm quoting an older post, but the 7000 has remarkably little in common with it's Global/Challenger/RJ siblings. They share a look (by design, the 7000 almost got a C-Series style windshield early in its development but brand recognition was considered more valuable), and there are similarities in system and structural architecture, but that's the end of it. The parts commonality (not counting standard parts like hardware) between the 7000 and the GLEX is 2. Not 2%, 2 parts. The nose gear doors.

The baggage door on the 7000 is 5 feet tall and opens outward, just like the Q400 cabin doors. I can walk through it quite easily.
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by North Shore »

Donald wrote:Well this makes me feel good about providing government bailout money to BBD:

http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... rnment-aid
MONTREAL — Bombardier’s senior executives saw their compensation rise by nearly 50 per cent last year at a time when it laid off thousands of workers, sought government aid and saw the first CSeries passenger jet take flight.

Total compensation for the Montreal-based company’s top five executives and board chairman Pierre Beaudoin was US$32.6 million in 2016, up from US$21.9 million the year before, according to a proxy circular ahead of its May 11 annual meeting.

CEO Alain Bellemare received US$9.5 million, up from US$6.4 million in 2015, including US$5.2 million in share and option-based awards and a US$1 million salary.

Bellemare’s annual bonus almost doubled to US$2.36 million.

Beaudoin’s compensation increased to US$5.25 million from US$3.85 million a year earlier.


In the regulatory filing, Bombardier attributed the higher compensation was due to a number of factors, including achieving profit and cash flow targets, securing CSeries orders and completing the first flight of the Global 7000 business jet.

Bellemare was also credited with achieving earnings at the high end of the company’s guidance, exceeding profit margin targets in all business segments and making significant progress on achieving the company’s plan to revive its fortunes.

Company spokesman Simon Letendre added that a large portion of the compensation is not guaranteed.

“For instance, 85 per cent of the compensation of the president and CEO is at risk and 28 per cent is comprised of stock options whose value depends on the appreciation of the Bombardier stock, something that would of course benefit all shareholders,” he wrote in an email.

Bombardier is in the midst of a five-year turnaround plan that has involved mass layoffs as it tries to regain its financial footing. It is eliminating 14,500 jobs around the world by the end of next year.



Shares of Bombardier (TSX:BBD.B) last year increased 61 per cent to $2.16 on the Toronto Stock Exchange. They gained one cent at $2.09 in Wednesday morning trading.

The company cut its loss to US$981 million last year, down from US$5.34 billion in 2015 despite lower revenues.

The federal government announced in February a $372.5-million loan for the CSeries and Global 7000 programs to be repaid over 15 years.

Last year, Bombardier received a US$1-billion investment for the CSeries program from the Quebec government in exchange for a 49.5 per cent stake. The company also sold a 30 per cent stake in its railway division to pension fund manager Caisse de depot for US$1.5 billion.

Bombardier also revealed Wednesday that former Quebec premier Daniel Johnson and ex-Bell and Nortel CEO Jean Monty are stepping down from its board of directors. They will be replaced by Camso CEO Pierre Marcouiller and Antony Tyler, former CEO of Cathay Pacific Airways and the International Air Transport Association.
^ THIS!
Revenue targets? Bonuses?
How about they get both when the taxpayers are repaid?
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by '97 Tercel »

http://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/ottawa-onta ... -1.3347004

Auto makers getting more investment too...
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by Rookie50 »

Short predictions:

Billions more will be poured into BBD in years to come,

Millions of that will go to overpaid, unaccountable executives.

The train exec is getting 4 million. Anyone think that that division is doing a great job?

No company in western Canada will ever receive such a bailout,

Neither will I or any other small business, that creates jobs and tax dollars.
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Re: Canadian Govt to bail out Bombardier.

Post by watermeth »

Tony tyler, former cathay's ceo will for sure help sinking the boat while increasing board compensation. But what do I know...
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