Westjet to start ultra low cost carrier

[bigEh]

I assume anyone complaining about a low cost airline never buys anything from Walmart, Amazon, Best Buy etc....The general public wants to pay less. For everything. And fair enough. But the byproduct of that is cutting wages. Retail jobs have taken a nose dive in pay, benefits and working conditions. So if you care about "the race to the bottom" anyone complaining about this new ULCC just shouldn't fly it. And should convince their friends and family to not fly it. And then stop buying from big business and go out and support your local shop owner. And never buy anything unless the workers are paid a fair wage. Your cost of living will go up but you will have made a difference.
My point is, this is the world we live in. People want to pay less. And if someone can create a service that does just that, then people will pay less.

[rookiepilot]

No business model in history has ever succeeded on price alone -- in the very long run.

Someone can always undercut you and there is zero loyalty.

Someone will figure that out in the airline world, too.

I will not fly certain airlines at any price -- like Sunwing, Ryanair, Spirit. I suggest voting with your wallet to communicate to these models; what time and aggravation are worth. (Sadly, not much it seems).

Anyway, this is good news and I'm not complaining. It will force the overall mainline pricing down. There is not enough competition in Canada and we should open skies to allow foreign competitors in, if a reciprocal can be reached. I highly doubt AC and WJ would want that though.

[Koalemos]

I assume anyone complaining about a low cost airline never buys anything from Walmart, Amazon, Best Buy etc....The general public wants to pay less. For everything. And fair enough. But the byproduct of that is cutting wages. Retail jobs have taken a nose dive in pay, benefits and working conditions. So if you care about "the race to the bottom" anyone complaining about this new ULCC just shouldn't fly it. And should convince their friends and family to not fly it. And then stop buying from big business and go out and support your local shop owner. And never buy anything unless the workers are paid a fair wage. Your cost of living will go up but you will have made a difference.
My point is, this is the world we live in. People want to pay less. And if someone can create a service that does just that, then people will pay less.

I buy from Amazon, and will complain anyways. The drawbacks of online, warehouse style companies (or anything big business that pays crap) is an entirely different can of worms

You do make a good point, this practice is in a lot of industries, and is a byproduct of a free market. That can be good and bad, there will always be winners and losers. Given that ticket prices are the lowest they have ever been (adjusted for inflation), the savings will undoubtedly come from labour (not sure what else they can cut out from service, at this point). In this case, WestJet's ULCC employees will be on the losing side.

[Zaibatsu]

Nothing is sacred.

http://pointsfromthepacific.boardingare ... n-economy/

[cap41]

People bitch about service, they also bitch about their wages and working conditions. Last time I checked no one was forcing you to do the job you do. No one is forcing you to work for XXX company. If you don't like it, move onto the next one. Its a free market ind as passengers and pilots.

[rookiepilot]

People bitch about service, they also bitch about their wages and working conditions. Last time I checked no one was forcing you to do the job you do. No one is forcing you to work for XXX company. If you don't like it, move onto the next one. Its a free market ind as passengers and pilots.

+1

[ditar]

I wonder if it's any coincidence that this was announced the same day WestJet pilots filed with the CIRB to hold an election for representation by ALPA.

[Stoptheworld]

Just an alternative (perhaps conspiracy) theory: Westjet, by launching a separate brand, may be also trying to avoid Competition Bureau complaints from ULCC entrants when they try to smear them into the runway by cutting fares. They will be able to claim a separate cost structure from the mainline and further claim that the routes that they are facing competition from ULCC entrants on are not being subsidized by routes where there is no such competition.

[dash8dave]

I just went and compared ticket prices from YYZ to YYC round trip tickets leaving on the same day. Friday May 26 with a return date of June 02. I gave a Torontonian a 2 week vacation in YYC.

Greyhound = $487.50
WestJet = 484.21

Greyhound 2 days 6hours/One way. (54 hours, but the coach does have washrooms onboard and wifi, no food included and many, many, many stops along the way to be able to get some).
WestJet 4hours 11 minutes Westbound (headwind flight).

Try pricing this for yourselves.

I'm getting tired of people saying its too expensive to fly. We need to make it cheaper. Waaah!!! I don't want to pay $400 to get to/from the centre of the universe.

I am totally against lowering pilot/cabin crew/maintenance/dispatchers wages to lower the ticket price.

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

[Old fella]

I wonder how much it'll cost to use the toilet.

There I sat broken hearted
Paid my toonie and only farted
Next time around, I took my chance
Kept my toonie, and shit my pants

[AirSprint HR]

I had a research paper on Spirit Airlines published a few years ago. I share it here for the sole reason that there are many questions about how the ULCC model works and it may answer a few for some people. I offer no opinion on whether this is good or bad, and obviously this has nothing to do with AirSprint.

http://commons.erau.edu/cgi/viewcontent ... text=jaaer

James

[KenoraPilot]

Union busting......but I'll just kick back, crack a beer and warm my hands on the flames of Westjets moral and culture.....(just my 2 cents)

[cap41]

I am totally against lowering pilot/cabin crew/maintenance/dispatchers wages to lower the ticket price.

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

If you don't like the enviroment get the F out. again, no one is forcing you to work in any of these positions. Your tired of people complaining about the cost of flying. I'm tired of pilots complaining about the cost of living in YYZ. I have those same struggles concerning cost of living. So do the other 5 million people in the GTA. Again, find a job that pays you enough to thrive and survive whether in aviation or not. 100,000s of graduates find work work in a field other than their major. Why can't you, if you cannot survive on your pilots wage.

[PROC_HDG]

I am totally against lowering pilot/cabin crew/maintenance/dispatchers wages to lower the ticket price.

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

If you don't like the enviroment get the F out. again, no one is forcing you to work in any of these positions. Your tired of people complaining about the cost of flying. I'm tired of pilots complaining about the cost of living in YYZ. I have those same struggles concerning cost of living. So do the other 5 million people in the GTA. Again, find a job that pays you enough to thrive and survive whether in aviation or not. 100,000s of graduates find work work in a field other than their major. Why can't you, if you cannot survive on your pilots wage.

The problem is, if everyone has this attitude and nobody takes a stand, there will soon be no good jobs left to leave to. WAWCON at the major carriers has a lasting effect on every job in the industry.

PROC_HDG

[True North]

I am totally against lowering pilot/cabin crew/maintenance/dispatchers wages to lower the ticket price.

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

If you don't like the enviroment get the F out. again, no one is forcing you to work in any of these positions. Your tired of people complaining about the cost of flying. I'm tired of pilots complaining about the cost of living in YYZ. I have those same struggles concerning cost of living. So do the other 5 million people in the GTA. Again, find a job that pays you enough to thrive and survive whether in aviation or not. 100,000s of graduates find work work in a field other than their major. Why can't you, if you cannot survive on your pilots wage.

I believe you entirely missed the point.

And that's too bad because it was a very good one.

[Rowdy]

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

This. Right. Here.

You want to lower airframes? Get the 'big heads' hands out of the cookie jar. That includes the kickbacks to the governing bodies and the ridiculously high fees for airports(AIF's) and nav. We don't need another jade sculpture at YVR...

[47north]

We are all slamming WestJet for their ultra low cost carrier and how it may affect the pilots and the employees but we must not forget that all this is driven by the consumers.

It's not what I want, as one consumer.. I'm flying to Asia twice this year, and for the first time I've ditched AC and am flying Cathay. AC with their HD 777 went over my personal line. Lotta horrible reviews too. When air travel slows with the economy, lets see how well that strategy works.

Won't catch me on Rouge or WJ's product if I can help it, and I'll gladly give my money to foreign carriers. All about the space for me.

I totally agree the AC HD 777 is brutal. Unfortunately it looks like your choices will be limited soon:

https://thepointsguy.com/2017/03/cathay ... s-economy/

[gonnabeapilot]

I don't think the conversation should be about whether Canadian consumers might benefit from an ULCC but whether or not Westjet should be the one to do it?? Westjet is a profitable and growing company facing next to no competition in the ULCC sector. What is the motivation for employees to make wage concessions to enable Westjet to start an ULCC?? Bragging rights about having a bit more market share? Seeing an extra $25 on their profit share cheque??

Southwest was supposed to be what Westjet is modeled after and they seem perfectly content being a 737 low-cost carrier that pays industry leading wages. As long as the profits keep rolling in, why change? Growth for the sake of growth? Meanwhile we see Westjet expanding into areas like regional flying requiring concessions on the backs of their employees and dragging down the rest of the industry as they do it. Face it Westjetters, you'll never be Air Canada... and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with being a 100+ aircraft airline with a North American route structure. There's everything wrong with being an employee group at a profitable company that jumps at the chance to lower working conditions just so management can brag about growing the airline. Stop being the drunk guy at the bar with short man syndrome and picking fights that don't exist just so you can brag to your buddies.

[cap41]

I am totally against lowering pilot/cabin crew/maintenance/dispatchers wages to lower the ticket price.

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

If you don't like the enviroment get the F out. again, no one is forcing you to work in any of these positions. Your tired of people complaining about the cost of flying. I'm tired of pilots complaining about the cost of living in YYZ. I have those same struggles concerning cost of living. So do the other 5 million people in the GTA. Again, find a job that pays you enough to thrive and survive whether in aviation or not. 100,000s of graduates find work work in a field other than their major. Why can't you, if you cannot survive on your pilots wage.

I believe you entirely missed the point.

And that's too bad because it was a very good one.

I may have missed the point. But, again, go get that "top" job and change things. We/you are employees. Don't like your management ? don't like the business model? maybe time to move on. Bitching never solves an issue. The problem is some pilots think that they are highly specialized. They are to an extent. However there are thousands of other pilots that will take the job if you don't want, or don't like it. That maybe a sad commentary on the state of aviation. Its like most industries you are highly trained highly educated. However so are many many others.

[dash8dave]

I am totally against lowering pilot/cabin crew/maintenance/dispatchers wages to lower the ticket price.

The biggest cuts have to come from the top.

If you don't like the enviroment get the F out. again, no one is forcing you to work in any of these positions. Your tired of people complaining about the cost of flying. I'm tired of pilots complaining about the cost of living in YYZ. I have those same struggles concerning cost of living. So do the other 5 million people in the GTA. Again, find a job that pays you enough to thrive and survive whether in aviation or not. 100,000s of graduates find work work in a field other than their major. Why can't you, if you cannot survive on your pilots wage.

Whoaaa cap41. I must have said my point incorrectly. I wasn't complaining about living in YYZ and its cost, I was saying that senior management in the ivory towers need to make compensations too. If pilots and mtce and dispatch and cabin crews are required to take the hit then so must the BOD's. The share holders of those companies also need to be told you aren't getting xx% return on your money this year you will only get x as we need to re-invest into the company and pay the employees more.

I'm sorry that I didn't make myself clear.