The Air Canada OTS thread

Discuss topics relating to Air Canada.

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your flight time ?

500+ PIC JET
37
4%
500+ PIC JET 2 CREW
101
10%
500+ PIC TURBOPROP 2 CREW
154
16%
1000+ F/O JET/TURBOPROP 2 CREW
160
17%
Total Time 1500/2000
50
5%
2000/3000
106
11%
3000/ More
361
37%
 
Total votes: 969

garfield
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by garfield »

Do you think PML will go lower than 80% eventually? I guess the feeders might run out of pilots in a foreseeable future.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by groundpilot »

There are no more planned PIT courses.

However, they should resume this fall. Wait and see!
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

co-joe wrote:Can I just ask for a quick review of how the hiring process is going?

My understanding is that the goal is to train 30 pilots a month but that they are so far only able to train 24 pilots a month, and the PML guarantees 80% are from ACE carriers, so basically 4.8 people a month come from the pool of already interviewed candidates from the 2016 invitations.

Am I in the ballpark? Anybody know how deep the pool is from the 2016 invites?
I don't know how deep the pool is, it seems those with 2 years in an express carrier are getting hired...

I count over 160 new hires so far in 2017. Looks like more than 30/month...

non-express hires appear to be mostly coming out of military, transat or westjet.
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co-joe
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by co-joe »

Thanks for the reply. So 32 per month, max by contract 6.4 OTS. Good to know what the chance of making it to this group is. :) Being realistic, not trying to come across as cynical, just nice to know where the goal posts are today you know.

groundpilot wrote:There are no more planned PIT courses.

However, they should resume this fall. Wait and see!
What's a PIT course?
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altiplano
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by altiplano »

Pilot Indoctrination Training.I think...

It's the 2 week new hire course before you go on to type training...
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JBI
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by JBI »

Apologies if this was posted before, does anyone know the exact wording of the PML with respect to hiring from AC Express carriers?

-80% exactly (per class or over the course of a certain time period)?
-UP TO 80%?
-MINIMUM 80%?

Not that it matters too much, just something I'm not sure about.
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Rowdy
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Rowdy »

'Air Canada's objective is to recruit up to 80% of its pilot requirement from its CPA Carriers, subject always to the applicant meeting the Air Canada qualifications and successfully passing the Air Canada selection process.'

And

'The Pilot Mobility Arrangement will be implemented so as to seek to hire a proportional number of pilots from each CPA Carrier pursuant to its terms subject to a sufficient number of qualified pilots passing the Air Canada hiring process.'

Right from the Company Memo.
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Rowdy
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Rowdy »

altiplano wrote:
non-express hires appear to be mostly coming out of military, transat or westjet.
I believe that will only ramp up...
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JBI
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by JBI »

Rowdy wrote:'Air Canada's objective is to recruit up to 80% of its pilot requirement from its CPA Carriers, subject always to the applicant meeting the Air Canada qualifications and successfully passing the Air Canada selection process.'
Thanks for the info! It sounds like AC has done a very good job of keeping to that 80%. However, with that language it seems like they have given themselves some leeway to hire more OTS if necessary.
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gtanorth
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by gtanorth »

JBI wrote:
Rowdy wrote:'Air Canada's objective is to recruit up to 80% of its pilot requirement from its CPA Carriers, subject always to the applicant meeting the Air Canada qualifications and successfully passing the Air Canada selection process.'
Thanks for the info! It sounds like AC has done a very good job of keeping to that 80%. However, with that language it seems like they have given themselves some leeway to hire more OTS if necessary.

The protection to go below the 80% is in case the express carriers can not provide the flow due to their own scheduling needs. Of the 20% remaining 50% is the "target" for the military.
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fish4life
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by fish4life »

I have been hearing more and more recently of jazz cancelling flights due to lack of crews so perhaps that 80% tipping point is here.
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by mijbil »

They should get a few more from the military. Looks like the generals are busy shooting themselves in the foot at least as far as pilot retention in the RCAF. Old rules were, in exchange for a really good training program that gave you about 200 hours, you did 5 years post wings (graduation) of obligatory service. Think of it like a training bond but in time versus $$. Then the obligatory time was upped to 7 years. That still hasn't gone away but now they have added on another 3 years post OTU, where an OTU is an operational training unit like Hercs or C17 or whatever. This also applies to those who got a desk slot for a few years and need to be re-trained back up and not just to those fresh out of the pipeline. Is the 3 years concurrent or consecutive to the 7? I don't know. As I read elsewhere, building walls to keep people in will not work. I guess that that is good news for AC mainline as I had also heard through unsubstantiated rumours that one of the reasons for the "please wait until fall" email that many of us got, was that the feeder airlines like Jazz are feeling the pinch and need time to build up a trained pilot group. 2017 is shaping up to be a really interesting year.
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skypirate88
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by skypirate88 »

fish4life wrote:I have been hearing more and more recently of jazz cancelling flights due to lack of crews so perhaps that 80% tipping point is here.
We have cancelled several flights. By the sounds of it though, AC isn't planning any courses over the summer, which should allow us to catch up in the training department. We are planning 20 new hires every 2 weeks to keep up with PML migration.

Where we will find these pilots is anyone's guess.

AC isn't going to compromise their regional lift, but they have to hire sufficient pilots from the Express brand to keep the resumes coming to Jazz, GGN and Sky.

Very interesting times around here.
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Jean-Pierre
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Jean-Pierre »

It doesn't make sense that they told OTS applicant to wait until fall because Jazz has run out of pilot. If anything they should do all OTS course over summer.
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Rowdy
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Rowdy »

Jean-Pierre wrote:It doesn't make sense that they told OTS applicant to wait until fall because Jazz has run out of pilot. If anything they should do all OTS course over summer.

Historically, AC does not run initial courses in the summer months. It has nothing to do with allowing the express carriers 'to catch up' or with any OTS hiring.
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gtanorth
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by gtanorth »

Rowdy wrote:
Jean-Pierre wrote:It doesn't make sense that they told OTS applicant to wait until fall because Jazz has run out of pilot. If anything they should do all OTS course over summer.

Historically, AC does not run initial courses in the summer months. It has nothing to do with allowing the express carriers 'to catch up' or with any OTS hiring.
AC will not run OTS GS - that would weaken the PML program they have with Express. The PML is the best recruitment tool AC has. Bring the pilots in early and young.
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atphat
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by atphat »

The PML has nothing to do with being a recruitment tool. It was used to lower costs at Jazz. AC has never and currently does not have trouble finding applicants. Also, this will probably change in the future but the ex-Jazz recruits are hardly young fresh go getters. They are experienced airline pilots.
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gtanorth
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by gtanorth »

atphat wrote:The PML has nothing to do with being a recruitment tool. It was used to lower costs at Jazz. AC has never and currently does not have trouble finding applicants. Also, this will probably change in the future but the ex-Jazz recruits are hardly young fresh go getters. They are experienced airline pilots.
I think you are viewing things as 1 airline - AC views themselves as several airlines - AC, Rouge, Jazz, GGN, Sky and even EVAS. All costs belong to AC. Attrition, recruitment, and training costs all flow up.

The PML is designed to lower the cost at Express by attracting pilots with the promise of an interview at AC. Those savings are passed on to AC. The PML is used to control attrition at Express and those savings are passed on to AC. The PML is designed to flow pilots from Express to AC and those recruitment and training savings are kept by AC.
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Rowdy
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Rowdy »

Gta north has it spot on.
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Gonzodriver
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Re: The Air Canada OTS thread

Post by Gonzodriver »

mijbil wrote:They should get a few more from the military. Looks like the generals are busy shooting themselves in the foot at least as far as pilot retention in the RCAF. Old rules were, in exchange for a really good training program that gave you about 200 hours, you did 5 years post wings (graduation) of obligatory service. Think of it like a training bond but in time versus $$. Then the obligatory time was upped to 7 years. That still hasn't gone away but now they have added on another 3 years post OTU, where an OTU is an operational training unit like Hercs or C17 or whatever. This also applies to those who got a desk slot for a few years and need to be re-trained back up and not just to those fresh out of the pipeline. Is the 3 years concurrent or consecutive to the 7? I don't know. As I read elsewhere, building walls to keep people in will not work. I guess that that is good news for AC mainline as I had also heard through unsubstantiated rumours that one of the reasons for the "please wait until fall" email that many of us got, was that the feeder airlines like Jazz are feeling the pinch and need time to build up a trained pilot group. 2017 is shaping up to be a really interesting year.

The 3 years of oblig service runs concurrently with the 7 years restricted release post wings. However for those of us that will be passed that point you need to make sure that you have enough time remaining on your current contract to cover those 3 years. So if you only have 2 yrs left then you need to sign on for another minimum contract of 5 years make it a grand total of 7 years that you are committing to overall. And at any time after you finish your OTU they could pull you from flying and out you at a desk job and you can't do anything about it. This will not solve the problem they have with retention and will only force more ppl to leave. IMO.
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