Comair CRJ crashes in Kentucky

Schlem · Post by **Schlem** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:41 pm

co-joe wrote:
Oh. Well that's a dumb oversight on bombardier's part me thinks.

Boeing has the tiller on the left side as well so no taxiing by the F/O either.

BTD · Post by **BTD** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 3:18 pm

Schlem wrote:
co-joe wrote:
Oh. Well that's a dumb oversight on bombardier's part me thinks.
Boeing has the tiller on the left side as well so no taxiing by the F/O either.

I know thats true in most cases, but I remember when I was younger going up to the flight deck on a BA 737-300 or 500 (can't remember) and asked that question. On that aircraft the guys up front said they had the tiller on both sides.

So I guess there are a few boeings out there with the option... unless they lied to me. Mind you BA has some transfer of control stuff that they do a lot so maybe that has something to do with it. Dunno

twice_banned · Post by **twice_banned** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:51 pm

co-joe wrote:
Oh. Well that's a dumb oversight on bombardier's part me thinks. And yes a heading check would definitely help things. I do like the transfer of control idea when flying PMA's but that's a different situation.

I was under the impression that many bizjets also only have the tiller on the capt's side as well? I don't think it's an oversight, it's a conscious decision that reduces engineering and manufacturing costs.

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 5:51 pm

I think somebody mentioned the tower. They do have these really big windows? Do they use them? Pilot error...it looks like for sure...but even a casual glance from somebody in the tower could have saved the day?
We've all made mistakes. Just we've been lucky enough to avoid that one really BIG mistake.....so far.......

ajet32 · Post by **ajet32** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:03 pm

Ok as aCRJ 100 captain I do feel for these guys I know the morning routine and there is no other way to do it but that the captain taxis and the fo does the before t/o check. The airplane was designed that way. As are Boeings , Douglas and Fokker products. These I have also flown and all with a tiller on the left side only. The fo can steer on the runway and onto a high speed exit taxiway but thats it. Also after much discussion with two captains who have flown into Lexington we discovered it might be very easy to make the mistake. It had apparently happened a number of times but was always caught. Not this time. Also while we at my company do a heading check I have flown 2 large AC one Boeing and one Fokker where we did not. One was glass the other classic. I now see the need for it even though thru several 1000 hours on other types I never really missed the call.

WJflyer · Post by **WJflyer** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:04 am

Doc wrote:I think somebody mentioned the tower. They do have these really big windows? Do they use them? Pilot error...it looks like for sure...but even a casual glance from somebody in the tower could have saved the day?
We've all made mistakes. Just we've been lucky enough to avoid that one really BIG mistake.....so far.......

The controller was busy doing a traffic count, so he was not paying attention. Considering that it was a routine departure, and the crew was fairly experienced with the airplane type and airport layout, I think the controller on duty felt he could turn his back temporarily to get the adminstrative work done, as it was about time it should be done.

On top of that, the control tower was understaffed. The FAA required at that airport, 2 controllers to be on duty at all times. The contractor only had one controller on duty.

This accident appears to caused by a systematic failure of procedures. The FAA firstly did not properly staff the control tower with two controllers as required, ensuring more eyes in the tower that would have probally caught the pilot's error. The captain probally failed to check the checklist properly and look at the compass heading before handing control over to the first officer. The first officer failed to catch the captain's mistake in turning onto the wrong runway. On top of that, the pilots were not up to date with recent airport layout. Also, there is the issue of the runways and taxiways being sufficiently marked. Also, confusion over a previous day NOTAM regarding the runway lights being on the previous day not operable may have well contributed to this accident. Crew rest will also be brought up as a possible reason for the pilots making the mistake.

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 6:18 am

Dual tillers are an option on many aircraft. (including Airbus, Boeing, and Fokker)

Most airlines choose not to pay for this option.

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:19 am

Lost in Saigon wrote:Dual tillers are an option on many aircraft. (including Airbus, Boeing, and Fokker)

Most airlines choose not to pay for this option.

This is not some bitter right seat guy thing here, but how can you call it a two pilot airplane if only one pilot can taxi it? So if the capt looses control of the aircraft taxiing the fo can't take control if they wanted to? I've obviously never flown a large a/c so I guess I don't have the experience to make an informed opinion here.

Pratt X 3 · Post by **Pratt X 3** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:38 am

Wheel brakes are installed for your convienence on both sides of the cockpit and thrust reverser levers are within an easy reach from either seat. And if all else fails, left seat guy gets to do the carpet dance.

Flaps30Greenlight · Post by **Flaps30Greenlight** » Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:49 pm

Well I 'd like to start with My condolences to all who were involved. Ive picked up on a few things that may be relivant and where im a boeing driver and have no time on the RJ maybe some one who has time on one could clairify this.
In the 37 when we line up for a runway on our EHSI our heading is directly in font of us and sticks out like a soar thumb(the my-enta line) . This heading cursor is set from our MCP. For Ex . If you were departing Rwy 23 in YHZ you would set 234 in the MCP which also would corralate to the SID Rwy heading to 5000.My point is if i line up 40 degrees of center , you are going to notice a huge (magenta line ) where its not supose to be . and at night its more noticeable.
On the RJ wouldnt you get the same view ?
Also wondering if it was a intersection departure .That might explain the "no numbers in front of them theroy"

Flaps

Doc · Post by **Doc** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:53 am

If you honestly think installing a right hand tiller would have prevented this you are on drugs!
And, WJ, did you actually hit the "submit" after remarking that the tower contoller was too busy to look out the window? At 0600 in the morning? You were kidding...right? I'm not blaming the guy....but passing it off on "staffing"...give me a break!

co-joe · Post by **co-joe** » Sat Sep 02, 2006 10:42 am

Naw doc, too early in the morning for drugs. Unless you count this here cup of chamomile?

Rebel · Post by **Rebel** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:12 am

Re-moved

CD · Post by CD » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:17 am

Aviation disaster --a pilot's view

I live in Lexington and have thirty years of airline experience flying in and out of LEX. I was also the station liaison for Lexington for ten years

Here is what I think happened:

The two runways in question share the same common run-up area. The extended taxiway to the correct runway, runway 28 was closed due to construction. ...

...

I have 20,000 of heavy jet flying time and am type rated in the 727, 757, 767, 777, DC-8, DC-9 and L-1011.

This email has been floating around and posted on various sites for a while now. I can never seem to get past the fact that this individual claims to have 30 years of experience operating out of LEX, has thousands of hours of experience in various aircraft types, and still managed to screw up the runway heading.

Last time I checked, LEX has 04/22 and 08/26...

Airport Diagram - LEX

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:01 am

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/12/comair ... index.html

More info.