Are you vaccinated?

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Yep...there it is, slow clap. Keep shaming...that's it, keep going....no really, keep going. At the end of the day it comes down to choice. YOU choose what is best for YOU, you have NO right to talk down to ANYONE who make OTHER choices than you. You alone choose to engage anyone who disagrees with you, it is totally on you to continue.

It's the classic argument between someone who thinks about themself first and a someone who thinks of others first.

Confuzed is the former.

Yep, keep making assumptions chum...the high and mighty on themselves keep blasting away. Keep going, keep telling us how awesome you shamers are.

I didn't say that you're wrong. I said that you are selfish.

There is no way for me, or you for that matter, to reliably decide how things would have gone if the measures put into place were what we wanted. My point is that whereas I am doing what I'm doing because I believe that it will help others, you're doing something because you want something different for yourself.

[CpnCrunch]

Yep...there it is, slow clap. Keep shaming...that's it, keep going....no really, keep going. At the end of the day it comes down to choice. YOU choose what is best for YOU, you have NO right to talk down to ANYONE who make OTHER choices than you. You alone choose to engage anyone who disagrees with you, it is totally on you to continue.

So, am I wrong? Do you have evidence that the bomb threat wasn't dreamed up by the Belarus authorities? Certainly ReserveTank hasn't posted it. And calling covid vaccines "experimental goo" is clearly ridiculous on a similar level to his support of terrorists. Sometimes you just need to call a troll a troll and get on with your life. Not everyone is worth wasting time discussing things with.

[confuzed]

It's the classic argument between someone who thinks about themself first and a someone who thinks of others first.

Confuzed is the former.

Yep, keep making assumptions chum...the high and mighty on themselves keep blasting away. Keep going, keep telling us how awesome you shamers are.

I didn't say that you're wrong. I said that you are selfish.

There is no way for me, or you for that matter, to reliably decide how things would have gone if the measures put into place were what we wanted. My point is that whereas I am doing what I'm doing because I believe that it will help others, you're doing something because you want something different for yourself.

I am actually not selfish at all and am quire a giving person to my friends, family and whatever charity I can afford to give to. I just get sick of the shaming that has been continuously going on for the last year and change. People need to realize that we are all grown adults who can analyze information that is provided and make our own choices, and to also ACCEPT other peoples choices. All you do when you argue is exhaust yourself and create even more animosity in an already anxious time (especially for our industry). If you want to get a vaccine, have it...just don't sit there and look down on people who may not want to take it for various reasons. You have NO idea why they have chosen not to take it, and automatically when someone says they are not having it they are labeled as an "anti vaxxer"...really? That is the best people can do? Resort to the schoolyard "I'm right, you're wrong no matter what" mentality.

Like I said before, if you feel good for taking a vaccine that's awesome....good for you. However, to come on here and attempt to shame anyone who doesn't see your position and deem them selfish amongst other things is beyond juvenile.

My point is simple as well...enough with the shaming already. If you run across someone who decides not to take it they have their reasons....it is not YOUR right to condone it or make them feel idiotic for THEIR decision. This whole conversation is like trying to have a conversation with a teenager that has it in their head that they are right no matter what. At what point do you just step back, respect someones choice and that be that?

[confuzed]

Yep...there it is, slow clap. Keep shaming...that's it, keep going....no really, keep going. At the end of the day it comes down to choice. YOU choose what is best for YOU, you have NO right to talk down to ANYONE who make OTHER choices than you. You alone choose to engage anyone who disagrees with you, it is totally on you to continue.

So, am I wrong? Do you have evidence that the bomb threat wasn't dreamed up by the Belarus authorities? Certainly ReserveTank hasn't posted it. And calling covid vaccines "experimental goo" is clearly ridiculous on a similar level to his support of terrorists. Sometimes you just need to call a troll a troll and get on with your life. Not everyone is worth wasting time discussing things with.

At this point I don't even care, really I don't. If you don't agree with someone, why bother even engaging? Just scroll on and continue with your day. While you are at it, there is no need to take a condescending tone over those who may not agree with your opinions.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Yep, keep making assumptions chum...the high and mighty on themselves keep blasting away. Keep going, keep telling us how awesome you shamers are.

I didn't say that you're wrong. I said that you are selfish.

There is no way for me, or you for that matter, to reliably decide how things would have gone if the measures put into place were what we wanted. My point is that whereas I am doing what I'm doing because I believe that it will help others, you're doing something because you want something different for yourself.

I am actually not selfish at all [...] At what point do you just step back, respect someones choice and that be that?

When the efficacy of the vaccine drive relies on the most amount of people getting the vaccine, refusing the vaccine because you choose to listen to non-authoritative voices on the matter. Be a part of the solution and get the vaccine.

Listen to the thousands of trained and experienced professionals and not the two or three who have the title but disagree with an irrelevant point.

[CpnCrunch]

At this point I don't even care, really I don't. If you don't agree with someone, why bother even engaging? Just scroll on and continue with your day. While you are at it, there is no need to take a condescending tone over those who may not agree with your opinions.

Well, people are dying due to misinformation. For example, 26-year old Manitoba nurse Kim Kotelo. She didn't get the vaccine because she was worried about infertility, even though she is high risk (diabetes). She caught COVID and is now dead. But as for avcanada, yeah, I don't really give a rats ass about most people here...they should have the ability to figure fact from fiction, and if not I don't really care. I mostly avoid these covid forums as it's just such a shitshow, and just post the occasional rant to get it off my chest.

[confuzed]

I didn't say that you're wrong. I said that you are selfish.

There is no way for me, or you for that matter, to reliably decide how things would have gone if the measures put into place were what we wanted. My point is that whereas I am doing what I'm doing because I believe that it will help others, you're doing something because you want something different for yourself.

I am actually not selfish at all [...] At what point do you just step back, respect someones choice and that be that?

When the efficacy of the vaccine drive relies on the most amount of people getting the vaccine, refusing the vaccine because you choose to listen to non-authoritative voices on the matter. Be a part of the solution and get the vaccine.

Listen to the thousands of trained and experienced professionals and not the two or three who have the title but disagree with an irrelevant point.

See, RIGHT there is what I am talking about. NO where did I say that I do not believe what professionals have said. What you need to take into your apparent one way thinking pattern are those who for medical reasons may not WANT or are able to take a vaccine as it could complicate things further for them. I know people in this very situation...do I ostracize them because of this? Nope, at the end of the day it is NONE of my business.

The only question I have for you is this. Are you saying that you are prepared to continuously take these vaccines for the rest of your life as new viruses and their mutations crop up? Are you also saying that you want to continue to take booster vaccines when the main Covid vaccine wears off? If so, good to know that is your right.

I will continue to respect peoples choice and not publicly ostracize them for it. You continue doing what you are doing though, that is your right I guess. Just don't be surprised/shocked when people tell you to mind your own business or to go screw yourself. You have NO idea that the current path is going to be a successful one, the empirical data is just NOT there. However, continue on your righteous path...

[confuzed]

At this point I don't even care, really I don't. If you don't agree with someone, why bother even engaging? Just scroll on and continue with your day. While you are at it, there is no need to take a condescending tone over those who may not agree with your opinions.

Well, people are dying due to misinformation. For example, 26-year old Manitoba nurse Kim Kotelo. She didn't get the vaccine because she was worried about infertility, even though she is high risk (diabetes). She caught COVID and is now dead. But as for avcanada, yeah, I don't really give a rats ass about most people here...they should have the ability to figure fact from fiction, and if not I don't really care. I mostly avoid these covid forums as it's just such a shitshow, and just post the occasional rant to get it off my chest.

You are picking and choosing here chum, did she have underlying issues? Wait, you just said she did...soooooo, yeah there's that. When you sit back and just look at the numbers it is definitely interesting to see. What are the underlying issues that these people who have passed on had? It's hard to know, because that information isn't necessarily passed on to the general population. If it were 25,000 absolutely fit as a fiddle people dropping dead from Covid then yes for sure, have a ton of concern. Is it though? I personally know a few people who have had it, and by their own accounts yeah it sucked. They are EXTREMELY healthy, and it hit them like a really bad flu and then they recovered. However as small business owners, they get an additional kick to the groin watching their livelihoods get decimated over the reaction from the government.

Regardless, I see wanting to vent...I get it, been there done that. At the same time, perhaps a little thinking outside of the box and respecting other peoples opinions without ostracizing them for it is in order. At the end of the day people have formed their thought process over the last year and change and will not be swayed by the Covid warriors banging on the drum of the sky is falling. You are terrified of this virus enough to get a vaccine (or want to do your part), that's cool man...good on ya. High five...no, I am not being sarcastic. I am respecting YOUR opinion on the matter. I will not try to sway your way of thinking, what would be the point in that?

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

For the record, I am one of the booking agents for a provincial vaccine booking system.

I deal with people every day who have questions about COVID-19 vaccines that are receptive to factual answers, such as potential side effects and the risks.

I also deal with people who say "I don't want Moderna, I want Pfizer," or other way around. These are people making decisions on information that they don't understand.

For instance, many people (probably you too) believe that a vaccine's efficacy is how many times out of 100 that the vaccine will prevent you getting sick.

Vaccines don't prevent you from getting sick. Vaccines only work when the virus enters your body. For a more relatable example, vaccines are like boots on a wing. They won't prevent you from getting iced up, and in fact, won't help much if you don't get much ice, but when the ice builds up, the boots are able to remove it and allow the aircraft to reduce the effects of the buildup. Vaccines work in a similar way where they allow your body to learn how to fight a virus and give it a head start on destroying the virus once it enters your body. You still get sick, but it's to a significantly lower extent.

Now, why is it important that as many people get the vaccine as possible?

COVID-19 spreads by infecting hosts and then transmitting from one host to another. If we can reduce the length and severity of the contagious period, we can reduce the risk to everyone that person is around. If enough people who get sick are unable to pass the virus on, the virus will eventually drop to the point where it would take a significant event to get back to epidemic proportions, let alone a pandemic.

---

Get your shot and stop whining.

[confuzed]

For the record, I am one of the booking agents for a provincial vaccine booking system.

I deal with people every day who have questions about COVID-19 vaccines that are receptive to factual answers, such as potential side effects and the risks.

I also deal with people who say "I don't want Moderna, I want Pfizer," or other way around. These are people making decisions on information that they don't understand.

For instance, many people (probably you too) believe that a vaccine's efficacy is how many times out of 100 that the vaccine will prevent you getting sick.

Vaccines don't prevent you from getting sick. Vaccines only work when the virus enters your body. For a more relatable example, vaccines are like boots on a wing. They won't prevent you from getting iced up, and in fact, won't help much if you don't get much ice, but when the ice builds up, the boots are able to remove it and allow the aircraft to reduce the effects of the buildup. Vaccines work in a similar way where they allow your body to learn how to fight a virus and give it a head start on destroying the virus once it enters your body. You still get sick, but it's to a significantly lower extent.

Now, why is it important that as many people get the vaccine as possible?

COVID-19 spreads by infecting hosts and then transmitting from one host to another. If we can reduce the length and severity of the contagious period, we can reduce the risk to everyone that person is around. If enough people who get sick are unable to pass the virus on, the virus will eventually drop to the point where it would take a significant event to get back to epidemic proportions, let alone a pandemic.

---

Get your shot and stop whining.

Interesting medical lesson, thanks for that. I should say the same to you actually. Stop your whining, people have the right to choose.

[CpnCrunch]

You are picking and choosing here chum, did she have underlying issues? Wait, you just said she did...soooooo, yeah there's that.

No, you have misunderstood. She had an underlying condition. She KNEW she was at risk. But she chose not to have the vaccine because she had been fed misinformation about it causing infertility. She caught COVID and died.

What are the underlying issues that these people who have passed on had? It's hard to know, because that information isn't necessarily passed on to the general population. If it were 25,000 absolutely fit as a fiddle people dropping dead from Covid then yes for sure, have a ton of concern. Is it though?

That's my point! The information it out there for people who choose to look. For example, obesity increases mortality risk by 36%, and a small proportion of healthy people do end up in ICU:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamain ... le/2770542

[confuzed]

You are picking and choosing here chum, did she have underlying issues? Wait, you just said she did...soooooo, yeah there's that.

No, you have misunderstood. She had an underlying condition. She KNEW she was at risk. But she chose not to have the vaccine because she had been fed misinformation about it causing infertility. She caught COVID and died.

What are the underlying issues that these people who have passed on had? It's hard to know, because that information isn't necessarily passed on to the general population. If it were 25,000 absolutely fit as a fiddle people dropping dead from Covid then yes for sure, have a ton of concern. Is it though?

That's my point! The information it out there for people who choose to look. For example, obesity increases mortality risk by 36%, and a small proportion of healthy people do end up in ICU:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamain ... le/2770542

Gotcha, however there is no guarantee that she would not have caught Covid even after having been vaccinated. There never is any guarantees with anything really. She made a choice based on the information that she had and chose to follow, however to make a firm statement that getting a vaccine would have 100% prevented this from happening is a little disingenuous.

Agree, there is a plethora of available places to attain information. Some of it is straight up comical, and of course there is what the medical profession puts out. Nothing is worth listening to 100% though, as over time opinions (even medical ones) are adapted and changed as long term studies and evidence finding are carried out/found. If people make the choice early on, then good on them.

There are many examples over the years of things/opinions that have been changed over the decades. That is the nature of the beast though, and people don't just jump on the first available solution. They will sit back and study all available information over time before rushing to make a decision (aka jump on the bandwagon). It is what democracy is based on, allowing people to make their own decisions without being influenced heavily by others who think they know better. If you do enough research you can also find medical professionals who are not wanting to take a vaccine...it is what it is, and again is their choice.

You do however point out that "a small proportion of healthy people do end up in ICU" which I will not argue. What needs to be done is having COMPLETE transparency, as the media tends to just report overall death count without actually mentioning the background of the individual. I am not going to sit here and banter about the media, as there is no real point to that. It is what it is, nothing will change how they do business.

Perhaps an agree to disagree with a few things on this thread, I simply wanted to call out those who seem to be shaming others over something that they have no right to do. The aviation industry has already been absolutely decimated with many of our brethren undergoing the most challenging times in their careers...perhaps instead of sitting there being so condescending, it could best be spent respecting each other. Wait, I'm on AvCanada...forgot that isn't possible and ostracizing people is par for the course here.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Interesting medical lesson, thanks for that. I should say the same to you actually. Stop your whining, people have the right to choose.

You're right, people do have a right to choose. Make the right choice.

And if you don't, you will be restricted from participating in certain activities that would make you a risk to others, not unlike what we already do in schools.

[47north]

You are picking and choosing here chum, did she have underlying issues? Wait, you just said she did...soooooo, yeah there's that.

No, you have misunderstood. She had an underlying condition. She KNEW she was at risk. But she chose not to have the vaccine because she had been fed misinformation about it causing infertility. She caught COVID and died.

What are the underlying issues that these people who have passed on had? It's hard to know, because that information isn't necessarily passed on to the general population. If it were 25,000 absolutely fit as a fiddle people dropping dead from Covid then yes for sure, have a ton of concern. Is it though?

....The aviation industry has already been absolutely decimated with many of our brethren undergoing the most challenging times in their careers...

So how exactly is the industry going to recover without a significant uptake of vaccines? It's hard to comprehend why anyone with a stake in this industry isn't lining up to get the shot. It is the only way we recover in a meaningful way.

[CpnCrunch]

Gotcha, however there is no guarantee that she would not have caught Covid even after having been vaccinated. There never is any guarantees with anything really. She made a choice based on the information that she had and chose to follow, however to make a firm statement that getting a vaccine would have 100% prevented this from happening is a little disingenuous.

I never said it would have prevented it 100%. However, the real-world studies show the Pfizer vaccine is 96.7% effective against death from COVID-19.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspec ... protection

A 96.7% reduction in risk of dying would seem to be a pretty good bet to me.

[montado]

Death by covid is tragic. Very sad to see that nurse pass away from it. She is the exception, not the rule.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba ... -1.5425612

Any disease, or virus can take a life early. Influenza is possibly just as deadly as covid to those under 20. But we don’t see people as angry about getting the flu shot. We don’t see the same disruption to people’s daily life for influenza.

I think people are burning out of the fear, and the more objectively you look at the pandemic the less many of the policies make sense. I was happy to take my vaccine, but don’t really care what choice others make. If I was going to try to change someone’s mind when they didn’t want the vaccine the last thing I would do is try to use fear and shame. That’s what the government has been doing for the last year, obviously it’s not working. Just lay out the facts and let people decide.

[CpnCrunch]

Any disease, or virus can take a life early. Influenza is possibly just as deadly as covid to those under 20. But we don’t see people as angry about getting the flu shot. We don’t see the same disruption to people’s daily life for influenza.

No, it's not the same at all. That is the entire point.

[ReserveTank]

Oh yes, having an opinion on injecting experimental goo into your body

Antivaxxer and terrorist supporter to boot (http://avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p1154654).

So, am I wrong? Do you have evidence that the bomb threat wasn't dreamed up by the Belarus authorities? Certainly ReserveTank hasn't posted it. And calling covid vaccines "experimental goo" is clearly ridiculous on a similar level to his support of terrorists.

You're just another product of the media's Pavlovian puppy mill. Besides your childish inability to gather context due to your trained emotional attachment to your party's dogmata, your brain seems bereft of the ability to process wheat from chaff when it comes to world events. You're that common midwit, just sub-100 IQ schmo that's just smart enough to cooperate with perceived authority but not smart enough to know when you've been misled.

And to your points above, I'll bet a Benjamin that I've received many more vaccinations (and different types) than anyone here (international work). Your social media-fed aNtiVaxXeR rhetoric doesn't apply here. So people don't want to poke themselves with some new, UNAPPROVED goo because they're distrustful. Big deal.

The second point about Protasevich-He's a wanted terrorist. Who cares if Belarus used a false pretext or not? The point is that a terrorist was in the air over their airspace. They apprehended him when they had they opportunity. No pax were harmed. Win-win. Not sure where you're getting this idea that I support terrorists? Perhaps you'd like to explain that point of view...Maybe it's that anti-Russian garbage that your anti-Canadian media feeds you.

Get an original thought into your brain and stop letting your smartphone news feeds think for you. Read books, learn history. Be less gullible.

[montado]

Won’t be long before bill c-10 passes and Trudeau himself will come on AvCanada and squash all of this miss-information. How dare one say they don’t really want a vaccine!? Miss-information, delete! We can all live in a social media echo chamber where we all seem to agree, because those who disagree will get crushed like a roach!

Who voted for that guy?

[ReserveTank]

Won’t be long before bill c-10 passes and Trudeau himself will come on AvCanada and squash all of this miss-information. How dare one say they don’t really want a vaccine!? Miss-information, delete! We can all live in a social media echo chamber where we all seem to agree, because those who disagree will get crushed like a roach!

Who voted for that guy?

Better sooner than later. When these Pavlov puppies are no longer needed as the state's tools, they will receive the same censorship. What these masked, thick-rimmed glasses-wearing useful innocents don't realize is that they also get the gulag-even if it's a metaphorical encampment. They were convinced that history is evil and racist, and so they foolishly believed their authority figures. We are repeating European events from 100 years ago, note for note, just with different (arguably better?) technology. The self-righteous soy component didn't read anything so they have no grasp of what's happening. They simply obey. Eat terrible processed chemical food. Obey. Injections are health, not diet or exercise. Obey. Official news is the only truth for you. Obey. The truth is whatever they are strongly told to believe, of course this was much easier to accomplish once everyone's minds were sufficiently softened by bad diet, permissive attitudes towards hedonism, and a constant barrage of anti-family propaganda.

[notwhoyouthinkIam]

Won’t be long before bill c-10 passes and Trudeau himself will come on AvCanada and squash all of this miss-information. How dare one say they don’t really want a vaccine!? Miss-information, delete! We can all live in a social media echo chamber where we all seem to agree, because those who disagree will get crushed like a roach!

Who voted for that guy?

The Liberals are a group of turds.

Mind you, the Conservatives aren't much better, but there are a few key points that they are doing right by me.

[pelmet]

I was operating on a paranoia level for much of the year due to wanting to avoid long covid symptoms(and a 1 in 200 chance of death according to one report of how things were in April). Due to where I have been working, I have had my second dose of the top of the line stuff for over 6 weeks now. Especially with the variants around, it is nice to not have a worry anymore8). With my having to interact with a whole bunch more people lately for unrelated reasons, it is a huge relief. Nice bypassing the Canadian system where some were given preference over others who were much, much older(and criminals getting preference as well).

Now, I can worry about other things.

[shimmydampner]

I was operating on a paranoia level for much of the year due to wanting to avoid long covid symptoms(and a 1 in 200 chance of death according to one report of how things were in April).

Unless you're over 80, a quick internet search and some simple math would have put your mind at ease.

[GRK2]

(and criminals getting preference as well).

You do understand how this spreads right? The chance that the hard working and law abiding workers inside and in close contact with those criminals you seem to fear can take that virus home and infect the "innocent" right? Then that gets spread in the community. Close minded thinking. But you knew that already and chose to ignore common sense.

[albertdesalvo]

I believe the reference is to the vaccination of jail inmates, who won't be infecting anyone but themselves. And the jail staff.

Since social distancing in a jail is impossible, it makes sense to vaccinate as many inmates as possible, otherwise you are looking at a thousand people at once becoming infected, and all the attendant health care problems and costs that are attached to that scenario.