Well,
I guess the only way to really understand it would be standing on the wrong end of a gun or a tazer in the hands of one of these individuals.
And if they are out there, it doesnt matter if you think you will never be in that situation, it will be up to them not you. 24 seconds or not...
Taser photographer sues RCMP
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, North Shore
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
We can argue for ever here on Avcanada.
But the facts are that video is being seen all over the planet.
It is prime time gold for the TV media.....interesting to hear Fox's Shepard Smith comment that in the video he used hand gestures indicating O.K. what do you want me to do.
He then went on to say the Polish Government is getting involved, as they have every right to do.
This is a @#$! up on a mammoth scale for the Vancouver Airport Authority and the RCMP.
What makes this a real problem is the quality of the video and the fact it was released to the media, so fasten your seat belts this one is going to get interesting.
For me it is the mother who I cry for.
But the facts are that video is being seen all over the planet.
It is prime time gold for the TV media.....interesting to hear Fox's Shepard Smith comment that in the video he used hand gestures indicating O.K. what do you want me to do.
He then went on to say the Polish Government is getting involved, as they have every right to do.
This is a @#$! up on a mammoth scale for the Vancouver Airport Authority and the RCMP.
What makes this a real problem is the quality of the video and the fact it was released to the media, so fasten your seat belts this one is going to get interesting.
For me it is the mother who I cry for.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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5400AirportRdSouth
- Rank 5
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- Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:23 am
There I completely agree with you Cat, there is enough room for interpretation/opinions of the cops' actions ( as evidenced by the variety of responses here ) that those cops don't stand a chance with this thing blowing up as big as it is.
At the end of the day, a man who at worst was being difficult, lost his life. I don't think anyone would argue that his death is an absolute tragedy.
At the end of the day, a man who at worst was being difficult, lost his life. I don't think anyone would argue that his death is an absolute tragedy.
Remember, only YOU can stop Narcissism
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mellow_pilot
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Too true.5400AirportRdSouth wrote: I don't think anyone would argue that his death is an absolute tragedy.
There are plenty of ways to get a gun into an airport. Not that the assumption was that he had a gun, but as we all know, airport security isn't exactly foolproof. And he didn't just get off a secure flight. He'd been there quite some time. Tasers are hardly new, and trigger happy? Now it's my turn for the c'mon. Cops get to carry and use these things all the time, the novelty wears off quickly... ask me if I'm really dying to go to the range and rip off a few rounds.Are you really implying that the police were to assume that a man getting off a secure flight, has come through security, customs & immigration, has a Glock or any other type of weapon on him?
Come on...they were trigger happy and WANTING to shock someone with their new toy!
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
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BoostedNihilist
Excellent post BoostedN.
I do agree with much of what you said, and as I stated in my first post, I quite often find myself defending the police much more than condemning them.
This one just seems like they were too quick on the draw and just wanted to 'take him down' rather than 'help him out'.
This guy didn't seem violent towards the police, nor did he turn and run. Why not just stand there for a minute and let everyone calm down while a translator is called. Ask for his ID. Immigation must have asked him where in Canada he was visiting, why not call that number. Did they have a translator in immigration? If not, why did they decide to let him go if they couldn't speak to him.
It just seems like the police decided on the 'path of least effort' rather than the path that would be the best and smartest.
Incidentally, I'd like to hear your opinion on why they didn't try to revive him. Police are trained for this are they not?
I do agree with much of what you said, and as I stated in my first post, I quite often find myself defending the police much more than condemning them.
This one just seems like they were too quick on the draw and just wanted to 'take him down' rather than 'help him out'.
This guy didn't seem violent towards the police, nor did he turn and run. Why not just stand there for a minute and let everyone calm down while a translator is called. Ask for his ID. Immigation must have asked him where in Canada he was visiting, why not call that number. Did they have a translator in immigration? If not, why did they decide to let him go if they couldn't speak to him.
It just seems like the police decided on the 'path of least effort' rather than the path that would be the best and smartest.
Incidentally, I'd like to hear your opinion on why they didn't try to revive him. Police are trained for this are they not?
Some very good, intelligent arguments made here on both sides. Had the police made some attempt at reviving this unfortunate person, the damage done would have certainly been mitigated, and the ongoing of this mess might not be turning out quite as bad as it is.
You will never live long enough to know it all, so quit being anal about it..
Actually, there is a 24-hour translation service at YVR in 125 different languages available over the phone. Why the security guards didn't try calling that number is very strange to me.1900guy wrote:Did they have a translator in immigration?
Also, there are paramedics onsite at YVR that could have responded very quickly. Why they were not called is also very strange to me.
It seems the airport security are not totally blameless, IMHO, as they should know about both the translation services offered as well as the paramedics at the airport. Crucial information that wasn't passed to the police, apparently.
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Nietzsche
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Driving Rain
- Rank 10
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- Location: At a Tanker Base near you.
- Contact:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/ ... 72-ap.html
It could be worse it could be Saudi Arabia.
Women to get 200 lashes for being gang raped.
I doubt if anyone could survive 200 lashes
Saudi court sentences rape victim to jail, lashes: report
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - A Saudi court sentenced a woman who was gang raped to six months in jail and 200 lashes - more than doubling her initial penalty for being in the car of a man who was not a relative, a newspaper reported Thursday.
The decision by the Qatif General Court came in a case that had sparked rare debate about the kingdom's justice system when it surfaced more than a year ago.
In its decision Wednesday, the court also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the 19-year-old woman, the Arab News reported on its English-language website.
Arab News reported the court said the woman's punishment was increased because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."
She had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting of violating rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.
Under Saudi Arabia's interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.
The initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison. Their new sentences range from two to nine years, the paper said.
The attack took place in 2006. The woman has said it occurred as she tried to retrieve her picture from a male high school student she used to know. While in the car with the student, two men climbed into the vehicle and drove to a secluded area. She said she was raped by seven men, three of whom also attacked her friend.
Reports of the story triggered debate about Saudi Arabia's legal system, in which judges have wide discretion in punishing a criminal, rules of evidence are shaky and sometimes no defence lawyers are present. The result, critics say, are sentences left to the whim of judges.
The woman was identified in the media only as the Girl from Qatif. The case was referred back to the General Court by an appeals court last summer, after the woman's lawyer argued the verdict was too lenient for the rapists and unjust for the victim.
It could be worse it could be Saudi Arabia.
Women to get 200 lashes for being gang raped.
I doubt if anyone could survive 200 lashes
Saudi court sentences rape victim to jail, lashes: report
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia - A Saudi court sentenced a woman who was gang raped to six months in jail and 200 lashes - more than doubling her initial penalty for being in the car of a man who was not a relative, a newspaper reported Thursday.
The decision by the Qatif General Court came in a case that had sparked rare debate about the kingdom's justice system when it surfaced more than a year ago.
In its decision Wednesday, the court also roughly doubled prison sentences for the seven men convicted of raping the 19-year-old woman, the Arab News reported on its English-language website.
Arab News reported the court said the woman's punishment was increased because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."
She had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting of violating rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.
Under Saudi Arabia's interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.
The initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison. Their new sentences range from two to nine years, the paper said.
The attack took place in 2006. The woman has said it occurred as she tried to retrieve her picture from a male high school student she used to know. While in the car with the student, two men climbed into the vehicle and drove to a secluded area. She said she was raped by seven men, three of whom also attacked her friend.
Reports of the story triggered debate about Saudi Arabia's legal system, in which judges have wide discretion in punishing a criminal, rules of evidence are shaky and sometimes no defence lawyers are present. The result, critics say, are sentences left to the whim of judges.
The woman was identified in the media only as the Girl from Qatif. The case was referred back to the General Court by an appeals court last summer, after the woman's lawyer argued the verdict was too lenient for the rapists and unjust for the victim.
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Dust Devil
- Rank 11
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Security could have called the number at least, saying they need help translating. Possibly repeating some of his words. You're right, it would be difficult to try to get him to take a phone call when he was that agitated. Still, it was an option not used that may have helped. I guess it's always easier to make opinions with hindsight..Dust Devil wrote:How do you get a guy who is throwing shit around to understand he has to come with you and pick up a special phone?
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." -Nietzsche
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North Shore
- Rank Moderator
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- Location: Straight outta Dundarave...
And how are you Al-Qaida operatives going to get your Glock into the secure area of an airport so that you can pull it on the Police when you turn your back on them?
Somewhere in all of that tape, there is a request from one of the coppers: "Can ai use the taser?" Seems to me that the decision to tase had already been made prior to contacting the dead guy...
Somewhere in all of that tape, there is a request from one of the coppers: "Can ai use the taser?" Seems to me that the decision to tase had already been made prior to contacting the dead guy...
Say, what's that mountain goat doing up here in the mist?
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Happiness is V1 at Thompson!
Ass, Licence, Job. In that order.
Ahh, now the RCMP has claimed "Excited Delirium" to be the cause of death. For those unaware, there is no disease recognized by that name. It is only a term used to deflect blame when persons die in police custody.
The guy would have died anyways, so the use of TASER's is irrelevant.
The guy would have died anyways, so the use of TASER's is irrelevant.
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mellow_pilot
- Rank 10
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As I understand it they use the term as a blanket when there is no specific clinical term attached. (ie no doctor has found cause) From what I gather the term was used internally among police and was latched onto by the media. The public tends to see such terms as callous and cold. Sort of like 'collateral damage', a term used by the military to describe any effects that were unplanned. (you could cause damage to a nearby chemical weapons plant when destroying a tank, it would still carry the same moniker, positive or not)
Ah well, time to get wrapped up in terminology again.
Ah well, time to get wrapped up in terminology again.
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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mello_pilot:
The problem the Vancouver Airport Authority, The customs and Immigration Authorities and the RCMP have in this issue is in the court of public opinion they are a disgrace to Canada after the film has been shown world wide on TV.
You can defend the process all you want but the public caught the RCMP lying about what happened...
The problem the Vancouver Airport Authority, The customs and Immigration Authorities and the RCMP have in this issue is in the court of public opinion they are a disgrace to Canada after the film has been shown world wide on TV.
You can defend the process all you want but the public caught the RCMP lying about what happened...
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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mellow_pilot
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You're right Cat, the RCMP fucked up. The inspector that went on TV and goofed the time line, events and details should have kept his bloody mouth shut until the facts were confirmed so he didn't look like an idiot.Cat Driver wrote:mello_pilot:
The problem the Vancouver Airport Authority, The customs and Immigration Authorities and the RCMP have in this issue is in the court of public opinion they are a disgrace to Canada after the film has been shown world wide on TV.
You can defend the process all you want but the public caught the RCMP lying about what happened...
Friend of mine is a former police officer, we were talking about today. He says that the video does not jive with the interview of the inspector, and for that, heads should roll. (i didn't see the interview myself, so the previous comments are a paraphrase of my friend)
He also said that he would have tased the guy too, given the circumstances. (He did say that he would liked to have seen them talk with the suspect longer, but that he also couldn't see everything the officers did due to the camera angle, so there w.)
The way I look at these things is that whenever I'm approached by police, I'm very careful to limit my movements, keep my hands visible and to ensure eye-contact to avoid mis-communication. It's for my safety and theirs. I don't personally know anyone who has run from/been non-compliant with the cops when they were innocent.
Either way, the cops do suffer from a public mistrust, and that must be addressed, warranted or not.
Dyslexics of the world... UNTIE!
More people to blame than just the Mounties
This confused, agitated man, wandered the terminal for 10 hours, yet not one official helped
Joey Thompson, The Province
Published: Friday, November 16, 2007
Trigger-ready Mounties who Tasered, then pounced on their frightened, stricken victim as he squirmed and lay dying at airport arrivals in Richmond must not shoulder all the blame.
YVR officials and security personnel had the confused, agitated non-English-speaking man in their sights for almost 10 hours before the cops barged in -- but not one of them extended a hand to the obviously troubled immigrant.
Vancouver International Airport has 700 candid cameras posted throughout -- at least 14 in the area where 40-year-old Robert Dziekanski was ultimately brought down. Why didn't an employee question the prolonged hanging about of a distressed, solitary arrivee?
And YVR, like sister airports from sea to sea, is crawling with security officers: Canadian Air Transport Security Authority has a pack on patrol, as does the airport authority, Transport Canada, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and Canada Border Services Agency. At least that's what they tell us.
Yet the home video shot by a B.C. man arriving from China shows guards standing by, twiddling their thumbs.
Couldn't one have handed the guy a cup of coffee, or water or made some other pacifying gesture of conciliation?
What's the point of having all those costly surveillance eyes and skilled watchdogs if they're only going to strut tough and wait while someone else figures out what to do?
What are they doing there if not poised to identify and diffuse a potentially explosive or tragic situation such as the one that led to Dziekanski's death?
And what is YVR doing with the air travellers' security fees that top $170 million a year if not to hire personnel ready and equipped to handle security risks such as the one they suspected Dziekanski posed?
To add insult to injury, the airport supposedly has a 1-800 language-services line that puts passengers in touch with an interpreter. Why didn't a guard or airport employee take the time to link Dziekanski up with a translator? A paramedic? A mediator?
Why didn't airport information employees go to the trouble of assisting Mrs. Dziekanski when she asked them to look around the baggage claim area for him?
It's not good enough for YVR president Larry Berg to claim "not my department."
The airport authority CEO told a radio station that the baggage/customs area and exits are CBSA's domain.
"We deliberately stay out of that area," Berg was quoted as saying.
Hey, it's your airport, pal.
As appears to be the case with our fragmented police forces, the numerous government bodies/security forces deployed to keep a tab on all things YVR are better at pointing fingers at one another than working together and keeping each other in the know.
The irony is there are more Canadian officials and government bodies scrambling to get to the bottom of this tragedy than there were rushing to lend a hand to a fresh arrival from Poland. But, as is so typically Canadian, police, security agencies and YVR authorities are conducting their own investigations -- into themselves. That's not good enough.
Nor is a coroner's inquest likely to satisfy an outraged public's appetite for truth and justice -- B.C.'s chief coroner is a retired RCMP superintendent.
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
In my youth, I was wrongly accused of a felony. I, along with others, were investigated by the RCMP, interviewed at length complete with the heavy handed "come on just admit it" "we'll go much easier on you" tactics. I was polygraphed twice, once voluntarily and once under duress.
The polygraph showed a mistruth on one question which was "do you know who committed the crime?" I had to answer no because I had no solid proof but in my heart knew very well who did it. With one questionable answer, the RCMP provided information to my employer. This caused substantial damage to me professionally and personally.
This sort of thing can happen to anyone. The RCMP will contort any statement, and extort anything they can to prove an individual, innocent or otherwise to wrap things up.
I personally despise the RCMP and every one of their members. How can I hate all of them? Because they rally around and cover each other with poor behaviour and lies like no other group. If one is bad, they are all bad. Their tactics are disgusting and disgraceful. I truely hope these four are charged and found guilty of manslaughter. At least others may think before acting so hastily in the future.
Defend them all you like Mellow but I have been on the receiving end and know the truths about them.
The polygraph showed a mistruth on one question which was "do you know who committed the crime?" I had to answer no because I had no solid proof but in my heart knew very well who did it. With one questionable answer, the RCMP provided information to my employer. This caused substantial damage to me professionally and personally.
This sort of thing can happen to anyone. The RCMP will contort any statement, and extort anything they can to prove an individual, innocent or otherwise to wrap things up.
I personally despise the RCMP and every one of their members. How can I hate all of them? Because they rally around and cover each other with poor behaviour and lies like no other group. If one is bad, they are all bad. Their tactics are disgusting and disgraceful. I truely hope these four are charged and found guilty of manslaughter. At least others may think before acting so hastily in the future.
Defend them all you like Mellow but I have been on the receiving end and know the truths about them.
I will agree with some of your points, not that I hate every rcmp however. Needless to say, the rcmp are a closed shop, they will defend one another no matter what, and they stick together like shit to a blanket.
You will never live long enough to know it all, so quit being anal about it..
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Cat Driver
- Top Poster
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Mello.....the man could well have been emotionally stressed and therefore not rational....I don't personally know anyone who has run from/been non-compliant with the cops when they were innocent.
...are you saying that in Canada to be mentally impaired is a criminal offense therefore you are guilty of a crime?
The deeper we look into the top levels of Canadian governance the more cronyism one finds...
Nor is a coroner's inquest likely to satisfy an outraged public's appetite for truth and justice -- B.C.'s chief coroner is a retired RCMP superintendent.
Having visited Poland personally I can understand a Polish immigrant being fearful of the police.....
...Canada it would seem is going in the exact opposite direction of Poland, Canada is becoming a police state by the looks of things.
Maybe it's time we started to fear the system?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
I dunno. This seems like pretty questionable procedure. First, he's being electrocuted and I'm guessing his heart/adrenalin were pumping pretty good before the tazing. You could see how sweaty he was (he even wiped his brow) so he had a nice, conductive electrical layer on his skin and wet clothes. His physiology had to be getting stressed ridiculously at that point and perhaps he had a salt imbalance to exacerbate the effects. You know he was scared, getting that epinephrine load just that much higher. Maybe his health was below average due to diet or maybe he didn't have enough food/water due to his 10+ hour incarceration. So, after getting what seemed like an extended jolt (maybe it was typical), they give him orders in English? Naturally he is slow to respond. The police response to perceived delay? Let's put our weight on his chest and throat, juice him again, all the while restricting his arms during cuffing thereby reducing his capacity to breath. Jeez, the guy probably couldn't follow any order just prior cuffing because his muscles were probably still in knots. As he's having a panic attack as he gasps for air prior to suffocation, the cops not only kneel on him but also apply extra hops thereby making lung compression worse.
No, I don't want to remove the instrument from the police armory, but this particular incident looks like a major screw-up. If that is standard practice, and remember there was a language barrier here, then officers tasked with employing it need to get much better trained on the whole process. I'm thinking if I'm on a jury, I'm leaning towards a criminal prosecution... gross negligence or manslaughter of some sort. And I'm a harda**.
But, let me see if I understand the media's rule of thumb on showing "disturbing content" here:
If it is the mean, uncaring, out-of-control police or military of a western nation accidentally killing someone...then it is in the "public interest" to broadcast it again and again and again.
If it is Islamofascist Terrorists arbitrarily SAWING OFF SOMEONE'S FECKING HEAD simply because they are a symbol of non-islamic western civilization... well, then it's not so important to broadcast that.
After all, we wouldn't want people to have their priorities, now would we?
No, I don't want to remove the instrument from the police armory, but this particular incident looks like a major screw-up. If that is standard practice, and remember there was a language barrier here, then officers tasked with employing it need to get much better trained on the whole process. I'm thinking if I'm on a jury, I'm leaning towards a criminal prosecution... gross negligence or manslaughter of some sort. And I'm a harda**.
But, let me see if I understand the media's rule of thumb on showing "disturbing content" here:
If it is the mean, uncaring, out-of-control police or military of a western nation accidentally killing someone...then it is in the "public interest" to broadcast it again and again and again.
If it is Islamofascist Terrorists arbitrarily SAWING OFF SOMEONE'S FECKING HEAD simply because they are a symbol of non-islamic western civilization... well, then it's not so important to broadcast that.
After all, we wouldn't want people to have their priorities, now would we?
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Mile High Guy
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- Location: CYVR
Ok, I’ve had some time to cool off. What a mess! (edited for web) All the press and public at large seem to be focusing on if the last 30 seconds of a supposed 10 hour episode.
So what do I think? Well, the night I saw the video I was fit to be tied. I saw three levels of Gov’t/Authorities fail.
1) I like most of you have traveled through the “guards” at the Customs booths, and I have been stopped many times simply walking to the turnstile to get my bags. So how can someone, who is obviously lost, go unnoticed for hours? Where is Big Brother with his all seeing surveillance cameras looking for something that’s not right? Where are all the “trained” eyes that work in the hall? If anyone should stick out, it’s someone who is not leaving a place that no one but an employee has any need in staying at. If any one person, be it a Canada Customs agent or YVR employee, or airline employee had noticed this man, he would be alive today!
2) Where was the YVR Airport authority? YVR has employees working on both sides of the immigration line. Where were they? Why, when the two YVR Guards knew that this obviously frustrated man spoke only a foreign language, not get on their YVR supplied radios and ask for either a YVR Translator or a page to be put on the PA system to find someone who spoke Russian? (I know that he spoke Polish). But my point here was NO EFFORT was put into trying to help. NONE! As is almost always over looked in the press, his mother was at the airport looking for him as well. In the course of 8 hours, (time I’ve heard reported) how come not one YVR employee or green coat helped her? I know my way around that airport very well, and I’ve been stopped to find out if I need help. How come an older, distraught woman was not noticed? If any one person in the employ of the airport authority had helped this mother or son at the airport, he would be alive today.
3) RCMP. They are taking the entire wrath for this, yet if any one of (my guess) over 100 employees that would have seen either Mother or Son had done ANYTHING to help, the RCMP would NOT have even been called. I have personally been involved in chasing a thief through the streets of Richmond, and I was the one that had a clerk call the Police. When the Police started showing up in force, and they did. This is the situation the found. A guy telling them that he (that’s me) was chasing another guy who stole some stuff from a bank. They had no idea, other than my word, who the good guy was and who the bad guy was. It was after this incident that I understood why the Police will handcuff everyone until they sort out what’s actually happening. (No I wasn’t cuffed) As has been mentioned several times in other posts, the Police are never called until the situation has gone beyond the skills of those monitoring the situation. Having said that, should four trained RCMP Officers use that much force after just 30 or so seconds? No. Did they follow Tasering protocol? No. Should they be help responsible for that? Yes.
4) Our Victim, What I see, when I watch this video is a man who has been up for 24+ hours, wanting information. I see a man who has become so frustrated with being ignored that he did something to get someone’s attention. Why do I feel this way. Well as I have mentioned many times already, if anyone had paid him any attention, HE WOULD NOT BE DEAD. Should he have thrown things? No. But how many times did he go and ask for help for that person just to say, I don’t understand you? I don’t know, but this man did negotiate a European Airport outside of Poland to get here. So he did have the ability to find his way around. So my guess is that he was of sound mind and body.
But before anyone in the press or public at large holds the RCMP 100% responsible, find out how and more importantly WHY it got to this point? Although I haven’t heard it yet, my guess is that when YVR gives its official response they’ll say that although they sympathize with this woman’s positions they are not responsible for anything that goes on in the customs hall.
Mr. Berg, I hope you can’t sleep well at night because doing NOTHING is not a good enough excuse when a man DIES on your watch.
So what do I think? Well, the night I saw the video I was fit to be tied. I saw three levels of Gov’t/Authorities fail.
1) I like most of you have traveled through the “guards” at the Customs booths, and I have been stopped many times simply walking to the turnstile to get my bags. So how can someone, who is obviously lost, go unnoticed for hours? Where is Big Brother with his all seeing surveillance cameras looking for something that’s not right? Where are all the “trained” eyes that work in the hall? If anyone should stick out, it’s someone who is not leaving a place that no one but an employee has any need in staying at. If any one person, be it a Canada Customs agent or YVR employee, or airline employee had noticed this man, he would be alive today!
2) Where was the YVR Airport authority? YVR has employees working on both sides of the immigration line. Where were they? Why, when the two YVR Guards knew that this obviously frustrated man spoke only a foreign language, not get on their YVR supplied radios and ask for either a YVR Translator or a page to be put on the PA system to find someone who spoke Russian? (I know that he spoke Polish). But my point here was NO EFFORT was put into trying to help. NONE! As is almost always over looked in the press, his mother was at the airport looking for him as well. In the course of 8 hours, (time I’ve heard reported) how come not one YVR employee or green coat helped her? I know my way around that airport very well, and I’ve been stopped to find out if I need help. How come an older, distraught woman was not noticed? If any one person in the employ of the airport authority had helped this mother or son at the airport, he would be alive today.
3) RCMP. They are taking the entire wrath for this, yet if any one of (my guess) over 100 employees that would have seen either Mother or Son had done ANYTHING to help, the RCMP would NOT have even been called. I have personally been involved in chasing a thief through the streets of Richmond, and I was the one that had a clerk call the Police. When the Police started showing up in force, and they did. This is the situation the found. A guy telling them that he (that’s me) was chasing another guy who stole some stuff from a bank. They had no idea, other than my word, who the good guy was and who the bad guy was. It was after this incident that I understood why the Police will handcuff everyone until they sort out what’s actually happening. (No I wasn’t cuffed) As has been mentioned several times in other posts, the Police are never called until the situation has gone beyond the skills of those monitoring the situation. Having said that, should four trained RCMP Officers use that much force after just 30 or so seconds? No. Did they follow Tasering protocol? No. Should they be help responsible for that? Yes.
4) Our Victim, What I see, when I watch this video is a man who has been up for 24+ hours, wanting information. I see a man who has become so frustrated with being ignored that he did something to get someone’s attention. Why do I feel this way. Well as I have mentioned many times already, if anyone had paid him any attention, HE WOULD NOT BE DEAD. Should he have thrown things? No. But how many times did he go and ask for help for that person just to say, I don’t understand you? I don’t know, but this man did negotiate a European Airport outside of Poland to get here. So he did have the ability to find his way around. So my guess is that he was of sound mind and body.
But before anyone in the press or public at large holds the RCMP 100% responsible, find out how and more importantly WHY it got to this point? Although I haven’t heard it yet, my guess is that when YVR gives its official response they’ll say that although they sympathize with this woman’s positions they are not responsible for anything that goes on in the customs hall.
Mr. Berg, I hope you can’t sleep well at night because doing NOTHING is not a good enough excuse when a man DIES on your watch.
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