A serious discussion about marijuana.

[seniorpumpkin]

Well put "Just another canuck", and thank you Sulako for the much needed reality check here!
I find it very sad that some posters who I respect are so ignorant to the effects of smoking pot. Being ignorant is forgivable, but preaching and spreading falsehoods is really disappointing.
A non pot smoker talking about the effects of smoking pot is the exact same as a 200 hour wonder talking about how to fly a 737, actually it's more like a non-pilot talking about how to fly a 737. If you haven't smoked pot, you simply cannot understand it's effects very well. Even for those who have, it can be difficult to understand how pot effects different people in different ways. There is way too much propaganda that has been published about this issue to expect to have a good understanding of the effects of pot smoking without some first hand experience.
I'll go on record as saying that despite pot being a much less harmful drug than than alcohol, I have chosen to abstain simply because I don't want to jeopardize my career. Sadly there are are still too many people who perceive pot to be the brain melting, life destroying "drug" that their parents told them it is.

[AUGER9]

Just because someone is preaching against doesn't mean they weren't a regular smoker before and know the effects very well.

As a professional pilot, key word professional, I stopped for various reasons, none of which have anything to do with the 'effects' of it...

[xsbank]

Actually, I agree with the legalize/tax crowd, but I think that ALL drugs should be legal. I don't think there are many that are worse than alcohol and it would throw a lot of scumsuckers out of work and get a lot of Hummers off the road. The health risks are already borne by the yahoos that use the drugs now and we would be able to get better quality drugs than are out there now, the addicts would be able to function normally and get jobs so they wouldn't have to kill cab drivers for a fix and the needle-borne diseases would be eliminated. I have never actually been able to rustle up an argument FOR making drugs illegal, to me it makes no sense whatsoever. The people who have a proclivity to need illicit drugs are already using them and the high quality/controlled/taxed drugs that would be out there would eliminate, oh, 75% of the crime in Vancouver.

I still would have no use for them, even if legal (mmmmmm Guinnessssss )

I still think that pilots who use them, well, you know.

[B-rad]

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[B-rad]

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[AUGER9]

And who would you want as your brain surgeon? someone who is always hoped up on other crap cuz its legal and has social acceptance even tho thos medical drugs have side effects that you don't even know how deep they go. you'd just like to belive it doesn't happen but it goes unnoticed cuz its legal. ok maybe a little closer to reality, a brain surgeon who was hammered saturday night. you think he never drinks? maybe it was this weekend he did.

I wouldn't want either actually....

Just because I don't want a surgeon (or pilot) who smokes pot, doesn't mean I want someone who drinks etc. Comparing weed to drinking and hard drugs still doesn't justify it, no matter how you say it.

[lilfssister]

I just checked the poll results on this. Interesting to say the least. 30/30/40 split is the closest I've seen on ANY avcanada poll, I think.

To echo some previous posts:

DO you want your surgeon?

ER doc?

ATC?

Fireman?

Ambulance driver or EMT?

School Bus driver with your kids on board?

either hungover, or day 1-2-3 after a drug or alcohol "bender",

responsible for your or your family's lives?

If you're on some 1-2-3 month in the back of beyond sked, with 3,4,5 or more weeks off before you go back...go wild! Smoke yr brains out. Drink yrself into a puddle on the floor.

For a day or seven.

[sky's the limit]

Lil,

Half the people you mentioned are probably already stoners.....

Nobody is talking about going to work stoned, drunk, or otherwise.... In your free time, do as you wish regardless of your occupation, Stephen Harper does, why shouldn't you???

stl

[E-Flyer]

I especially like that one. I'm assuming that you mean "The smoke given off by burning marijuana can intoxicate your body" rather than the simple smell. If you are actually coming here and posting that the actual smell of unburned marijuana alone can get someone stoned, I'm sorry but that is a completely asinine thing to say, and I can't take you seriously any more and won't bother replying to your responses.

It does however make me giggle to think of a guy bringing that as a defense to a trial. "Your honor, I wasn't smoking at all, but my friend had some that wasn't in a sealed bag, and I happened to smell it. I remember getting really hungry for Doritos, and that's when I must have blacked out and hit the school bus full of Russian Orphans."

Which brings me to urine testing for marijuana use. The thing about it that is stupid is that it can't tell if you are actually stoned, it can only tell if you may have been exposed to marijuana in the past few weeks

Sul... wow. I've lost so much respect for you.

I really could care less if you would respond to my posts or not. If you feel this strongly about marijuana, relax, go and smoke some, but don't call your self a pilot. And I rather have somebody respond to my posts who isn't stoned on a Sunday afternoon posting crap on the internet. So much for that.

I don't care if it's better than alcohol, both of them are bad practices, and a professional pilot should not do it.

You're getting way too worked up over this. It's quite funny and sad how a "professional pilot" is getting so angry over marijuana. This shouldn't even be a topic of discussion for a set of "professional pilots" But it looks like talking about marijuana does hurt some people on a personal level. I feel sorry for you. Years of flying to diminish your respect by agreeing that it's okay to basically drug your self up.


Good luck with your flying endeavors dude.

[Sulako]

Sul... wow. I've lost so much respect for you.

I really could care less if you would respond to my posts or not. If you feel this strongly about marijuana, relax, go and smoke some, but don't call your self a pilot. And I rather have somebody respond to my posts who isn't stoned on a Sunday afternoon posting crap on the internet. So much for that.

I don't care if it's better than alcohol, both of them are bad practices, and a professional pilot should not do it.

You're getting way too worked up over this. It's quite funny and sad how a "professional pilot" is getting so angry over marijuana. This shouldn't even be a topic of discussion for a set of "professional pilots" But it looks like talking about marijuana does hurt some people on a personal level. I feel sorry for you. Years of flying to diminish your respect by agreeing that it's okay to basically drug your self up.


Good luck with your flying endeavors dude.

E-Flyer
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 11:43 pm
Posts: 420

First of all, I love that this was your 420th post, but I'm a little disappointed you didn't explain your previous post a little better.

Where did I say I was hurt or angry? You are the one who sounds wounded that I exposed your ignorance with regards to this particular issue. I have no problem with you expressing your opinion that smoking pot is harmful and shouldn't be part of an aviator's life under any circumstances, but I do have a problem when you take things you read from the University of Your Own Butt and post them as fact, like how the smell of pot alone can get a person high, or that smoking a joint can mess you up for weeks. Think about that first part again for a second... if the smell alone got people high, they wouldn't have to smoke it and a single joint could last weeks, if not months until the smell faded.

Anyway, let's deconstruct your post a little bit, so I can get this straight... I call you out on your obvious BS post and you respond by saying that we shouldn't even be talking about this, and that I am clearly a pot-smoking hippie because I happen to believe that a) pot isn't particularly harmful and b) if a person wants to smoke a joint on their own time, I have no problem with it as long as it doesn't affect their performance at work.

Again, what happens on a person's time off is their own business - flying is a career and a passion, but it's not slavery and we aren't on duty 100% of the time.

Not that it's any of your damn business, but I would pass a drug test right now if someone put a gun to my head and forced me to endure the degrading process of peeing into a bottle in front of a total stranger. Again, that's not actually relevant at all when responding to my posts, but I thought I'd put it out there so perhaps you'd understand that not everyone who thinks pot is relatively harmless actually smokes a bushel a day.

But I'm getting ahead of myself a bit...Let's go back to your initial post where you said that merely the smell of pot alone is enough to get a person stoned. Please, please clarify that for me.

I don't care if it's better than alcohol, both of them are bad practices, and a professional pilot should not do it.

I'm thinking you might want to clarify that as well...it sounds like you are saying that professional pilots shouldn't drink on their time off either. Or is that okay?

[C23flyer]

For me, it is an issue of legality only. Do I want to entrust my life to someone who shows disregard for rules and regulations. Like it or not, pot is not legal (yet?), and until it is, a pilot who imbibes at any time is breaking a law. It matters not whether the police would charge with so little in your possession. Maybe there are some CARs that you don't particularly like either, and when no one is looking, just kind of don't bother following. I'm not suggesting that we blindly follow laws that are in effect. There is a process by which we can question and propose changes.

But then again, my pot-smoking kids call me Mr. Safety.

PS: Sully,

University of Your Own Butt

. LOL. Can I use that?

[Sulako]

C23 - you may

I would never suggest to a person that they should smoke pot, nor am I suggesting that it's okay to break any of our laws, like speeding or copying music or cheating on taxes...they all bring about consequences if caught. Yes I would like the law changed to legalize and tax pot, but I'm thinking that's a subject for an entirely different post.

I'm saying that from a physiological perspective, a pilot's performance is back to normal within 48 hours (at most) after smoking a joint. That's according to the various gov't studies I have already quoted in previous posts.

I understand that it might upset people who are happy to bury their heads in the sand on this topic and continue to view marijuana as Eggo the mind waffler, but that's not my concern. I'm a lot more interested in having a debate with informed people.

Last but not least, whether or not the risk is worth it is up to each individual, as each person's circumstances are different. I totally respect a person's decision to abstain from any drugs throughout their entire career, and I respect a person's choice to light one up once in a while, as long as it doesn't affect their ability to show up for work and give 100%.

[E-Flyer]

Professional Vocab Sul, I'll remember that one.

University of Your Own Butt.

And you're actively flying professionally eh?

If you don't agree that the affects of having a strong scent of marijuana does the slightest affect when at Altitude, you're speaking from your own so called "butt."

It's like second hand smokers.

Afterall, why are we even having a discussion about marijuana? aren't we pilot's. This is a stupid post but since people feel so strongly about how it's illegal, I rather post my reasons for why it should be kept illegal.

I personally don't drink, and my comment about comparing marijuana and alcohol was just getting to the point that the use of drugs in general should not be part of a pilot's life. Now if it's a culture that pilot's drink and have a good time, they can have at it. But smoking a joint, stupid. You know who else smokes a joint? homeless hobos in the worst part of town. Maybe that's where pilot's belong, afterall we make so much money.

I may have 420 posts, but I've been a long time reader bud. Wrong way to base your facts. Might want to turn to the UYOB. I love how there's already a shortened name for it.

[Sulako]

"If you don't agree that the affects of having a strong scent of marijuana does the slightest affect when at Altitude, you're speaking from your own so called "butt." It's like second hand smokers."

So where did you get this particular piece of information? Because nobody else on the face of the earth has the same info you are privy to, I would love to see the source of your knowledge on this subject. Now to pick apart your grammar - Smelling pot is like second hand smokers? What is a second hand smoker anyway? Is that when a smoker buys a used cigarette? Yeah, now I'm just being silly, but I just can't take your supposition seriously.

"Afterall, why are we even having a discussion about marijuana? aren't we pilot's."

Why shouldn't we have a discussion on this? I'm curious as to the list of topics that professional pilots should not be allowed to discuss. Besides pot smoking, are there any subjects that we should strive to remain ignorant of?

"Now if it's a culture that pilot's drink and have a good time, they can have at it"

That sentence is so very full of fail. Perhaps you should rethink it.

"You know who else smokes a joint? homeless hobos in the worst part of town. Maybe that's where pilot's belong, afterall we make so much money."

You know who else smokes a joint? Regular people who don't like drinking. I even saw a rich guy smoke a joint once at a party, but maybe he was slumming.

Finally, I'm sad that you completely missed my 420 reference, but I also understand why. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to this topic, and I'm done with you.

For your education, should you decide to learn more...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_(cannabis_culture)

[Cat Driver]

And you're actively flying professionally eh?

Yup he is and I'd fly as a passenger with him anytime he showed up to work.

So tell us what your qualifications as a pilot are E-flyer?

[xsbank]

Back in the dim reaches of time when people were allowed to smoke on a/c, I took Loverboy (antique rock band) from Vancouver to Seattle on a 'Jo to do a New Year's gig. After they finished, I took them back to Vancouver to do another New Year's thing. On the way back, they smoked up and I started to feel quite impaired; I had to ask them to butt out as I was beginning to enjoy myself too. Fun was over when I got back to Van and the the fog had rolled in and I proceeded to shoot an ils to mins without an autopilot (another stupid thing we were 'allowed' to do back then). We were all killed.

I am catagorically stating that 2nd hand dope smoke WILL impair you.

I seriously doubt that the smell of non-combusting dope will have any effect whatsoever.

[niss]

I'm curious as to the list of topics that professional pilots should not be allowed to discuss.

Your company requiring training bonds, lest ye get shit canned.

On a more relevant note I personally believe that based on the many people I know who do dance with mary jane, most are great guys and gals but unfortunately most try to justify it with thoughts similar to 'well its better than alcohol'.

The problem is that most stoners (full time or part time) tend to dismiss it as harmless and seem to be content with using it in places it shouldnt be used (i.e driving, operating heavy machinery, etc).

Alot of them feel its perfectly safe to go under the speed limit and drive like everyone is a cop. Also most of the people I know tend to not be a once a weeker.

This to me is a reason I don't condone pot use among pilots period, the idea being that of all the people I know they are all able to rationalize why its ok to get high, any time any place.

[E-Flyer]

Agreed.

Cat, talking to you is like going around in circles. There's no point. So I might as well act as the bigger person and not get into an online fist fight with you. It's pointless, Charlie.

Regardless of both you and your friends level of experience, I've lost respect for both of you. After all you're the "seniors" of these boards and to some extent show up as examples. The fact that you support a pilot that is 100% for the smoking of marijuana shows to me that you're both unprofessional; I can't even take these boards for real anymore, it's all a joke. Sorry, but I am sure many agree with me regarding this.

Sul, I don't need to know anything more about smoking marijuana except for the fact that it is wrong. Is there a harm in not liking the idea of pilot's smoking marijuana?

It's mutual, we have nothing to say to each other as obviously we live with two different perspectives.

Cheers

[Mclovin]

Hahaha the ignorance on this board is comical. I seriously think some people on this board could use a hit from the ole bong. Really guys chill out.

[Cat Driver]

I'm sorry you don't have respect for sully and me E-flyer.

I'm going to give you even more reason to not respect me because I am an alcoholic and having lived with alcoholism for many years I can state from experience that alcohol is as destructive or maybe more so than smoking dope.

I do not see where either Sully or I support pilots using any drug.

I do however feel that all drugs should be legalized and let the addicts have at it, there would be far less crime if the addicts did not have to steal to do drugs.

[YoungPunk]

I do however feel that all drugs should be legalized and let the addicts have at it, there would be far less crime if the addicts did not have to steal to do drugs.

I have to agree with this. Plus if it's legal the govt. would inevitably control the contents of a "pack of joints" better than your average drug dealer. I have seen what laced pot does to a guy and it ain't pretty!

[sissyphus]

In order to keep a $100 a day crack habit, you'd have to steal about $1000 a day in goods. The government could synthetically reproduce heroine/crack cocaine at about 75 cents.

If you neglect the "moral" issue, synthetic crack made in a lab could save 999.25 dollars worth of crime per user.

But drugs are wrong and evil, except those from corporations.



"By making marijuana illegal, you're saying God f@cked up" Bill Hicks

[iflyforpie]

But the government wouldn't think that way.

They would say "Hey, we can make crack/cocaine/heroin/maryj/etc for xx dollars, then tax the shit out of it since junkies/druggies/hippies/etc were already paying xxxxx dollars for it."

It would still be a controlled substance (controlled by the government) and there would still be the backwoods types and organized underworld types who would try and undercut the government by growing/processing it and selling it illegally. And there would still be the police forces wasting time trying to nab these guys.

['effin hippie]

Dear God, where, OH WHERE, is CS&J?

ef

[hazatude]

How the @#$! does someone let a person's view on weed affect their respect level for them?