West Wind Pilots Reinstated

[ifr]

Well, IFR...once again your ignorance becomes your undoing. I am working within WWA, and I can explain to you FIRST HAND that it was not a two year process. It was several months, to be sure. A great many of the pilots went to meeting after meeting with management to express our concerns and come up with a group solution to the problems that were brought forward. If you would like to speak intelligently on the subject, then you would have to actually have been party to the activities and discussions which precipitated this whole situation. Dropping your two cents worth when you are not even involved just shows how you are letting your mouth precede your intellect.

Wow. You are sensitive. Anyway, maybe my mouth precedes my knowledge but not necessarily my intellect! However, I still believe that there is a much longer history than what you state.

So, I gather from your postings that you were not part of the 'involved' majority that signed one of those cards?

[SaskStyle]

Westwind pilots hurry up and get that union in place.

You need it not only to hold your management accountable, but after reading Crazyflights posts...he/she has their head so far up the proverbial management ass...you need real protection from each other!!!!!

Crazyflight....it's good that you're voicing your opinion...together with your view of the facts (which, by the way...are influenced by your opinion...read a globe and then pick up the post and you'll get my drift with how "facts" can be interpreted)....it was a real eye opener to read your views....and I appreciate you taking the time to write them...

IFR said it all better than I could with regards to your statement of the fact that they were fired. I just want to ask you when the last time you heard of a PPC ride being the sole determinator in the fate of a long term employed pilot's job. There's a lot in that sentence, but there's a lot going on here...and just to say that they

...failed to meet the recertification requirements and were subsequently released from WWA.

and accept that as "fact" is mindboggling. On top of that...to accept and agree with management's decision by standing by silently is reprehensible.

Hence my statement that your head is stuck somewhere it shouldn't be and the WW pilot group needs just as much protection from fellow pilots then from out of control management.


I was trying to follow the timeline of events according to your statements of "fact..."

I was not even stating an opinion...merely stating fact in that two of the pilots have been removed from service. As for thanking them for 'going to the wall' for the West Wind pilots, I do have an opinion on that subject. Those pilots were quite ungrateful to an organisation that was trying their best to make changes and improve the situation with which pilots had expressed concern.

I am working within WWA, and I can explain to you FIRST HAND that it was not a two year process. It was several months, to be sure. A great many of the pilots went to meeting after meeting with management to express our concerns and come up with a group solution to the problems that were brought forward.

So let me get this straight...because I'm not following....you're saying that:

1) The pilots that were fired were ungrateful to an organisation that was trying their best to make changes and improve the situation with which pilots had expressed concern.

2) Discussions were not a two year process. It was several months to be sure.

WTF?

You say first that they were ungrateful to an organization that was "trying their best to make changes", then in the next quote completely contradict that statement by saying that discussions were not going on prior to several months ago (coinciding with the initial termination of the pilots) with the start of the union talk.

Management then takes interest in improving working conditions based on problems brought forward, and you call the pilot's that went to the wall and were fired ungrateful???

To finish off my rant...since when did I as a wage earning line employee, need to be "grateful" to the organization that pays me for my expertise to make them (the owners/shareholders) money? Have some pride!! Realise there is a huge difference between being an excellent employee and being "grateful" to an organization for trying to improve working conditions.

[aviator2010]

what happened to the ATR captians that "failed" their rides after the labour board found in their favor?

[Doc]

If these were recurrent check rides with a "company" DFTE, these pilots should go straight to TC and have the DFTE's privileges pulled. Then do rides with a TC inspector on board, or with a TC person. Sounds like a case of "selective" screwing to me. These are professionally SIM etc. trained, experienced pilots who suddenly can't fly? Take it to a lawyer, as a group.

[rigpiggy]

I used to work with an ACP that did every ride exactly the same as a CYA exercise. He kept all the paperwork from previous rides. This was due to somebody going to TC about an "unfair ride" his response was that every ride was the same.

[turbo-prop]

The rides were done by TC.

[Carrier]

Were they given the proper recurrent training/practice before the rides or were they set up to fail? Were they given on-going training and practice from their last ride to maintain them at a level of competence or were their skills allowed to degrade and they were then thrown into a ride with not much hope of passing?

[Donald]

I used to work with an ACP that did every ride exactly the same as a CYA exercise. He kept all the paperwork from previous rides. This was due to somebody going to TC about an "unfair ride" his response was that every ride was the same.

An ACP does have to actively "C-their-own-A". If anyone goes to tribunal, as is their right after a failed ride, you better be able to explain your actions.

[Widow]

Threads merged, for those who don't remember what was said to have happened ...