lazyeight wrote:Because a degree really tells HR how great of a pilot you are...
@#$!, if you haven't figured out yet that getting hired at an airline has very little to do with "how great of a pilot you are" - then wtf no wonder you don't have a job yet...
A degree weeds out a few of the idiots... A FEW... they sort it out from there... and pick the outstanding and smart ones without a degree as they go...
My buddy interviewed at AC then got this email (paraphrased),
"Thanks for the interview. At this time, all pilot vacancies are full. We plan on continuing hiring this fall and next year and hope to be able to proceed with your file in the future. Until that time, your application is on hold and will stay active for 12 months. If you hear nothing after 12 months, then re-apply on our website"
It means your buddy is not out of the running, they just have better qualified candidates, or more pilots to be processed through the PMA. AC is heading into a period of growth, combined with retirements. I can almost assure you, any academic requirements are going to be waved. I think the most junior EMB captain is four years with the company. With the 737 coming in 2017, the training issues are already starting to manifest themselves for the coming year. The last two years we have given them LETS to get them through the busy summer, with the release of bid 16-03, it's apparent they are royally screwed for summer 17.
Great to see the positive news for the lads/lassies who want to move to the big red, hope it all happens. To bad this kinda growth didn't happen for me in the very early 80's when I had a younger man's clothes, got my ATPL in 1980 and yes am university educated. But whatever..............
That's good to hear. Heard a lot of guys were getting turned down or skipped in random orders with the PMLs. Some would get interviews months later and get course dates before others that interviewed long before. Now if only AC could call me so I can join the fun
infiniteregulus wrote:My buddy interviewed at AC then got this email (paraphrased),
"Thanks for the interview. At this time, all pilot vacancies are full. We plan on continuing hiring this fall and next year and hope to be able to proceed with your file in the future. Until that time, your application is on hold and will stay active for 12 months. If you hear nothing after 12 months, then re-apply on our website"
Is this good or bad??
This is good news, it means your buddy hasn't been rejected. The 'pool' phraseology is no longer being used as it led candidates to (understandably) believe they'd been hired. With only 3 ground schools for the rest of 2016 planned and 2 positions in each from outside of AC's connectors positions are pretty scarce.
As mentioned the good news is hiring is planned to continue and there are huge numbers of vacancies. Air Canada is honouring the terms of the PML which allow Jazz pilots to defer for 2 years. The interview and offer screening took just over a year and the first (senior) pilots at Jazz who deferred will be reaching the two year mark in early 2017.
The most junior EMJ Capt was actually hired in March 2016. The numbers are slightly skewed do to how they transition over from Jazz with their relative seinority.
The ACPA collective agreement allows any new-hire pilot (PML or OTS) with an employment offer from AC to defer their start date but keep the pilot seniority slot that corresponds to their course offer. Therefore, DOH and pilot seniority date can (and do) differ for many AC seniority list pilots from 2015 onwards.
watermeth wrote:so what's going on here ? nothing at all ?
Pretty much... Still not many retirements showing up on the bids. The few remaining grounds books for the year will still be primarily PML candidates. Next equipment bid is in October.
I've heard a bid range of December 2016 - April 2017. Most likely 17-01.
Retirements for those reaching 65 should start showing up on paper (a year to ten months out) on bid 17-01. I think we will see a gradual uptick in retirements at first. I have a feeling the initial numbers won't meet what people are expecting. Back in 2012 when the law changed initially only about half stayed. Over the course of a year or so after that, the number grew to over 80%. So although attrition rates will start to uptick in the new year, normalized attrition due to retirement is probably still a year away on paper and two years in actuality.
Fanblade wrote:I've heard a bid range of December 2016 - April 2017. Most likely 17-01.
Retirements for those reaching 65 should start showing up on paper (a year to ten months out) on bid 17-01. I think we will see a gradual uptick in retirements at first. I have a feeling the initial numbers won't meet what people are expecting. Back in 2012 when the law changed initially only about half stayed. Over the course of a year or so after that, the number grew to over 80%. So although attrition rates will start to uptick in the new year, normalized attrition due to retirement is probably still a year away on paper and two years in actuality.
What are the hard age 65 numbers for 2017/2018/2019 etc?
I know that there is a seniority calculator for AC pilots but was curious what mandatory (not early) retirement numbers are over next 5-7 years.
Fanblade wrote:I've heard a bid range of December 2016 - April 2017. Most likely 17-01.
Retirements for those reaching 65 should start showing up on paper (a year to ten months out) on bid 17-01. I think we will see a gradual uptick in retirements at first. I have a feeling the initial numbers won't meet what people are expecting. Back in 2012 when the law changed initially only about half stayed. Over the course of a year or so after that, the number grew to over 80%. So although attrition rates will start to uptick in the new year, normalized attrition due to retirement is probably still a year away on paper and two years in actuality.
What are the hard age 65 numbers for 2017/2018/2019 etc?
I know that there is a seniority calculator for AC pilots but was curious what mandatory (not early) retirement numbers are over next 5-7 years.
I don't have the calculator. It wasn't published in house and it's accuracy is suspect anyway. ACPA seems very hesitant to publish anything.
I've been told 1000 retirements over 7 years once they start. It sounds about right. 3500 pilots. Average 30 year career? Attrition rate should be a little over 100/year.
rudder wrote:
I know that there is a seniority calculator for AC pilots but was curious what mandatory (not early) retirement numbers are over next 5-7 years.
I don't have the calculator. It wasn't published in house and it's accuracy is suspect anyway. ACPA seems very hesitant to publish anything.
I've been told 1000 retirements over 7 years once they start. It sounds about right. 3500 pilots. Average 30 year career? Attrition rate should be a little over 100/year.
The first group retiring later this decade are the rest baby boomers, the second wave of retirements is from the hiring wave between 1995-1999 (about 600 hired) where the bulk of the pilots were hired between 35-40 years old and will be in their early 60's between 2025-2030.
The 2017 number looks odd to me. 60 retirements looks very high considering the attrition rate we have seen and the law changing Dec 2012. Any explanation you can you think of?
