Germanwings A320 Plane Crashes in Southern France

[cncpc]

I don't think the unlocked cockpit doors themselves caused anyone to die - it was the hijackers.

Had the doors been reinforced and locked the jets would not have been taken over, the twin towers would still be standing, and the world would probably be a little different today.

I don't think the analysis is that clearcut as to whether the towers would still be standing. Nobody got into the cockpit of the airplane that didn't hit Tower 7, but it isn't still standing.

You are right that if the doors had been locked, another means of gaining control over the aircraft would have to have been found. It may have been concluded that another means couldn't have been found and that the destruction of the three towers could not be accomplished. In the event, the doors weren't locked and two airplanes struck two towers. Whether that was what caused the collapse is very much in doubt.

I do believe cockpit doors should be secured as I accept the logic that there is much greater danger from 150 passengers having access than there is from one pilot locking out the other one to pull something like this off.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Tell that to the 150 passengers and their families.
Illya

[Diadem]

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Illya

It's not just terrorists and hijackers who are a danger, it's people who get drunk and psychotic and try to get into the cockpit. For example: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/ ... ckpit.html The cockpit door prevented the flight crew from being attacked. Or how about this one, shortly after 9/11 when the guy actually managed to get into the cockpit because it still had the old door: http://napavalleyregister.com/news/pass ... 23199.html
By your logic, banks shouldn't use armoured trucks to transport money, because they hardly ever get attacked. Hell, the last time it happened in Canada it was done by one of the guards, so why not just have the bank manager take the money around in his Prius? It couldn't have anything to do with the deterrence provided by better security...

[Illya Kuryakin]

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Meanwhile, there have been over 500 deaths, due DIRECTLY to locked cockpit doors.
The 747 that crashed in Scotland, due to a bomb on board was well before the locked cockpit door era.
Your serve.
Illya

The evidence is common sense considering on 1 day in September around 3000 people were killed because of unlocked cockpit doors.

Game, set, and match.

Ref...are you BLIND? That ball was loooong!
If the very first hijacker, back in the '70's was put up against a white wall, and had his brains blown out on the eleven o'clock news, your towers would still be standing!
You can buy a shoulder launched SAM from a third world bizarre for the price of ten chickens, and the 500 people who have died as a result of these doors are 25% of the death toll on 9/11. We can preven more by simply removing the doors.
Back at deuce.
Illya

[Illya Kuryakin]

Your theory has zero substance. Where's your evidence that the locked door has prevented just ONE hijacking? Just ONE.
Illya

It's not just terrorists and hijackers who are a danger, it's people who get drunk and psychotic and try to get into the cockpit. For example: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2015/ ... ckpit.html The cockpit door prevented the flight crew from being attacked. Or how about this one, shortly after 9/11 when the guy actually managed to get into the cockpit because it still had the old door: http://napavalleyregister.com/news/pass ... 23199.html
By your logic, banks shouldn't use armoured trucks to transport money, because they hardly ever get attacked. Hell, the last time it happened in Canada it was done by one of the guards, so why not just have the bank manager take the money around in his Prius? It couldn't have anything to do with the deterrence provided by better security...

There are more than enough people on an airliner to restrain a few drunks. I'd welcome a good old fashioned brawl in the cockpit if it made my co-pilot unable to take the airplane into the Everglades while I scratched at the door.
As for the armoured car analogy? Silly. You can't kill 150 people by flying an armoured car into the mountains.
Illya

[YYZSaabGuy]

If the very first hijacker, back in the '70's was put up against a white wall, and had his brains blown out on the eleven o'clock news, your towers would still be standing!

True. It's not like the 9/11 hijackers were suicidal or willing to die for their cause. (I need an irony button here).

[FenderManDan]

I don't know if this was posted in the previous 5 pages....

FlightAware LEBL-EDDL

[FICU]

Ref...are you BLIND? That ball was loooong!
If the very first hijacker, back in the '70's was put up against a white wall, and had his brains blown out on the eleven o'clock news, your towers would still be standing.
Back at deuce.
Illya

Deuce? I' m already on my second post match bourbon!

True, a firing squad would be a deterrent to a few but today the hijackers want to off themselves along with the pax so it wouldn't matter. Unfortunately, if a group of nut bars wanted to hijack a jet with an unlocked door the sane pax wouldn't be able to stop them if the nutters were up front with big numbers.

Locked door is still the best deterrent.

Love the knee jerk reaction by the Airlines of having a 110 pound F/A in the cockpit to prevent the deranged pilot with a crash axe and fire extinguisher from crashing the jet!

[sanjet]

New cockpit policy for Air Canada

http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/new-cock ... -1.2298727

[sstaurus]

Love the knee jerk reaction by the Airlines of having a 110 pound F/A in the cockpit to prevent the deranged pilot with a crash axe and fire extinguisher from crashing the jet!

Well it's still a deterrent that's better than nothing. These guys doing this are such cowards I don't think they could physically harm someone face to face in the cockpit.

[yycflyguy]

Love the knee jerk reaction by the Airlines of having a 110 pound F/A in the cockpit to prevent the deranged pilot with a crash axe and fire extinguisher from crashing the jet!

110 pound FA? You've obviously never flown Air Canada.

[cncpc]

Guardian now reporting co-pilot interrupted training for stress/depression issues six years ago.

Lubitz had taken a break of several months from his pilot training. Carston Spohr, Lufthansa’s chief executive, said there was nothing unusual about this but that he could not and “may not” give the reason for this for reasons of medical confidentiality.

The Lufthansa boss said the interruption in the training occurred six years ago. A journalist from Der Spiegel, reporting from Montabaur, cited acquaintances as saying that the break in 2009 was because of stress – “because of burnout or depression.”

Spohr said Lubitz was judged fit to resume the training scheme a few months later and then passed all the medical, psychological, and flying tests.

The interior ministry in Berlin ran security and intelligence checks on both pilots on Tuesday, said Thomas de Maiziere, minister in charge. The data bases were scoured.

“There is no indication of any kind of terrorist background,” he said.

[Illya Kuryakin]

I've heard Air Canada intends to hire wannabes off ramps, and dress them up as "toilet relief" pilots? Any truth to this?
Illya

[Donald]

So will cargo carriers have to take a loadmaster with them?

Or do people on the ground, or a possible intentional mid-air not matter?

[Illya Kuryakin]

So will cargo carriers have to take a loadmaster with them?

Or do people on the ground, or a possible intentional mid-air not matter?

OUCH!!
Interesting thought though.
Illya

On second thought....let's put chamber pots in cockpits, and lock the pilots in from the outside.

[cncpc]

I've heard Air Canada intends to hire wannabes off ramps, and dress them up as "toilet relief" pilots? Any truth to this?
Illya

No. Air Canada denies this.

But they would say that, wouldn't they?

[beaverpuq]

I truly can't believe the stuff I see posted here sometimes. Accident investigation happens over time, after the event, and after careful evaluation, we change, or modify the problems discovered, to hopefully prevent the same thing from happening again. It's always painting with a wider brush. We can't stop doing that ever just because we're pissed off, although I like what Air Canada did today. Crazies will always act crazy. You won't always be able to stop someone well determined when, "The silicone chip inside their head, switches to overload. " God bless these folks.

[FICU]

I don't like Mondays either.

[Diadem]

There are more than enough people on an airliner to restrain a few drunks. I'd welcome a good old fashioned brawl in the cockpit if it made my co-pilot unable to take the airplane into the Everglades while I scratched at the door.
As for the armoured car analogy? Silly. You can't kill 150 people by flying an armoured car into the mountains.
Illya

I didn't realize you had so much trouble understanding analogies; it's not about how many people could die, it's about deterrence and making it at least nominally difficult to accomplish the task. It's like putting a sign in your window when you get a security system installed in your house, not because you can kill 150 people with a security system, but because if thieves know it's there they won't even bother trying to break in.
As for other passengers restraining the drunks, it's a lot easier to do it when they're outside the cockpit banging on the door than when they're holding the control column forward over your slumped body.

[Redneck_pilot86]

I've heard Air Canada intends to hire wannabes off ramps, and dress them up as "toilet relief" pilots? Any truth to this?
Illya

How much do I have to pay for that job?

[Mig29]

I personally think the investigators/judge are speaking out too soon. I mean they didn't even look at FDR tapes and already the blame is on pilots. Call me little skeptical but us pilots are the first one to get thrown down the river when something sh&ty happens. Airbus and Lufthansa/Germanwings would have huge liability if something wrong was found with the aircraft itself or pilot training or whatever else.

As for the FO experience, I think it's irrelevant how many hours he had. Whether he should been flying floats up north with this experience or teaching circuits to some new PPL does not mean anything. If someone remembers there was an incident on AC's flight to LHR with the poor FO "losing" it halfway across the pond. The crew had to restrain him and the plane diverted somewhere else. Experience in this case proves NOTHING.

Anyways....whatever happened it's definitively a shi##y way to go for crew and passengers. I hope and pray none of us ever goes through this. My condolences to all the families who lost their loved ones on this flight.

[patter]

A suicide is often also a homicide. I suspect he had to kill that which he loved the most.
If he declared he was ill, or ill again, the road to fly again might have not been possible.

[2R]

The picture of the co-pilot sitting in front of the bridge with one of the highest suicide rates in the USA is creepy.
Maybe if they had not put up those anti-jump fences he might have just killed himself and not taken those innocent people with him.

[Illya Kuryakin]

Diadem.....fact remains, if that door had not been there, 150 people would be alive today.
Got a witty come back for that one?
Illya

[Learning2Fly]

RIP to those who lost their lives.

I'd love to get my hands on the FOIA flight and CVR data. It's tough to swallow if true, but I don't trust the MSM, or investigation agencies
after all of the incompetent report that have surfaced over the years.

If this was really pilot controlled, I'd like to hear from actual family, friends, and peers as to his emotions and life issues leading
up to this event. Very sad if he felt the need to take his own life, and many others based on hard luck.

I'm not implying the report isn't true, but I wouldn't support the quick conclusion without some tangible evidence.