Updated salary tables 2024

[CaptDukeNukem]

Great info @yowflyer

Guys/gals.
It’s too comprehensive and time consuming for someone to sit and make tables for every aspect of a contract. Yowflyer has done great service to post pay with MMG, and has adjusted it on the fly based on COLA increases and benchmarking. Everyone is looking for different things. Pay is generally the first point of contact. The rest can be done with a little legwork by calling some friends.

Thank you Yowflyer! Your tables help us greatly.

[Hysteria]

Figure I’d bump this and let whoever makes the tables do their thing now that Porters response to the AC TA is out

Here ya go:
(Edited to add 5T ATR + fixed Porter Q rates)

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Excellent work

[co-joe]

Figure I’d bump this and let whoever makes the tables do their thing now that Porters response to the AC TA is out

Here ya go:
(Edited to add 5T ATR + fixed Porter Q rates)

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Much appreciated

The Flair 2025 numbers starting tomorrow; 75 mmg
Captain
yr. hourly gross
1. $206.00 $185,400.00
2. $213.21 $191,889.00
3. $220.42 $198,378.00
4. $226.60 $203,940.00
5. $233.81 $210,429.00
6. $241.02 $216,918.00
7. $250.29 $225,261.00
8. $260.59 $234,531.00
9. $269.86 $242,874.00
10.$279.13 $251,217.00
11. $283.25 $254,925.00
12. $289.43 $260,487.00

First Officer
yr. hourly gross
1. $103.00 $92,700.00
2. $113.30 $101,970.00
3. $123.60 $111,240.00
4. $128.75 $115,875.00
5. $139.05 $125,145.00
6. $144.20 $129,780.00
7. $149.35 $134,415.00
8. $151.41 $136,269.00
9. $153.47 $138,123.00
10. $156.56 $140,904.00

[8895]

Figure I’d bump this and let whoever makes the tables do their thing now that Porters response to the AC TA is out

Here ya go:
(Edited to add 5T ATR + fixed Porter Q rates)

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I’m a little late with the response here but thank you! Doing gods work

[yowflyer23]

Latest update with updated Westjet/Flair pay.

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My personal opinion is that there is still so much work needed on FO starting pay throughout the industry. Time is the enemy with compound interest, so if you're investing your money for retirement, paying off student debt, etc. making more money early on is so much better for you in the long term than boosting year 12 pay, even if you'll spend the majority of your career there.

[usagi]

Latest update with updated Westjet/Flair pay.
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My personal opinion is that there is still so much work needed on FO starting pay throughout the industry. Time is the enemy with compound interest, so if you're investing your money for retirement, paying off student debt, etc. making more money early on is so much better for you in the long term than boosting year 12 pay, even if you'll spend the majority of your career there.

Thank you so much yowflyer23 for your work and Happy new year

[khedrei]

Time is the enemy with compound interest, so if you're investing your money for retirement, paying off student debt, etc. making more money early on is so much better for you in the long term than boosting year 12 pay, even if you'll spend the majority of your career there.

Trust me, it's not.

Just ask the "experts". ie cdnavater he'll explain how that works.

Oh wait, that was something else he's an expert at.

[Hysteria]

Time is the enemy with compound interest, so if you're investing your money for retirement, paying off student debt, etc. making more money early on is so much better for you in the long term than boosting year 12 pay, even if you'll spend the majority of your career there.

Trust me, it's not.

Just as the "experts". ie cdnavater he'll explain how that works.

Oh wait, that was something else he's an expert at.

[Hysteria]

Canadians should be making great money early on in any 705. Just like America. Year 1 high, year 12 high. Boom.

[co-joe]

Thanks for updating it, very interesting to see that a short time after WS's new CBA, Porter already pays $1 per hour more than them.

Alright industry, let's do Air Transat next!

Is there any hope the cargo operators and Canadian North will step up in any meaningful way?

[cdnavater]

Time is the enemy with compound interest, so if you're investing your money for retirement, paying off student debt, etc. making more money early on is so much better for you in the long term than boosting year 12 pay, even if you'll spend the majority of your career there.

Trust me, it's not.

Just as the "experts". ie cdnavater he'll explain how that works.

Oh wait, that was something else he's an expert at.

I see the circle jerk buddies are back together!

[Hysteria]

Trust me, it's not.

Just as the "experts". ie cdnavater he'll explain how that works.

Oh wait, that was something else he's an expert at.

I see the circle jerk buddies are back together!

Aha. Don’t even know either of you.

[GetAGripen]

Encore 2025 is:

CA
114.24
118.32
122.40
128.52
138.72
143.82
148.92
150.96
153.00

FO
73.44
75.48
77.52
79.56
81.60
83.64

[khedrei]

Trust me, it's not.

Just as the "experts". ie cdnavater he'll explain how that works.

Oh wait, that was something else he's an expert at.

I see the circle jerk buddies are back together!

Never seen his name before.

You can't seem to live by what you said and stop responding to me. Oh well. I'm still not going to pay rent though.

[cdnavater]

I see the circle jerk buddies are back together!

Never seen his name before.

You can't seem to live by what you said and stop responding to me. Oh well. I'm still not going to pay rent though.

No, I put you on my ignore list but Hysteria quoted you so here I am, pardon me though, I thought you two had stroked each others ego before.
As for the topic, I gave up, you offered opinion without showing your work.
Unless the bottom wages went up significantly and for the first 10 years I just don’t see how your theory holds any water!
Going from 80k to 100k is about 1000 per month in take home pay, not insignificant but when you’re talking 5k to 6k per month, not a lot of room for “investing”. If your monthly expense are eating up most of your monthly income, you are extremely optimistic thinking anyone in that position is investing or even doubling down on debt, they are just living slightly more comfortably at that point. So taking 20k from the top and giving it to the bottom doesn’t do what you are suggesting it will.
And again, I can’t stress this enough, the pilots on top scale have been screwed over and over and fuc king over for the last two decades, so them sacrificing higher raises for pilots at the bottom is, how do I put this, STUPID! I firmly believe the bottom wages should be fixed by the company and not using any bargaining capital to do it, the pilots who have not started at AC have the power to do that, they just need to collectively grow a pair! Oh but seniority, boo hoo, who cares, don’t take the job if it doesn’t meet your expectations and certainly don’t take the job and expect the union to work as hard for the bottom scale as they do the top, they see the benefit of compounding raises at a higher amount and for much longer than a few years.
The scale it seems, significantly improves at the 5 year mark, so year 6-35 you are making a lot more than you would if you had your way.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand the premise of investing less money earlier for compounding interest, I just don’t see it happening in your scenario, as I said above. Until you are comfortable and not living paycheque to paycheque, investing is the last thing on most pilots minds.
The bottom line is, I don’t see any good argument for taking from the top, those who have put their blood, sweat and tears into their long career, they earned it.
Most of the new hires are a few years in, yes most, of course some are expats coming home and again, I don’t care about your choice to leave and make more money because you knew the deal when you left, you were giving up the seniority ladder to chase metal and paycheque, should’ve stayed there or never left but life is about choices and how they affect the outcome of your career, not my problem to fix. As for the 2000 hour pilots coming in, I say, stay put until the company is begging you to join, by begging, I mean upping the pay but guess what, they don’t need to.

Look at Porter, why aren’t you talking about their FO pay, it’s a NB an only a couple bucks an hour more but no pension and pay your own benefits over there.
An AC FO will far out earn a Porter pilot even staying on the 220, if you upgrade at year 3, you’re already above Porter top pay, stay an FO and by the 3rd year you’re already above Porter and by year 5 you’re above top FO pay.

Here’s my question, how much would you take from the top and put to the bottom to make your utopian world? How much of that would need to be invested in the first 10 years to exceed the last 25 years at top scale?

[khedrei]

All of those questions were answered in a previous thread. I even showed all my work with an excel spreadsheet over 15 years. Maybe you shouldn't have put me on your ignor list or you would have seen it.

Today's money is worth more than tomorrows. Especially when you're making 300k + and it's just extra money and you're comparing it with not being able to afford to pay your bills. You might be right that over a 35 year career you could have more money when huge raises are given to the top. But how many boats do you need? Mr Jr is just trying to live. But we know you don't care. Screw the Jr guys. You've said it many times.

[thepoors]

All of those questions were answered in a previous thread. I even showed all my work with an excel spreadsheet over 15 years. Maybe you shouldn't have put me on your ignor list or you would have seen it.

Today's money is worth more than tomorrows. Especially when you're making 300k + and it's just extra money and you're comparing it with not being able to afford to pay your bills. You might be right that over a 35 year career you could have more money when huge raises are given to the top. But how many boats do you need? Mr Jr is just trying to live. But we know you don't care. Screw the Jr guys. You've said it many times.

Especially hilarious because cdnavater is at Jazz, not AC. So a regional lifer is telling mainline pilots what they're worth...wonder what his motive is...salty much?

[cdnavater]

All of those questions were answered in a previous thread. I even showed all my work with an excel spreadsheet over 15 years. Maybe you shouldn't have put me on your ignor list or you would have seen it.

Today's money is worth more than tomorrows. Especially when you're making 300k + and it's just extra money and you're comparing it with not being able to afford to pay your bills. You might be right that over a 35 year career you could have more money when huge raises are given to the top. But how many boats do you need? Mr Jr is just trying to live. But we know you don't care. Screw the Jr guys. You've said it many times.

Especially hilarious because cdnavater is at Jazz, not AC. So a regional lifer is telling mainline pilots what they're worth...wonder what his motive is...salty much?

Yah, so funny, hilarious even!
I never said what any pilot was worth, you’re worth what you negotiate or AND THIS IS THE BIG ONE SO PAY ATTENTION, WHAT YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT AS YOUR WORTH!
I have said the same thing regarding Jazz, you ever heard we don’t negotiate for the unborn, it’s true! It’s not our job to put any bargaining capital towards attracting new pilots, that is a company responsibility and if they have trouble filling classes, they will need to pony up.
Last year, when the Jazz MEC negotiated all Jazz pilots a raise, the company initially tried to only put money where the problem was, the MEC who negotiated our contract with the abysmal starting pay had said all along, they will need to fix it and when they do, it will be for all Jazz pilots.
We had our wages essentially frozen for years and the company only wanted to fix the bottom. That’s what they do, what our union did was force them to fix everyone’s wage. Then of course AC said no friggen way are we paying that and now we wait for the CIRB challenge to determine how much they interfered and the hope is, the original increase rumoured to be 42% will be restored. Also some reparations for the harm done for violating the contract in so many frig*en ways.
Point is, if it’s not enough don’t take the job, really fu cking simple!

[braaap Braap]

Man you guys ruined another thread with your bickering. Can one of you just be an adult, take the high ground and move on?

[cdnavater]

Man you guys ruined another thread with your bickering. Can one of you just be an adult, take the high ground and move on?

I did take the high road, I didn’t even respond to the childish comment about being a “regional lifer telling mainline pilots what their worth”

[khedrei]

He always takes the high road.

The name calling and the **&$@'ed out swear words are a tell tale sign of a person taking the high road.

So is pointing out "how" you took the high road.