ground schools canceled

[braaap Braap]

The last thing the pilots of WestJet need is a surplus of available 705 pilots on the market.

[…]

Competition is what makes all of us better

These statements contradict each other.

No they dont. Supply and demand rules. More competition = higher demand and lower available supply = higher wage pressure. Less competition = lower demand and higher available supply = decreased pressure on wages.

Its contradictory if both statements were referring to the same type of competition.

[co-joe]

So Tbaylx, Are you suggesting these 4 people did not get hired by Lynx? Or did they lie about their qualifications and work history? What part is untrue about that statement? Pretty sure there are indeed more people than you care to admit jumping ship maybe?

What does it even matter? Even with the repo man saga, Flair has lost 4 Captains in 4 months this year, meanwhile WestJet is losing a pilot every 18 hours! that means since you wrote this post and I replied to it, 19 WestJet pilots have quit. And in that same time, nobody has given up on flair. To me that speaks volumes about the confidence F8 drivers have in our company even after getting kicked in the nuts.

[J Roc]

So Tbaylx, Are you suggesting these 4 people did not get hired by Lynx? Or did they lie about their qualifications and work history? What part is untrue about that statement? Pretty sure there are indeed more people than you care to admit jumping ship maybe?

What does it even matter? Even with the repo man saga, Flair has lost 4 Captains in 4 months this year, meanwhile WestJet is losing a pilot every 18 hours! that means since you wrote this post and I replied to it, 19 WestJet pilots have quit. And in that same time, nobody has given up on flair. To me that speaks volumes about the confidence F8 drivers have in our company even after getting kicked in the nuts.

In all fairness, Westjet isn't losing highly experienced captains, except the 10 that were fired 16 months ago (but that's an entirely different discussion.)

Westjet's battle is recruiting and retaining the next generation of pilots. A battle that AC is winning; when WJ loses a young recruit to AC, they're lost forever. Losing a new FO recruit to Flair is temporary.

IMHO, you'll see more Flair FOs move to WJ should ALPA make considerable gains in the CA. Especially in the YEG and YYC base, as many young FOs desire what a large carrier has to offer, and prefer a western base. A lot hinges on the WJ contract and it's too soon to call.

However, I do agree; the atmosphere at Flair is very positive. Despite the recent nut punch, there's still a high level of excitement, energy, and ambition for the future. It's nice.

[pilotguy53]

Does anyone have any updates on this one? Are we still looking at likely a 2024 resumption for ground school starts? TIA.

We are tentatively planning a May 23rd ground school to cover an increase in block hours per aircraft. Primarily YEG openings.

Thanks for the speedy reply!

Have calls already gone out for the May 23rd GS? TIA.

[tbaylx]

We are tentatively planning a May 23rd ground school to cover an increase in block hours per aircraft. Primarily YEG openings.

Thanks for the speedy reply!

Have calls already gone out for the May 23rd GS? TIA.

Not yet, we're still discussing the class size and the course is still tentative. We haven't seen any significant level of resignations yet this spring. I suspect we'll lose some pilots to AC this summer so we'll be running a summer course at some point.

[flying4dollars]

So Tbaylx, Are you suggesting these 4 people did not get hired by Lynx? Or did they lie about their qualifications and work history? What part is untrue about that statement? Pretty sure there are indeed more people than you care to admit jumping ship maybe?

What does it even matter? Even with the repo man saga, Flair has lost 4 Captains in 4 months this year, meanwhile WestJet is losing a pilot every 18 hours! that means since you wrote this post and I replied to it, 19 WestJet pilots have quit. And in that same time, nobody has given up on flair. To me that speaks volumes about the confidence F8 drivers have in our company even after getting kicked in the nuts.

In all fairness, Westjet isn't losing highly experienced captains, except the 10 that were fired 16 months ago (but that's an entirely different discussion.)

Westjet's battle is recruiting and retaining the next generation of pilots. A battle that AC is winning; when WJ loses a young recruit to AC, they're lost forever. Losing a new FO recruit to Flair is temporary.

IMHO, you'll see more Flair FOs move to WJ should ALPA make considerable gains in the CA. Especially in the YEG and YYC base, as many young FOs desire what a large carrier has to offer, and prefer a western base. A lot hinges on the WJ contract and it's too soon to call.

However, I do agree; the atmosphere at Flair is very positive. Despite the recent nut punch, there's still a high level of excitement, energy, and ambition for the future. It's nice.

Disagree. 10-12+ years to upgrade? In this environment, not many want to wait that long in the right seat. If they are going to leave to go anywhere, it's most likely going to be Air Canada. Also Flair has 4 western bases. WJ has 2 (3 if you include Swoop).

[Airbrake]

What does it even matter? Even with the repo man saga, Flair has lost 4 Captains in 4 months this year, meanwhile WestJet is losing a pilot every 18 hours! that means since you wrote this post and I replied to it, 19 WestJet pilots have quit. And in that same time, nobody has given up on flair. To me that speaks volumes about the confidence F8 drivers have in our company even after getting kicked in the nuts.

In all fairness, Westjet isn't losing highly experienced captains, except the 10 that were fired 16 months ago (but that's an entirely different discussion.)

Westjet's battle is recruiting and retaining the next generation of pilots. A battle that AC is winning; when WJ loses a young recruit to AC, they're lost forever. Losing a new FO recruit to Flair is temporary.

IMHO, you'll see more Flair FOs move to WJ should ALPA make considerable gains in the CA. Especially in the YEG and YYC base, as many young FOs desire what a large carrier has to offer, and prefer a western base. A lot hinges on the WJ contract and it's too soon to call.

However, I do agree; the atmosphere at Flair is very positive. Despite the recent nut punch, there's still a high level of excitement, energy, and ambition for the future. It's nice.

Disagree. 10-12+ years to upgrade? In this environment, not many want to wait that long in the right seat. If they are going to leave to go anywhere, it's most likely going to be Air Canada. Also Flair has 4 western bases. WJ has 2 (3 if you include Swoop).

WestJet has 3 bases in the west.
YVR, YYC & YEG.

[J Roc]

Disagree. 10-12+ years to upgrade? In this environment, not many want to wait that long in the right seat. If they are going to leave to go anywhere, it's most likely going to be Air Canada. Also Flair has 4 western bases. WJ has 2 (3 if you include Swoop).

That's why I said, "A lot hinges on the new WJ CA." If ALPA can secure a contract competitive to AC, then I think you'll see more Flair FOs make the move to WJ. However, that's just my opinion.

[J Roc]

In all fairness, Westjet isn't losing highly experienced captains, except the 10 that were fired 16 months ago (but that's an entirely different discussion.)

Westjet's battle is recruiting and retaining the next generation of pilots. A battle that AC is winning; when WJ loses a young recruit to AC, they're lost forever. Losing a new FO recruit to Flair is temporary.

IMHO, you'll see more Flair FOs move to WJ should ALPA make considerable gains in the CA. Especially in the YEG and YYC base, as many young FOs desire what a large carrier has to offer, and prefer a western base. A lot hinges on the WJ contract and it's too soon to call.

However, I do agree; the atmosphere at Flair is very positive. Despite the recent nut punch, there's still a high level of excitement, energy, and ambition for the future. It's nice.

Disagree. 10-12+ years to upgrade? In this environment, not many want to wait that long in the right seat. If they are going to leave to go anywhere, it's most likely going to be Air Canada. Also, Flair has 4 western bases. WJ has 2 (3 if you include Swoop).

WestJet has 3 bases in the west.
YVR, YYC & YEG.

I'm aware. I only mentioned YEG and YYC as AC doesn't have a YEG or YYC base. I was referring to Flair FOs living in the YEG/YYC bases looking for a career move to a large carrier, who don't want to commute for AC. As I said, I could be wrong, but if WJ ALPA can secure large gains in their CA, Flair may lose FOs from those bases.

[flying4dollars]

Disagree. 10-12+ years to upgrade? In this environment, not many want to wait that long in the right seat. If they are going to leave to go anywhere, it's most likely going to be Air Canada. Also, Flair has 4 western bases. WJ has 2 (3 if you include Swoop).

WestJet has 3 bases in the west.
YVR, YYC & YEG.

I'm aware. I only mentioned YEG and YYC as AC doesn't have a YEG or YYC base. I was referring to Flair FOs living in the YEG/YYC bases looking for a career move to a large carrier, who don't want to commute for AC. As I said, I could be wrong, but if WJ ALPA can secure large gains in their CA, Flair may lose FOs from those bases.

Fair enough. I certainly hope WJ gets the gains they want for both CA and FO's but I still don't see Flair FO's sliding over to WJ except maybe the really low time FO's but I could of course be wrong.

[HKPILOT]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

Have calls already gone out for the May 23rd GS? TIA.

Not yet, we're still discussing the class size and the course is still tentative. We haven't seen any significant level of resignations yet this spring. I suspect we'll lose some pilots to AC this summer so we'll be running a summer course at some point.

Any updates for the May 23 class? How many hires? Any invites?

[J Roc]

WestJet has 3 bases in the west.
YVR, YYC & YEG.

I'm aware. I only mentioned YEG and YYC as AC doesn't have a YEG or YYC base. I was referring to Flair FOs living in the YEG/YYC bases looking for a career move to a large carrier, who don't want to commute for AC. As I said, I could be wrong, but if WJ ALPA can secure large gains in their CA, Flair may lose FOs from those bases.

Fair enough. I certainly hope WJ gets the gains they want for both CA and FO's but I still don't see Flair FO's sliding over to WJ except maybe the really low time FO's but I could of course be wrong.

You may be right. The last few FOs I've flown with enjoy the job at Flair and have no desire to move, and in no way do I encourage FOs to leave. Quite the opposite actually; I think there are great benefits to being at Flair, and the working relationship with the company and management is far superior to what the large carriers have to offer. I suppose it depends on what you value, and there's a lot of value in what Flair has to offer.

That being said, I also hope WJ ALPA can make large gains. I wish my ex-colleagues the very best. I pray they don't get Kaplan'd this time around.

[MAX8 Driver]

I think there are great benefits to being at Flair, and the working relationship with the company and management is far superior to what the large carriers have to offer. I suppose it depends on what you value, and there's a lot of value in what Flair has to offer.

What are the great benefits? Where is there lots of value in what Flair has to offer?

[J Roc]

"I suppose it depends on what you value." lol

Some guys appreciate a positive working relationship with their management team. Maybe it's being home more. Maybe it's fast upgrades. As I said, it depends, but it's also not for everyone. So, thankfully, for those who want something a little different, AC and WJ are hiring....A LOT. What a wonderful time to be alive, amirite?

[khedrei]

I think there are great benefits to being at Flair, and the working relationship with the company and management is far superior to what the large carriers have to offer. I suppose it depends on what you value, and there's a lot of value in what Flair has to offer.

What are the great benefits? Where is there lots of value in what Flair has to offer?

One of the highest starting FO wages, lots of single day pairings, lots of bases.

[flying4dollars]

I think there are great benefits to being at Flair, and the working relationship with the company and management is far superior to what the large carriers have to offer. I suppose it depends on what you value, and there's a lot of value in what Flair has to offer.

What are the great benefits? Where is there lots of value in what Flair has to offer?

Aren't you a Flair pilot?

[MAX8 Driver]

I think there are great benefits to being at Flair, and the working relationship with the company and management is far superior to what the large carriers have to offer. I suppose it depends on what you value, and there's a lot of value in what Flair has to offer.

What are the great benefits? Where is there lots of value in what Flair has to offer?

Aren't you a Flair pilot?

Yes. I know what Flair has to offer, and why I personally value working for the company. I'm interested to hear other opinions.

[QKZXKV]

All this sounds like all that Teal-aid that was said back in the day about WestJet... look how that turned out.

[newlygrounded]

All this sounds like all that Teal-aid that was said back in the day about WestJet... look how that turned out.

And? Would you go to the employer that for sure will treat you shit or the one that might in a decade after you’re already on CA pay?

[QKZXKV]

All this sounds like all that Teal-aid that was said back in the day about WestJet... look how that turned out.

And? Would you go to the employer that for sure will treat you shit or the one that might in a decade after you’re already on CA pay?

In my experience, the employer will ALWAYS treat you that way. It's subtle to start with and then eventually it just boils over and is out in the open.

All I'm saying is, don't get to cheerleader like, it's bound to be a letdown in the future... welcome to Canada!

[Cajon Pass]

[/quote]

In all fairness, Westjet isn't losing highly experienced captains, except the 10 that were fired 16 months ago (but that's an entirely different discussion.)

Westjet's battle is recruiting and retaining the next generation of pilots.
[/quote]

Not entirely true, they have lost some senior captains. And some senior FOs, some with upgrades imminent, 8-10 years of seniority. That speaks volumes on the current environment. While the majority are junior folks from Encore/Swoop/Mainline that are leaving, if the the union and corp don’t hammer out a deal here soon, the exodus will continue.

[TheLastonetoknow]

In all fairness, Westjet isn't losing highly experienced captains, except the 10 that were fired 16 months ago (but that's an entirely different discussion.)

Westjet's battle is recruiting and retaining the next generation of pilots.
[/quote]

Not entirely true, they have lost some senior captains. And some senior FOs, some with upgrades imminent, 8-10 years of seniority. That speaks volumes on the current environment. While the majority are junior folks from Encore/Swoop/Mainline that are leaving, if the the union and corp don’t hammer out a deal here soon, the exodus will continue.
[/quote]

Will they? So far apart and with that, I don’t se an “11th hour” deal either. Such a sad place…

[Cajon Pass]

Will they? So far apart and with that, I don’t se an “11th hour” deal either. Such a sad place…

Will they? Anyone’s guess, but at the moment that isn’t looking likely, they’re gunning for lockout and arbitration I’d suggest, but hey, this is about Flair and not WJ.

[flyingpilot]

Any further updates on ground schools?
Thanks

[Wingsandrotors]

Any info on the may 23rd gs, and when invites will be going out?