Tbayer2021 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:19 pm
So you understood the point was irrelevant and still decided to bring it up? Solid Logic! Keep calling me names when your intelligence is questioned, it's really a great look on you.
Quite literally nobody gives a shit what you think. Load up your fag trailer and pull it around an airport looking kewl. Shitweasel.
Is this the type of person that Flair is hiring?
I'm glad that I'll never fly with you. Derogatory terms against sexual orientation (or any other identifiable group) are not appropriate and not appreciated. Don't come back until you can be respectful to others.
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Last edited by goingmissed on Thu May 05, 2022 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tbayer2021 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:19 pm
So you understood the point was irrelevant and still decided to bring it up? Solid Logic! Keep calling me names when your intelligence is questioned, it's really a great look on you.
Quite literally nobody gives a shit what you think. Load up your fag trailer and pull it around an airport looking kewl. Shitweasel.
Is this the type of person that Flair is hiring?
I'm glad that I'll never fly with you. Derogatory terms against sexual orientation (or any other identifiable group) are not appropriate and not appreciated. Don't come back until you can be respectful to others.
Reshuffling the deck without altering who has defacto control of the business will alter nothing; indeed it may work against Flair and stiffen the CTA’s resolve.
Adding “Canadians” to the BoD means nothing if it’s believed they’ll all consistently side with 777’s vision and continued economic and commercial control of the operation.
The CTA can “look through” all arrangements.
Unless there’s a ton of new, paid in Canadian equity that supersedes US equity / debt, and that equity is stewarded by Canadian representation on the BoD that outweighs US influence and control, Flair’s in trouble.
777 have already demonstrated their willingness and desire to circumvent Canadian law. The CTA knows this and also know that tigers don’t change their stripes. It’s never a good idea to try an end run around “city hall”.
Flair can protest to their hearts content but this is entirely the CTA’s call.
Realitychex wrote: ↑Sun May 01, 2022 8:05 am
Reshuffling the deck without altering who has defacto control of the business will alter nothing; indeed it may work against Flair and stiffen the CTA’s resolve.
Adding “Canadians” to the BoD means nothing if it’s believed they’ll all consistently side with 777’s vision and continued economic and commercial control of the operation.
The CTA can “look through” all arrangements.
Unless there’s a ton of new, paid in Canadian equity that supersedes US equity / debt, and that equity is stewarded by Canadian representation on the BoD that outweighs US influence and control, Flair’s in trouble.
777 have already demonstrated their willingness and desire to circumvent Canadian law. The CTA knows this and also know that tigers don’t change their stripes. It’s never a good idea to try an end run around “city hall”.
Flair can protest to their hearts content but this is entirely the CTA’s call.
Yeah you can’t actually prove that with an”feeling” the canadians will side with 777. Then this is nothing but a witch hunt to stifle competition. They are demonstrably not in majority ownership. Who leases the planes is a red herring. No one leases planes from Canadian sources pretty much. Is Porter now defacto controlled by Brazil since they have a majority Embraer fleet? Come on
I'm afraid that anybody can call themself whatever they'd like to on here. I would NOT assume that 'Flairpilot' is indeed an actual one.
More likely an inflammatorynonpilot.
Tbayer2021 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 2:19 pm
So you understood the point was irrelevant and still decided to bring it up? Solid Logic! Keep calling me names when your intelligence is questioned, it's really a great look on you.
Quite literally nobody gives a shit what you think. Load up your fag trailer and pull it around an airport looking kewl. Shitweasel.
Is this the type of person that Flair is hiring?
I'm glad that I'll never fly with you. Derogatory terms against sexual orientation (or any other identifiable group) are not appropriate and not appreciated. Don't come back until you can be respectful to others.
fish4life wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
The kook aid at Flair must have been even more spiked than what westjet used to serve.
It’s almost like the former majority shareholder suing 777 and the ceo didn’t happen
*yawn* May 3rd come and gone. Flair adding more routes. Ya'll gone real quiet now huh?
fish4life wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
The kook aid at Flair must have been even more spiked than what westjet used to serve.
It’s almost like the former majority shareholder suing 777 and the ceo didn’t happen
*yawn* May 3rd come and gone. Flair adding more routes. Ya'll gone real quiet now huh?
fish4life wrote: ↑Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
The kook aid at Flair must have been even more spiked than what westjet used to serve.
It’s almost like the former majority shareholder suing 777 and the ceo didn’t happen
*yawn* May 3rd come and gone. Flair adding more routes. Ya'll gone real quiet now huh?
evilgravy wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 5:28 pm
Will there be a 61% off sale on June 1st? the folks at the Flair Air Nightmares FB group wanna know.
It’s great PR, Flair still made money off the 0% base fare sale in February! The folks at Flair Air Nightmare spend their days making an excel sheet on the OTP between Flair and Swoop. Must be nice to have nothing else to do with their lives.
Oh I'm sure 777 er, I mean uh, Stephen Jones was pleased with the results from the $0 sale lol.
The stuff I've seen on the FAN page (ironic acronym noted) is more about canceling flights, delivering customers bags and actually responding to concerns. You know, real airline stuff... but pobody's nerfect. oh and how is that completion rate btw?
evilgravy wrote: ↑Thu May 12, 2022 9:56 pm
Oh I'm sure 777 er, I mean uh, Stephen Jones was pleased with the results from the $0 sale lol.
The stuff I've seen on the FAN page (ironic acronym noted) is more about canceling flights, delivering customers bags and actually responding to concerns. You know, real airline stuff... but pobody's nerfect. oh and how is that completion rate btw?
co-joe wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:29 am
You mean the Facebook group started and run by Westjet employees with the sole purpose of spreading malicious and often untrue stories about Flair?
Got receipts on that? That’s a pretty heavy statement.
I mean, don’t get me wrong - everyone knows Swoop was started with the sole purpose of taking new leaf / flair out, so this isn’t entirely surprising.
co-joe wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 11:29 am
You mean the Facebook group started and run by Westjet employees with the sole purpose of spreading malicious and often untrue stories about Flair?
Ah yes, the "[identifiable group] pays trolls to post fake shit so everyone who says [something] about [another identifiable group] is a shill" argument.
[8] The Agency finds, after considering all of the facts, that the changes implemented since the Agency’s Preliminary Determination, including to the USA and Promissory Note, have addressed the concerns raised by the Agency in its Preliminary Determination.
for me, the above says it all - "hey we can do whatever we want, as long as we change it when we get caught" - and sets a somewhat dangerous precedent. but hey, I'm happy for y'all. I hope part of the agreement w/ 777 was a cut on the 18% interest rate on that loan.
flying4dollars wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:30 pm
Sooo I take it all the haters are going to go real quiet after today's findings.
*crickets*
Thought so. Close 'er up mods!!
So, in your mind Flair did nothing wrong! If that were the case, why ALL the changes to the structure? I don’t think the CTA went far enough, there should be heavy fines levied for violating the rules, as evilgravy said, we can do what we want as long as we change it when caught!
I don’t think this is over, likely a damages lawsuit coming down the pipe
flying4dollars wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 4:30 pm
Sooo I take it all the haters are going to go real quiet after today's findings.
*crickets*
Thought so. Close 'er up mods!!
So, in your mind Flair did nothing wrong! If that were the case, why ALL the changes to the structure? I don’t think the CTA went far enough, there should be heavy fines levied for violating the rules, as evilgravy said, we can do what we want as long as we change it when caught!
I don’t think this is over, likely a damages lawsuit coming down the pipe
In a game of survival when Flair got no support from anyone but their investors? I'd have done the same damn thing myself. None of us know what really went on behind closed doors. CTA made their decision and you can't accept it? Why? I can understand being upset if you're an upper manager at another airline. But if you're a pilot, you should understand this is good for the industry. Competition is healthy, it is stimulating the market and it is creating jobs. In fact, it was the only airline creating jobs while everyone else was laid off.
If a lawsuit comes, it'll likely get tossed. Flair isn't going anywhere guys. Get over it
flying4dollars wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 9:45 am
I can understand being upset if you're an upper manager at another airline. But if you're a pilot, you should understand this is good for the industry. Competition is healthy, it is stimulating the market and it is creating jobs. In fact, it was the only airline creating jobs while everyone else was laid off.
Exactly. The last thing any of us needs is for a player like Flair to disappear and suddenly leave however many experienced pilots on the street and kill movement at other carriers while they get picked up. Hopefully with their planned expansion we see pay come up across the board!
This is where the majority of the posters fail - they don't understand the CTA process. The control in fact requirements are not a set of prescriptive regulations such as the CARs but rather a far more nebulous set of requirements that are subjective. The CTA then has an ongoing responsibility to oversee and complete occasional audits to observe and make recommendations. Over time any organizations grows and involves and, in the case of Flair and others debt and other areas may change. If the CTA ha concerns they can audit, investigate and, if required force change. SO the process worked.
Good luck with lawsuits as there is no basis due to the above. Air Canada was over 90% foreign owned after their bankruptcy, as an example, as was permitted time to adjust.
Soyer wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:13 pm
Good luck with lawsuits as there is no basis due to the above. Air Canada was over 90% foreign owned after their bankruptcy, as an example, as was permitted time to adjust.
Not sure that is accurate.
ACE Holdings owned 100% of AC. It was a privately held wholly-owned subsidiary (until the AC IPO).
Unsecured creditors owned 87% of ACE (including a 10% holding by the affected unions). Cerberus Capital owned 9%.
It would be complicated to determine exactly where the total ACE holdings ended up (foreign vs domestic) but I do not recall this being an issue at the time.
One former senior employee at Flair, who did not want to be identified, said the airline frequently struggled to pay its bills and depended on cash from 777 to stay afloat.
“They made Flair beg for every penny that they got, but almost every month they had to shell out money to Flair,” the employee said. “Every single month just to make ends meet.”
