bobcaygeon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:09 am
Did anyone expect any different? The only two rail companies just happen to come to a labour impasse with Teamsters at the exactly same time. I'm sure that's just a coincidence. If ALPA were to do the same thing with AC and WJ you'd have to expect the same result.
According to the CBC articles, in your analogy it wouldn't have been ALPA, it would have been AC that asked for a contract extension resulting in both contracts opening up for negotiations. Here's another source: https://www.producer.com/news/why-canad ... -stoppage/
Contract talks between the Teamsters union and the companies usually take place a year apart, but in 2022, after the federal government introduced new rules on fatigue, CN requested a year-long extension to its existing deal rather than negotiate a new one.
This meant both companies’ labour agreements expired at the end of 2023 and talks have been ongoing since. As a result, for the first time, the failure of negotiations would halt the vast majority of the Canadian freight rail system.
The companies created this mess, intentionally or not.
---------- ADS -----------
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
bobcaygeon wrote: ↑Tue Aug 27, 2024 7:09 am
Did anyone expect any different? The only two rail companies just happen to come to a labour impasse with Teamsters at the exactly same time. I'm sure that's just a coincidence. If ALPA were to do the same thing with AC and WJ you'd have to expect the same result.
According to the CBC articles, in your analogy it wouldn't have been ALPA, it would have been AC that asked for a contract extension resulting in both contracts opening up for negotiations. Here's another source: https://www.producer.com/news/why-canad ... -stoppage/
Contract talks between the Teamsters union and the companies usually take place a year apart, but in 2022, after the federal government introduced new rules on fatigue, CN requested a year-long extension to its existing deal rather than negotiate a new one.
This meant both companies’ labour agreements expired at the end of 2023 and talks have been ongoing since. As a result, for the first time, the failure of negotiations would halt the vast majority of the Canadian freight rail system.
The companies created this mess, intentionally or not.
Given CN teamsters had not given strike notice but when CPKC gave strike notice, CN issued a lockout for the same time, I don’t think we really need to guess as to whether or not it was intentional.
When I visit 'the dentist', a dental hygienist spends about an hour with me, and I see an actual dentist for 5 minutes. I doubt more than 20% of what I pay goes to the person doing the actual work. That visit, with a common 80% insurance coverage, costs me the same as a visit in Western Europe to an actual dentist who spends an hour with me, without *any* insurance coverage.
Medical supplies in the US and Canada are so ridiculously overpriced, partially due to liability concerns, but at this point mainly 'because we can', that medical services are way more expensive than they need to be. And since I'm paying for private sector prices, I absolutely have the right to say I find services overpriced.
What can I say Toto “we’re not in Kansas anymore”. If it isn’t to your liking you can always go back.
JustaCanadian wrote: ↑Mon Aug 26, 2024 3:47 pm
I'm definitely happy to have private dental. I don't want to be on a 3 month waiting list if I need to get in for a filling.
needed an extraction(old root canal) called Thursday in Friday first thing
When I visit 'the dentist', a dental hygienist spends about an hour with me, and I see an actual dentist for 5 minutes. I doubt more than 20% of what I pay goes to the person doing the actual work. That visit, with a common 80% insurance coverage, costs me the same as a visit in Western Europe to an actual dentist who spends an hour with me, without *any* insurance coverage.
Medical supplies in the US and Canada are so ridiculously overpriced, partially due to liability concerns, but at this point mainly 'because we can', that medical services are way more expensive than they need to be. And since I'm paying for private sector prices, I absolutely have the right to say I find services overpriced.
What can I say Toto “we’re not in Kansas anymore”. If it isn’t to your liking you can always go back.
I hope you see the irony in your post. I'm defending our current Canadian system we have, against the suggestion of more privatisation in our healthcare system.
Would the discussion benefit from me making such statements as "if you don't like it, you're always welcome to leave" ? Or would you perhaps acknowledge that's a bit silly?
---------- ADS -----------
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
The bigger issue is inflation. This is why I am on the workers side here. It’s contextual, and the right thing to do.
The double standards on how public sector employees are treated (richer contracts without battles, work at home is fine, all kinds of radical left wing propaganda funded by their unions without nary a word from the media or politicians) — vs private sector — often conservative voters — who are demonized just for negotiating — its sickening.
Government is totally in favour of supporting workers — but only those supporting a DEI , left wing agenda.
Meanwhile they are importing voters, paying their bills, and those of us who work hard for many years, get priced out of housing and everything else.
In that correct context, its pretty gross to say 4000 workers are holding up an entire economy.
Which public servants? There are 3 levels of government. If you're talking about federal, most got less than inflation for the new contracts, and are being forced into the office 3 days a week across the board regardless of whether they need to go in or not. Don't we want less people blocking the roads and less real estate waste?
Whenever I see public sector unions strike or ask for a raise, again usually below inflation tons of papers demonize them. I remember seeing a 0.5% increase, how is that unreasonable?
TORONTO - Ontario Provincial Police officers are now the highest paid in the province, their union says, after they ratified a four-year deal last week.
The contract covers 2023 to 2026 and the officers will see raises of 4.75 per cent retroactive to the first year of the deal, followed by an increase of 4.5 per cent in the second year and 2.75 per cent raises in each of the last two years of the deal.
In the meantime, the Ontario Conservatives enacted Bill 124 in November 2019, which imposed a 1% cap per year on compensation increases for all employees in the public sector for three years. After it was found unconstitutional in court, the government is now on the hook for over $6 billion in compensation.
I don't agree with fords bill and neither did the courts! I'm totally ok with them getting a single digit raise especially seeing how much worse dealing with the public has became!
rookiepilot wrote: ↑Sat Aug 24, 2024 9:34 am
Not interested in arguing what is blatantly obvious in our world. Things look different once you move out of Mommas basement.
And I’m talking about the reams of bureaucrats , experts, fat desk occupiers, hired by this government, not first responders, so skip the gaslighting before it starts.
Who are they exactly? At least on the Federal side the pay is basically the same across Canada, though isolated posts get a stipend.
Who are you expecting to attract in Toronto or Vancouver for $57,000? Your take home is smaller because of the 10% taken off for your pension. How much is dealing with phoneix worth to you?
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:24 pm
2. Every pilot I meet cannot imagine doing any other job! I can't say the same about accountants, admin staff, auditor etc.
You're probably meeting like-minded pilots, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I personally know 4 pilots that have left a variety of pilot jobs and 2 more that are in the process of looking for alternatives. None would just have brought it up though, especially not to an openly "pilot-for-life" kind of colleague. But if you enquire about hobbies or side hustles, and the conversation goes to 'would you ever see yourself leave aviation to do that full time', you'll get some surprising answers.
It's interesting to see what this -admittedly tiny- sample of pilots have in common. All of them had an alternative employment option: a side hustle, diploma or secondary career. All of them still love flying and were active in the general aviation scene. They also all left commercial aviation voluntarily, they all had a job or a job offer but decided to leave or turn it down.
Even on this forum there are a few posters that have switched to alternative careers. They are out there. And if the AC contract doesn't turn out to be a significant improvement, I think quite a few will follow.
---------- ADS -----------
As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
Something along the lines of survivorship bias. Pilots who could see themselves leaving the profession tend to leave.
Anyone who has been a Flight Instructor knows just how many students don't cross the Commercial Multi-IFR finish line. Those that do, might not have the same long tourney to a 705 carrier that pilots in past decades had, but they still have invested a huge amount of money into their training and quitting isn't an easy choice.
Back to the topic at hand, the Federal Governments meddling in the railway lockout has all but ensured air travel disruptions within the next month. The Feds have demonstrated to Air Canada executive management that if they lockout the pilot group that there is a strong possibility that the Feds will follow the same process.
Lockout= Public outrage = Government coming to the rescue
I'm not saying it's a great plan, painless for the airline or guaranteed to result in the pilots being forced into binding arbitration (which we all know is illegal). However, you can certainly see that given the amount of money on the table, they are going to try. Make no mistake binding arbitration is a massive win for the company, even the possibility of it happening has altered the company's strategy.
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:24 pm
2. Every pilot I meet cannot imagine doing any other job! I can't say the same about accountants, admin staff, auditor etc.
You're probably meeting like-minded pilots, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I personally know 4 pilots that have left a variety of pilot jobs and 2 more that are in the process of looking for alternatives. None would just have brought it up though, especially not to an openly "pilot-for-life" kind of colleague. But if you enquire about hobbies or side hustles, and the conversation goes to 'would you ever see yourself leave aviation to do that full time', you'll get some surprising answers.
It's interesting to see what this -admittedly tiny- sample of pilots have in common. All of them had an alternative employment option: a side hustle, diploma or secondary career. All of them still love flying and were active in the general aviation scene. They also all left commercial aviation voluntarily, they all had a job or a job offer but decided to leave or turn it down.
Even on this forum there are a few posters that have switched to alternative careers. They are out there. And if the AC contract doesn't turn out to be a significant improvement, I think quite a few will follow.
Good post, I personally have an engineering background working for big US tech companies. Back when I worked in tech, I was paid well, had a fully remote work environment, and a good work life balance. If this contract doesn't significantly improve it will be hard to keep the motivation to stay at AC because I know how much my skills are worth outside of aviation.
newlygrounded wrote: ↑Wed Aug 28, 2024 6:24 pm
2. Every pilot I meet cannot imagine doing any other job! I can't say the same about accountants, admin staff, auditor etc.
You're probably meeting like-minded pilots, and I don't mean that in a bad way. I personally know 4 pilots that have left a variety of pilot jobs and 2 more that are in the process of looking for alternatives. None would just have brought it up though, especially not to an openly "pilot-for-life" kind of colleague. But if you enquire about hobbies or side hustles, and the conversation goes to 'would you ever see yourself leave aviation to do that full time', you'll get some surprising answers.
It's interesting to see what this -admittedly tiny- sample of pilots have in common. All of them had an alternative employment option: a side hustle, diploma or secondary career. All of them still love flying and were active in the general aviation scene. They also all left commercial aviation voluntarily, they all had a job or a job offer but decided to leave or turn it down.
Even on this forum there are a few posters that have switched to alternative careers. They are out there. And if the AC contract doesn't turn out to be a significant improvement, I think quite a few will follow.
Good post, I personally have an engineering background working for big US tech companies. Back when I worked in tech, I was paid well, had a fully remote work environment, and a good work life balance. If this contract doesn't significantly improve it will be hard to keep the motivation to stay at AC because I know how much my skills are worth outside of aviation.
You’ve been saying this for a while now, while you have been saying this there have been half a million layofffs in the tech industry, are your skills more in demand than those already on the street?
According to Layoffs.fyi, 384 tech companies have laid off more than 124,000 employees in 2024, adding to the 428,449 tech workers who lost their jobs in 2022 and 2023. While the broader labor market has shown some resilience, the tech sector's cuts are particularly visible due to the sheer scale of these companies.Aug 19, 2024
Tech is definitely one industry where you are extremely replaceable unless you can code better than CHAT GPT-4 or complete financially with a 16 year old from Mumbai.
You have to have creative ideas that nobody else has to make it. You can’t just grind daily like a mindless flying job.
‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 2:47 pm
Tech is definitely one industry where you are extremely replaceable unless you can code better than CHAT GPT-4 or complete financially with a 16 year old from Mumbai.
You have to have creative ideas that nobody else has to make it. You can’t just grind daily like a mindless flying job.
I'm honestly so surprised the Tech industry didn't fire 75% of their employees yet, 124,000 employees in 2024, adding to the 428,449 tech workers who lost their jobs in 2022 and 2023 is peanuts.
You can literally have chat GPT write you any code you want in any language. All you need now is 1 person that puts the classes together to compile them, not the 9 others that were coding it.
‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 2:47 pm
Tech is definitely one industry where you are extremely replaceable unless you can code better than CHAT GPT-4 or complete financially with a 16 year old from Mumbai.
You have to have creative ideas that nobody else has to make it. You can’t just grind daily like a mindless flying job.
I'm honestly so surprised the Tech industry didn't fire 75% of their employees yet, 124,000 employees in 2024, adding to the 428,449 tech workers who lost their jobs in 2022 and 2023 is peanuts.
You can literally have chat GPT write you any code you want in any language. All you need now is 1 person that puts the classes together to compile them, not the 9 others that were coding it.
I don't think I've ever seen such a strong misunderstanding of how the industry works
‘Bob’ wrote: ↑Sat Aug 31, 2024 2:47 pm
Tech is definitely one industry where you are extremely replaceable unless you can code better than CHAT GPT-4 or complete financially with a 16 year old from Mumbai.
You have to have creative ideas that nobody else has to make it. You can’t just grind daily like a mindless flying job.
I'm honestly so surprised the Tech industry didn't fire 75% of their employees yet, 124,000 employees in 2024, adding to the 428,449 tech workers who lost their jobs in 2022 and 2023 is peanuts.
You can literally have chat GPT write you any code you want in any language. All you need now is 1 person that puts the classes together to compile them, not the 9 others that were coding it.
I don't think I've ever seen such a strong misunderstanding of how the industry works
Imagine thinking chatgpt4 is a replacement for a software engineer
It’s like those neophytes who thinks we’re moments away from AI powered self taxiing planes …
---------- ADS -----------
Complex systems won’t survive the competence crisis
When I visit 'the dentist', a dental hygienist spends about an hour with me, and I see an actual dentist for 5 minutes. I doubt more than 20% of what I pay goes to the person doing the actual work. That visit, with a common 80% insurance coverage, costs me the same as a visit in Western Europe to an actual dentist who spends an hour with me, without *any* insurance coverage.
Medical supplies in the US and Canada are so ridiculously overpriced, partially due to liability concerns, but at this point mainly 'because we can', that medical services are way more expensive than they need to be. And since I'm paying for private sector prices, I absolutely have the right to say I find services overpriced.
What can I say Toto “we’re not in Kansas anymore”. If it isn’t to your liking you can always go back.
I hope you see the irony in your post. I'm defending our current Canadian system we have, against the suggestion of more privatisation in our healthcare system.
Would the discussion benefit from me making such statements as "if you don't like it, you're always welcome to leave" ? Or would you perhaps acknowledge that's a bit silly?
I am for complete privatization.
The path we are on will soon mean you get access to government services like dental and health care based on your voting record.
As happens in other countries.
I am utterly sick of our dysfunctional system where everyone with a headache and sniffles clutters up the whole works.
Just wait, at the doctor you will soon have to sign a Liberal created agreement of beliefs — remember when that happened?
I think he had no choice, liberals are an anchor around his party’s neck, the only hope he has is to distance them from liberals before the next election, whenever that may be!