North Korean issues

[ehbuddy]

It is starting to get quite tense. If the US strikes North Korea will we anticipate North American Airspace being shut down much the same as it did on 9-11? My thoughts are the US Military are going to be moving a lot of airplanes and they may want to clear the airspace for them. Thoughts?

[Cat Driver]

We have never seen a situation this bizzare, it is impossible to predict what that nut case in North Korea might do.

So you could be correct in your thoughts.

[AuxBatOn]

It is starting to get quite tense. If the US strikes North Korea will we anticipate North American Airspace being shut down much the same as it did on 9-11? My thoughts are the US Military are going to be moving a lot of airplanes and they may want to clear the airspace for them. Thoughts?

The airspace didn't have to be shutdown for The Gulf War. There is a limited amount of tankers that can drag fighters. If it happens, it will not be a one-day thing.

There is already a sizeable force in South Korea and Japan, something that didn't exist in the Middle East in August 1990.

[photofly]

We have never seen a situation this bizzare, it is impossible to predict what that nut case in North Korea might do.

So you could be correct in your thoughts.

Not to mention that nut case in the White House.

[Cat Driver]

I am at a loss to try and figure out just what Trump really is, or what he will do because he is so inconsistent.

The really uncomfortable part of this situation is we have him as the president and with that goes the power of the president.

When I say we have it is because if the USA gets into a large scale wide war we will be in real bad shape because of our relationship with the USA.

[Bacunayagua]

Grab your popcorn boys! These guys are going to figure out international politics and American war doctrine.

[Zaibatsu]

The US and allies fought North Korea to a stalemate 60 years ago with a nuclear advantage. Every president up to now has been smart enough to stay a comfortable distance away. Even the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld war mongers didn't dare do anything when the DPRK became a nuclear power in 2006--they already had their little war to chase phantom WMDs and gain oil wealth in the Middle East.

[Rockie]

Two sociopathic 5 year olds threatening each other and playing brinkmanship is nothing new in a school yard. This time one controls the US military and doesn't give a s**t what Congress or anybody else thinks, and the other controls everything inside his borders.

If you aren't alarmed by the real danger this world is in right now you're not paying attention.

[pelmet]

I do urge people not to turn this into a political thread as we have seen in the past with their personal insults to forward their personal political views that inevitably results in the thread being locked. Please stick to how it relates to aviation.

Those who have flown through or near North Korean airspace on a regular basis are familiar with the GPS outage notams and occasional notam about the possibility of a missile launch. How far out into the Pacific this could affect, I am not sure but quite possibly, on the other side of Japan.

[North Shore]

I do urge people not to turn this into a political thread as we have seen in the past with their personal insults to forward their personal political views that inevitably results in the thread being locked. Please stick to how it relates to aviation.

Those who have flown through or near North Korean airspace on a regular basis are familiar with the GPS outage notams and occasional notam about the possibility of a missile launch. How far out into the Pacific this could affect, I am not sure but quite possibly, on the other side of Japan.

Yes! to the first paragraph.

Are you actually allowed to fly through DPRK airspace? I've been told that some of the approach plates going into Seoul have strict black 'Do Not Fly North Of This Line' markings on them.

[CL-Skadoo!]

I do urge people not to turn this into a political thread as we have seen in the past with their personal insults to forward their personal political views that inevitably results in the thread being locked. Please stick to how it relates to aviation.

Those who have flown through or near North Korean airspace on a regular basis are familiar with the GPS outage notams and occasional notam about the possibility of a missile launch. How far out into the Pacific this could affect, I am not sure but quite possibly, on the other side of Japan.

Yes! to the first paragraph.

Are you actually allowed to fly through DPRK airspace? I've been told that some of the approach plates going into Seoul have strict black 'Do Not Fly North Of This Line' markings on them.

Haven't been through that part of the world in a few years but,
"Avoid penetration" (SFC to Unlimited) is what I recall on my Jepps. This also mirrors my mindset every year when I do my medical

[Eric Janson]

The US and allies fought North Korea to a stalemate 60 years ago with a nuclear advantage. Every president up to now has been smart enough to stay a comfortable distance away. Even the Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld war mongers didn't dare do anything when the DPRK became a nuclear power in 2006--they already had their little war to chase phantom WMDs and gain oil wealth in the Middle East.

The issue now is that North Korea is close to developing rockets (ICBMs) that can reach Hawaii and the US West coast. That changes the threat level posed by North Korea considerably.

[Rockie]

How exactly do you keep war not political when it is caused by a failure of diplomacy? What will happen if Trump decides his newfound toys would work well obliterating NK's missile and nuclear capability? What if they're hardened beyond what a MOAB can deal with and he lobs a small tactical nuke to take care of it? What if NK decides to shell Soeul or an American base in retaliation?

How is this not political?

[Siddley Hawker]

Somebody oughta tell Young Fat Wun that his haircut makes his head look like a whorehouse doorknob.

[AuxBatOn]

Rockie,

This thread was about the disruption in air traffic due to a potential war. Not the war itself. Politics really have nothing to do with the subject ...

[The Raven]

Somebody oughta tell Young Fat Wun that his haircut makes his head look like a whorehouse doorknob.

And you would know that because....?

[Rockie]

Rockie,

This thread was about the disruption in air traffic due to a potential war. Not the war itself. Politics really have nothing to do with the subject ...

Oh sorry, my mistake. By all means continue the discussion about how two deranged apes bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war might affect your schedule.

[Inverted2]

Rockie,

This thread was about the disruption in air traffic due to a potential war. Not the war itself. Politics really have nothing to do with the subject ...

Oh sorry, my mistake. By all means continue the discussion about how two deranged apes bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war might affect your schedule.

Go back to your fallout shelter.

[confusedalot]

ummm....does anybody on this threat seriously think north korea will engage in a pissing contest with...

Japan, China, South Korea, USA?

Is it me, thinking that they are kiddies looking for attention, or, are they psychotics with zero sense of the real world?

I vote for the kiddie attention scenario. I would take three days tops to conquer the country.

[goingnowherefast]

If N. Korea launches a single nuke at the US, their entire country will get blown off the map. It will be come an radioactive wasteland for the next 1000 years.

It's nuclear deterrence, but North Korea doesn't have the capability for "mutually assured destruction", Cold War style.

On the other hand, Russia and China would denounce N. Korea should they launch an attack. Add that to the US military and the rest of NATO and the UN, It would be the entire world against North Korea. Wouldn't even need nukes to overrun the country.

[Cat Driver]

I vote for the kiddie attention scenario. I would take three days tops to conquer the country.

But first they have to beat them in the war that started in the 1950's, because that war has lasted a bit longer than three days.

[AuxBatOn]

I don't think the first target would be the USA but South Korea and Japan. I bet this is the main reason the US did not kick the door yet: assuring they can destroy any ICBM/artillery within range of South Korea/Japan before they can use it, which is a fairly difficult proposition given their air defenses and means of concealing they weapons.

[confusedalot]

I vote for the kiddie attention scenario. I would take three days tops to conquer the country.

But first they have to beat them in the war that started in the 1950's, because that war has lasted a bit longer than three days.

Good point. tough people. But still, would they be that knuckleheaded to even get into this? Maybe yes, many no. God help us if the answer is maybe yes. More blood on the street for no reason.

[CpnCrunch]

Armchair speculation:

South Korea has a THAAD installation, and Japan is considering it, so if NK fires any nukes it will likely do them more diplomatic damage than any harm to anyone else. It seems unlikely that anything would reach Hawaii, but I imagine the USA has THAAD there too just in case.

I don't think the USA is in the habit of mutually assured destruction, although with Trump you never know. More likely would be pounding all of NK's military installations into dust.

If NK does do anything dumb, China will drop their support for them, and the subsequent war will likely take a very different course to the first Korean war.

[complexintentions]

We routinely fly through Pyongyang FIR on Europe and North America routings, transiting from Khabarovsk FIR. Perhaps that's changed, my last such flight was about a month ago. I've got a FRA trip on Friday I'll see what they file us on. It certainly hasn't been terribly exciting lol.

I seriously doubt they will shut any North American airspace, let alone the entire thing. But then I've never been one to get too fussed about things I can't affect.