taking off 26, if not airborne by this point, abort, below 700 (asl) land gear up into the water,

Unless you have a life preserver, you'll drown in 2 minutes. Good job.

photofly wrote:

taking off 26, if not airborne by this point, abort, below 700 (asl) land gear up into the water,

Unless you have a life preserver, you'll drown in 2 minutes. Good job.

AOPA accident stats say that over a 30 year period there were no fatalities in 93 % of all aircraft that ditched under all circumstances. The low altitude turn back stats are much much worse. So from an evidence based view point Rookie's plan seems pretty reasonable.

As for your statement "you'll drown in 2 minutes. Good job" ...well I have yet to see any facts to back up your assertion, but hey don't let facts get in the way of a chance to insult and demean a newbie looking for advice. Good job

- The magnetic North Poll is not in the same geographic spot as the actual North Poll -

photofly wrote:

taking off 26, if not airborne by this point, abort, below 700 (asl) land gear up into the water,

Unless you have a life preserver, you'll drown in 2 minutes. Good job.

Perhaps if you cant swim.

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
- The magnetic North Pole is not in the same geographic spot as the actual North Pole -

Fixed it for you.

CpnCrunch wrote:

photofly wrote:

taking off 26, if not airborne by this point, abort, below 700 (asl) land gear up into the water,

Unless you have a life preserver, you'll drown in 2 minutes. Good job.

Perhaps if you cant swim.

Even if you can't swim, which I think is now pretty uncommon, the airplane is likely to float for at least several minutes before sinking.

Shiny Side Up wrote:

Big Pistons Forever wrote:
- The magnetic North Pole is not in the same geographic spot as the actual North Pole -

Fixed it for you.

Us instructors just can't help ourselves when it comes to fixing mistakes, eh

Big Pistons Forever wrote: a chance to insult and demean a newbie looking for advice. Good job

I don't see any insults or demeaning comments (*), nor do I see a newbie looking for advice. Which thread are you reading?

(*)Oh wait! Yes I do see insults and demeaning comments! They're all coming from you, directed at me!

Big Pistons Forever wrote:AOPA accident stats say that over a 30 year period there were no fatalities in 93 % of all aircraft that ditched under all circumstances. The low altitude turn back stats are much much worse. So from an evidence based view point Rookie's plan seems pretty reasonable.

Might be worth another thread.

I wonder what the stats look like when you remove all the ditchings where life rafts could be deployed, all the ones involving life preservers, all the ones into water fewer than 5 feet deep, and all the ones into water warm enough not to give you hypothermia within 4-5 minutes.

Photo

- During flight a wing produces downwash -

Perhaps we could wonder why boaters are required by law to carry life preservers or face a fine. And why money is spent on public safety campaigns and websites like this one:
http://safequiet.ca/category/life-jackets/

I think it's because people who go into the water without a life preserver have very poor chances of survival. According to you however, that's unless they happen to be pilots - because AOPA tells us that 93% of ditchings involve no fatalities. Perhaps there's something about surviving a traumatic and possibly injurious ditching of an aircraft that actually improves your chances of being able to swim in cold water for 10 or 15 minutes, compared with just falling off the side of a boat.

What do you think?

photofly wrote:
What do you think?

I think if the choice is a straight ahead glide to an in control ditching vs a low altitude turn back, the accident statistics, which represent how pilots actually performed, instead of how we wished they performed, clearly indicate that the average pilot on the average day; is better off ditching under control.

Accident statistics suggest that a turnback is 8 times more likely to result in a fatal accident than simply landing straight ahead under control.

The greatest factor affecting crash survivability, is the attitude of the aircraft when it hits the earths surface. The closer it is to wings level and a slight nose up attitude with a moderate descent rate (less than 700 feet/min) the greater the probability that there will be no fatalities.

- A "climb" prop will have a lower blade angle than a "cruise" prop -

clearly indicate that the average pilot

Strive hard to be better than average. That should be uncontroversial, around here.

Right now Lake Ontario is 20C, which is pretty warm compared to other places I've swum without any problems (other than shrinkage). As long as you keep moving, you'll be fine. I don't see any risk of drowning from half a mile away from shore unless you are frail or can't swim, and providing you can get out of the aircraft. As far as I know there are no dangerous currents, sharks or other dangers in the lake.

We've got some pretty impressive thread drift here.

So low level manoeuvring without power is only a beneficial skill if you want to fly in winter?

CpnCrunch wrote:
We've got some pretty impressive thread drift here.

You are right Back to the topic.

Photo

- Flying instructors should remain awake when the aircraft is in the air -

I would love to have an instructor fall asleep. I would slowly ease into an unreasonably steep bank, let the nose drop, then nudge him awake and fake unresponsivness myself.

Mb not a good idea at 6 hrs tt tho.

Dearest Photofly & CptCrunch

Have either of you actually had to egress from a submerged aircraft?

I have and that was at the tender age of 7 years of age...

With all due respect, you guys need to stop preaching from your respective couches while pontificating your view points without a shred of experience...

It kinda grows old to read ya know?

All the best,
TPC

So sorry to bore you. Why don't you share your wisdom?

stop preaching from your couch ... without a shred of experience

TPC: I can't let this slide by. PF is in the process
of flying the North Atlantic, via Greenland and
Iceland, in a small piston single with stock fuel
tanks - and an engine past TBO!!

That takes balls, TPC. Great big ones. And he's
even a flight instructor, so he's probably not much
of a pilot in your opinion.

Maybe you've done 3 moon landings in the last
week, so you can laugh at PF's journey, which
is "preaching from the couch" compared to your
vast experience. But I highly doubt it.

Sorry to spill the beans, PF, but this thread turned
ludicrous.

TeePeeCreeper wrote:Dearest Photofly & CptCrunch

Have either of you actually had to egress from a submerged aircraft?

My comment related to swimming to shore after getting out of the plane. Start a new thread to discuss further.

Colonel Sanders wrote: but this thread turned
ludicrous.

What's the matter Colonel Sanders, you chicken?

That takes balls, TPC. Great big ones.

I am not sure that I would characterize it quite the same way.

Not particularly long legs, but at low level that water below is dark and ugly, and many hours on auto rough is stressful.

I just wanted to rescue this from the disaster that was page 4.

30 degree coordinated turns...
If you need to do a tighter turn in the cct you've probably screwed up somewhere.

I want to add, typically there are 4 or less turns needed to complete a circuit. I'M thinking the worst mistake is likely to be if I go too far cross wind before turning final. Still don't need to turn sharper. Just turn more until the runway is in front of the plane. Unless too far is a mile or something. Maybe you need a more complex solution then.

I don't really fly much anymore though so maybe I remember it wrong.

Pop n Fresh wrote:
I want to add, typically there are 4 or less turns needed to complete a circuit. I'M thinking the worst mistake is likely to be if I go too far cross wind before turning final. Still don't need to turn sharper. Just turn more until the runway is in front of the plane. Unless too far is a mile or something. Maybe you need a more complex solution then.

I don't really fly much anymore though so maybe I remember it wrong.

Yep, just keep turning through the runway heading, then turn the other way. No drama or heroics required. I think the flight instructors even teach you that, when they're awake.