Low time pilot opportunities abroad

[ipauli]

I just got my cpl with multi IFR and looking for a flying job. Does anyone know if there is
jobs abroad ? I'm willing to relocate.


Paul.

[HansDietrich]

Yup.

There's one I know of, in Pama, Burkina Faso, near the border of Benin and Togo, West Africa. Call the OPS manager there. His name is "Boly Yero" and he'll help you out. They have a few AN-2 you can fly around till you get your time up for that 777 left seat.


(I'm sorry, but your question warrants a response such as the one I posted above)

[North Shore]

Paul,

In just about every other country that you can think of, there is a lineup of local low-timers, such as you, with airline stars in their eyes. Put yourself in the shoes of an ops manager - who would you honestly hire? A foreigner, who is just there to steal jobs, screw women, and drink beer, who doesn't speak the local language or have cultural knowledge, and who doesn't know the approximate heading from Mississauga to Mississippi; or a local, who knows the above, and more, and is going to stick around and make a difference to the country?
My money is that you'd hire the local. Different story if you had some time or unique qualifications to offer.

On the flip side, you might find that it's easier to learn your craft (and, dont forget that with a bare-ass CPL/MIFR you are still learning) in a place where you'll have some support from family/friends and co-workers who have some inkling of where you're coming from.

Good Luck!

[jpilot77]

I'd add if you can't find a job right now in Canada you have no business flying for hire. There are dozens of job ads per week right now.

[ipauli]

Thanks for your replies. The first one was kinda creative.....

I'm new to this so I'm exploring my options. My dream is to fly in a t-shirt maybe somewhere in the Caribbean rather than in the arctic in a fur coat Ha ha ha.

Where would be a good start to apply for ones like myself ?
Does enyone know any companies where I can send resumes and actually have a chance of getting a job ?

[Cat Driver]

Actually the flight from Cotonou to the border of Niger is quite scenic.

However the poverty in Benin is mind warping.

[HansDietrich]

Thanks for your replies. The first one was kinda creative.....

I'm new to this so I'm exploring my options. My dream is to fly in a t-shirt maybe somewhere in the Caribbean rather than in the arctic in a fur coat Ha ha ha.

Where would be a good start to apply for ones like myself ?
Does enyone know any companies where I can send resumes and actually have a chance of getting a job ?

It seems to me that you have very little drive to find work and research companies. Internet and Google are a great place to start. I'm going to humor you, and since I have absolutely nothing better to do, I'll give you some advice.


1. What licenses do you have? (Canadian, EASA, FAA?)
Where do you want to work?


2. Start researching different companies that may hire low time pilots. Most likely you'll be looking for a non-flying, entry level job with a company to prove your character and work ethic. I did that and many others here did the same thing. No work is beneath you. I have a university degree and worked in a pretty respectable job, before deciding to become a pilot and I gave it all up so I can clean and load planes for a year to get my chance at that twin turbine F/O spot. At the end of my post, I will give you some links to do this research

3. Write a good (single page) resume and cover letter and find someone willing to give you a reference.

4. Start sending resumes

5. You can also visit different companies and "knock on doors", but my experience is that most Chief Pilots don't like that.

6. It's good to have friends in the industry that can recommend you

7. Last but not least, be open minded and remember that there are many, many, many other pilots with the same experience as you. Your competition is fierce, so do something to set you above everyone else.

Okay, here are the links I promised you:

Pilot Career Center (You'll find lots of jobs from all over the world there)
https://www.pilotcareercenter.com/

Aviation Job Ads (Free), here on AvCanada

Good luck chap!

[HansDietrich]

Also:

The posts above regarding opportunities abroad are very relevant. Most countries / airlines will not hire you if you: (I like my point form replies)

1. Are a citizen of that country (or hold their passport)
2. Speak the local language
3. Have the appropriate licenses for that country (Example: to fly in Poland, you need an EASA license. To fly in Australia you need a CASA license, etc)
4. Have the right to work in that country

If you meet all those requirements, you still have to go through their selection process.

I have a friend of mine who wanted to go back to Europe and fly in his native country. He had the right to work there, had the licenses, speaks the language, but one of the stories he told me is that the person in charge of hiring pilots at that particular operator told him "Why should I hire you? I know that as soon as you get your hours up, you'll end up going back to Canada." So you see? what guys said above is 100% correct. They rather hire someone that has ties and roots planted in that country, city, etc. They don't want someone that will come, then leave.

Of course, that is different when you bring something to the table: experience, etc.

[Black_Tusk]

I know someone who got a job flying an ATR in Honduras for a big airline with 300ish hours. But he also spoke the language and family was from there, so that might have helped.

[Just another canuck]

…

[BCnomad]

The shitty thing about aviation is that everyone wants to you to have 500 hours and then 1000 hours and then 1500 oh and then tail dragger time and then float time and then aztec or navajo and or some other variant. There is always some sort of BS reason for someone not to hire you and to make you work for min wage while you rent their apartment at their base of operations..... It goes on and on.

If you can get 500-1000 hours on anything... then try to get out of the general aviation cesspool and find your way into a 705 operation asap... You will bypass years of frustration. Unless of course you want to fly floats or small twins or what have you - All good in my opinion - different strokes etc....

How does one do that. Well you are either super charming and lucky and someone throws you into an FO 705 aircraft when you least expect it or you have to work hard be patient and keep an eye out for the next opportunity.

One can even buy a type rating ( Im sure a few old school types will be on my case for that suggestion) BUT it is what most pilots (europe) if not all pilots do once they get their license. They pay for a type rating on a Dash8 or 737 or airbus... In Canada we are a bit behind the times when it comes to that...

The KEY to most of this is a good base of experience (1000 hours) and then move onto a large turbo prop or jet if you can... the sooner you can do that the better... If in fact that is what you want to do.?.?.!

In regards to working overseas: If you only have a Canadian passport and ATPL from Canada, then having a type rating and being a captain on type will give you more leverage than being an FO. Most countries will higher type rated captains but not FOs. FOs are mostly hired within the respective country. Having an FAA ATPL and or EASA lic will also improve your chances. FAA being easier to obtain versus the EASA lic. Although not as easy as it use to be.

I will not sugar coat this career - It is a pain in the ass for the first 1000 hours, but once you get a break and find what it is you want.. It can be rewarding. Keep an open mind - figure out what makes it exciting and fun for you - follow that ... Don't chase the shiny object like most pilots do...

1. Are a citizen of that country (or hold their passport)
Not always the case
2. Speak the local language
Not true
3. Have the appropriate licenses for that country (Example: to fly in Poland, you need an EASA license. To fly in Australia you need a CASA license, etc)
Depends where you go - Europe = EASA, Africa = validation or write a local air law.... all depends.
4. Have the right to work in that country
Depends again on the country.

Also most of the flying stuff overseas depends on Supply and Demand. If they need you, they will make it work... IF there is a recession or the locals do not want you there, then no job for you...


Cheers

[POPANDCHIPS]

One can even buy a type rating ( Im sure a few old school types will be on my case for that suggestion) BUT it is what most pilots (europe) if not all pilots do once they get their license. They pay for a type rating on a Dash8 or 737 or airbus... In Canada we are a bit behind the times when it comes to that...

If you think Canada is "behind the times" because our pilots don't subsidize airlines by paying for our own training, I would hate to see what your idea of the future looks like!

Otherwise a solid post.

[ipauli]

Thanks for the amazing feedback and ideas.
I do understand about first 500, 1000, 1500 etc. I'm an ambitious 46 year old and I know I'll get to the 1500tt and beyond. But now I don't want to waste time working on the ramp for 2 years in the arctic before they may let me sit in a Cessna. I'm open to working abroad or up north to build hours and gain operational experience so I can fly something bigger and faster later.

For now I'm looking forward to getting that first flying job wherever it may be to get the firs 500 hours, after that I'll take next step.

I just don't have experience looking for a job in this very unique industry. Sounds like everyone is talking about a road trip but where ? I'm willing to relocate anywhere for that first 500 or 1500 hours.

[HansDietrich]

Thanks for the amazing feedback and ideas.
I do understand about first 500, 1000, 1500 etc. I'm an ambitious 46 year old and I know I'll get to the 1500tt and beyond. But now I don't want to waste time working on the ramp for 2 years in the arctic before they may let me sit in a Cessna. I'm open to working abroad or up north to build hours and gain operational experience so I can fly something bigger and faster later.

For now I'm looking forward to getting that first flying job wherever it may be to get the firs 500 hours, after that I'll take next step.

I just don't have experience looking for a job in this very unique industry. Sounds like everyone is talking about a road trip but where ? I'm willing to relocate anywhere for that first 500 or 1500 hours.

Well, a lot of us had to "waste our time working ramp in the arctic". I understand not wanting to do it, but this is proves you're not that "ambitious". You just want the easy way and are not willing to do "anything" to get that first flying job. No worries, there will be others willing to do it and you may be left behind. Remember, you have a lot of competition. It's your choice in the end what you want to do, but... I'd jump on any opportunity to get into that aircraft and start logging hours...

That's just me... Good luck.

[BCnomad]

Interesting... At 45 - maybe he is smarter not to want to take it up the ass like everyone else has since day one. This is the only industry that gets you to spend a fortune for your license so that you can spend it on the ramp or dock for 2 years just to prove you might want to be a pilot. Just because this has been the practice since pioneer days, does not mean we have to follow it.

The best part is that these outfits know that pilots will do anything to get that first 500 hours. Therefore, the operators abuse it so they can use a guy/girl for 2 years and then maybe then they might put you in the seat of a 180 - give me a break... It will probably never change in Canada since there is so much pride from the previously abused.

The question one should be asking is why! Why should a new pilot fresh out of school spend up to 2 years humping shit around. Does this prove that one can fly an aircraft or that one can listen to some jerk bark orders...

If you can get a job in the right seat or the left seat and don't have to through that BS - all the power to you... Be warned though. The attitude expressed in the previous post is what you will be up against plus all the other wanna Bs that will take anything for nothing.. Welcome to Aviation...

[Qdrivermann]

That's a great outlook BCnomad! I agree - a guy/gal should get out and make their career happen, not wait around holding out for a typerating on the forklift or coffee machine as you said so correctly: humping shit around!! I can remember being told to go see Frank Kellner back in day only to be told by him how the industry works... at least he was honest... after years on the ramp I *might* get a crack at the right seat of the new Caravans - swamping on the Caravan freighter... I thanked him for his time and for telling me straight how it is and I told him I'm worth more than that - I had already done jobs like that in order to pay for my training... two years later I was a Captain on a DHC-6 in an IFR scheduled airline service making adequate coin. If you want it bad enough - you'll find something - and don't sell yourself short of what you think you are worth... I met a lot of employers who were relieved when I told them I wouldn't work for what they were offering... some showed me the door and others gave me the job. I've never burned a bridge and still have good relationships with all my previous employers. Sometimes going outside of Canada is not only an adventure but it illuminates what is wrong with the industry back home in Canada. I once had a telephone interview with a big Calgary based charter company - during the interview I had to listen to the assistant chief pilot who repeatedly asked how I managed what was all on my resume - he obviously had done a thourough background check - no worries - all the power to him - but he kept telling me he had waited two years on the ramp before driving the forklift, then moved over to aircraft cleaning and fuelling and then to the office and finally after what I calculated to be around four to five years he got his big break on the Navaho in the right seat... and this assistant chief pilot didn't think I 'deserved' the job because I hadn't paid my dues and been bled out like him... I was surprised at how aggresive he was and how focused he was on determining if I had bled as much as him and when he determined I hadn't - he got angry - first towards me but I brushed it off because deep down he felt stupid because he had bought 100% into the Canadian - 'pay your dues' attitude... he felt stupid and used and taken for a fool as he climbed the ladder up to the King Air... In contrast, when I meet young talent I promote them and mentor them as much as I can because the following generations should have it easier then we did and they should be benefitting from the path we've all paved... not having to bleed out more than us so we can feel better about ourselves because some amongst us got bent over the barrell several times!! Change the system, accept the system or leave the system - I choose to leave the system and damn happy I did; humping shit waiting for a chance to maybe get to sit in an aircraft to eventually swamp the freight at destination is nothing to aspire to when trying to establish a profesional career as a pilot! Do you see any other professionals such as Dentists or Doctors humping shit in the mail room while waiting it out to see if they'll get a spot in the next residency course?? No - we don't see that do we - so, why do we see it in Canadian aviation?? Change the system in Canada and we will all benefit!!

[HansDietrich]

Interesting... At 45 - maybe he is smarter not to want to take it up the ass like everyone else has since day one. This is the only industry that gets you to spend a fortune for your license so that you can spend it on the ramp or dock for 2 years just to prove you might want to be a pilot. Just because this has been the practice since pioneer days, does not mean we have to follow it.

The best part is that these outfits know that pilots will do anything to get that first 500 hours. Therefore, the operators abuse it so they can use a guy/girl for 2 years and then maybe then they might put you in the seat of a 180 - give me a break... It will probably never change in Canada since there is so much pride from the previously abused.

The question one should be asking is why! Why should a new pilot fresh out of school spend up to 2 years humping shit around. Does this prove that one can fly an aircraft or that one can listen to some jerk bark orders...

If you can get a job in the right seat or the left seat and don't have to through that BS - all the power to you... Be warned though. The attitude expressed in the previous post is what you will be up against plus all the other wanna Bs that will take anything for nothing.. Welcome to Aviation...

Are we talking about reality here, or ideal situations? What, you think I didn't want to go fly a 737 with 200 hrs? You think I wanted to go out every day into -40 to load planes, to clean up after passengers that cared very little about their government paid aircraft? I was saying that considering the competition, he has to be willing to do a little more. The thread starer has nothing to offer that hundreds of others don't have.

[Black_Tusk]

OP; don't worry about all the nay sayers on here. If you are motivated enough I'm sure you'll find a flying job. Just gotta get out there, shake hands, network and sell yourself.

Just because people here are justifying ramp jobs doesn't mean everyone has to do it. I know many new pilots who have found flying jobs right out of school in the last year. Times are changing and companies will either go with it or run out of people willing to do these ramp jobs. Don't sit chucking bags for 2 years at Summit or Tindi when you can have an ATPL in the same amount of time. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last.

[mixturerich]

I'll say it again, there aren't enough direct flying jobs out of school to go around. Not to mention, not everyone has that outgoing, "winner personality", and luck on their side. 90% of my friends ramped for 6 months - 2 years and it's worked out well. It's not useless. It builds your work ethic, character, and is extremely humbling. You'll be part of a huge group of pilots that can say that they did it too. Go up north and you'll have plenty of amazing stories, experiences, and friends because of it. It's not a race to the airlines. The flying in northern Canada is the funnest flying you'll get to do in your career - ask any old airline dog who flew in the bush. You'll have the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. That being said...make sure you ask around, reach out to people outside of avcanada, and make sure you avoid some particular companies. Pilot in waiting times are coming down, but make sure you do your research, and do the road trip first if you can afford it. And for god's sake, make sure you have a good handshake. Good luck.

[HansDietrich]

OP; don't worry about all the nay sayers on here. If you are motivated enough I'm sure you'll find a flying job. Just gotta get out there, shake hands, network and sell yourself.

Just because people here are justifying ramp jobs doesn't mean everyone has to do it. I know many new pilots who have found flying jobs right out of school in the last year. Times are changing and companies will either go with it or run out of people willing to do these ramp jobs. Don't sit chucking bags for 2 years at Summit or Tindi when you can have an ATPL in the same amount of time. You wouldn't be the first and you won't be the last.

Black_Tusk,

I have a lot of respect for you. I mean it sir.

Flying in the North is certainly a life changing experience and I believe pilots that come out of there are better because of it. I've done it, my friends have done it and if I had to hire someone, I would hire an Northern "bush" pilot over anyone with an ATPL and 1500 hrs PIC flying in the practice area. (No offence to instructors. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have a lot of respect for flight instructors, but I don't think that experience is worthy of an ATPL. Instructor career? Absolutely)

Flying in the Arctic may not make you a better pilot, but being a captain on a turbine in the Arctic, def. will! PIC experience on multi crew, IFR airplanes is must in my opinion.