TA…HERE IT IS AND IT SUCKS

[rudder]

...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

That mentality is why Pilot compensation in Canada languishes behind the rest of the world.

It sounds like a line from management.

[Montroyal]

Has a pilot EVER regretted voting No?

How many have regretted voting Yes?

[co-joe]

Just saw Encore also increased their payscales.

Encore gluck gluck 5000

Highlights of the Deal are as followed:

Captains and First Officers will receive lump sum payments of $850 a month if they are Active for one day in the pay period.
Captains and First Officers both move up 2 Pay Steps on January 1, 2023 (i.e., if you are a Captain on a year 3 pay step, you will now be on a year 5 Captain pay step).
New Captains and First Officers will start at year 3 of their respective pay steps.
New Captain Pay Steps added for year 7 and 8 at $106.56 and $109.49 respectively.
Training Pilots will receive a lump sum payment of $500 a month.
Line Indoctrination instructors will receive $120 per training day, previously was $90.
ACP will receive $200 per training day, previously was $155.
Training Pilot expenses account, amount available is $600 per month (this does not roll over), claims must comply with the corporate expense policy.
ATPL course (i.e., Aerocourse) reimbursed for First Officers with receipts, they will also receive a $500 one-time payment when completed.

This MOA would be effective from January 1,2023 until December 31, 2023, or until the date the next Collective Agreement takes effect, whichever is later.

Is this real? Who would have thought a little airline disrupting the industry with 20 737's could be the catalyst that effects so many people? Sunwing pay raises, Encore too? Can't wait to see what's next.

[Apestogetherstrong]

I just can't back a contract that says captains are worth more than twice what first officers are worth. Why were FOs ignored this negotiation? A short contact and fast upgrades aren't an excuse.

I agree. FO’s were definitely overlooked. Whats another $16k worth for Flair to add on to year one salary? If you can afford to increase Cap salary from $114k to $150k, you can easily fix the contract by raising FO salary to $89k. This will prevent a lot of FO’s from leaving. Think about what WJ and AC are going to do. If they improve their FO and Cap salary, w ill you then try to fix the contract in between the 3 year term?

VOTE NO EVERYONE!

What's with the push to 89K. Before this came out you said it was 89K. Throughout this post, you've preached 89K. Have huge debts or what.

This contract, from what I've saw is a hard NO for various reasons...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

$89K is the benchmark for year 1 FO that I want all pilots to fight for. Its a number that we deserve. “FO payscale is comparable within Canada” -Please stop with this BS. Canadian payscales suck and this is the bare minimum. VOTE NO!

[Tdicommuter]

Just saw Encore also increased their payscales.

Encore gluck gluck 5000

Highlights of the Deal are as followed:

Captains and First Officers will receive lump sum payments of $850 a month if they are Active for one day in the pay period.
Captains and First Officers both move up 2 Pay Steps on January 1, 2023 (i.e., if you are a Captain on a year 3 pay step, you will now be on a year 5 Captain pay step).
New Captains and First Officers will start at year 3 of their respective pay steps.
New Captain Pay Steps added for year 7 and 8 at $106.56 and $109.49 respectively.
Training Pilots will receive a lump sum payment of $500 a month.
Line Indoctrination instructors will receive $120 per training day, previously was $90.
ACP will receive $200 per training day, previously was $155.
Training Pilot expenses account, amount available is $600 per month (this does not roll over), claims must comply with the corporate expense policy.
ATPL course (i.e., Aerocourse) reimbursed for First Officers with receipts, they will also receive a $500 one-time payment when completed.

This MOA would be effective from January 1,2023 until December 31, 2023, or until the date the next Collective Agreement takes effect, whichever is later.

Is this real? Who would have thought a little airline disrupting the industry with 20 737's could be the catalyst that effects so many people? Sunwing pay raises, Encore too? Can't wait to see what's next.

Please explain how operating the same airplane as everyone else is disrupting the industry? Be very specific about exactly how and what Flair has done to disrupt the entire Canadian aviation industry.

Sunwing planned on using foreign captains and lost that battle, guys booked off and they can't afford to mess up this winter... Pay raise. Nothing to do with flair.

Why do you think a new agreement was offered to you at Flair? Because the company is so happy with your work? Because it's a Christmas miracle? Or is it possible that the amount of people needed to grow the airline cannot be reached without paying more money. This doesn't seem like rocket science, and i certainly wouldn't credit flair as the saviour of the industry. But while we are on the topic of saving people's lives... How well do your flight attendants get paid? What about gate agents, or ground staff. Those used to be career jobs one could support their family with... I actually don't know what flair is doing but if a ticket is sold to a passenger at 49 dollars because the staffs wages are garbage I don't celebrate that feat. That's like bragging about all the extra consumerism Wal-Mart has unlocked across the world. Regardless of what I think about Flair... I want the airline to succeed and everyone involved to become rich doing it. What I'm calling you out on is your naivety about what your worth is.

[ant_321]

I agree. FO’s were definitely overlooked. Whats another $16k worth for Flair to add on to year one salary? If you can afford to increase Cap salary from $114k to $150k, you can easily fix the contract by raising FO salary to $89k. This will prevent a lot of FO’s from leaving. Think about what WJ and AC are going to do. If they improve their FO and Cap salary, w ill you then try to fix the contract in between the 3 year term?

VOTE NO EVERYONE!

What's with the push to 89K. Before this came out you said it was 89K. Throughout this post, you've preached 89K. Have huge debts or what.

This contract, from what I've saw is a hard NO for various reasons...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

$89K is the benchmark for year 1 FO that I want all pilots to fight for. Its a number that we deserve. “FO payscale is comparable within Canada” -Please stop with this BS. Canadian payscales suck and this is the bare minimum. VOTE NO!

I think he’s asking why specifically $89k. I’ve been wondering the same. Seems like a weird number to be set on and you keep bringing it up. Why not 88, 92 or 101?

[kilocharliemike]

I agree. FO’s were definitely overlooked. Whats another $16k worth for Flair to add on to year one salary? If you can afford to increase Cap salary from $114k to $150k, you can easily fix the contract by raising FO salary to $89k. This will prevent a lot of FO’s from leaving. Think about what WJ and AC are going to do. If they improve their FO and Cap salary, w ill you then try to fix the contract in between the 3 year term?

VOTE NO EVERYONE!

What's with the push to 89K. Before this came out you said it was 89K. Throughout this post, you've preached 89K. Have huge debts or what.

This contract, from what I've saw is a hard NO for various reasons...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

$89K is the benchmark for year 1 FO that I want all pilots to fight for. Its a number that we deserve. “FO payscale is comparable within Canada” -Please stop with this BS. Canadian payscales suck and this is the bare minimum. VOTE NO!

this is all madness 100k is the benchmark for 1 yr....does anyone know how much net that is in Quebec... f@#$ery...

[Jumbo744]

I agree. FO’s were definitely overlooked. Whats another $16k worth for Flair to add on to year one salary? If you can afford to increase Cap salary from $114k to $150k, you can easily fix the contract by raising FO salary to $89k. This will prevent a lot of FO’s from leaving. Think about what WJ and AC are going to do. If they improve their FO and Cap salary, w ill you then try to fix the contract in between the 3 year term?

VOTE NO EVERYONE!

What's with the push to 89K. Before this came out you said it was 89K. Throughout this post, you've preached 89K. Have huge debts or what.

This contract, from what I've saw is a hard NO for various reasons...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

$89K is the benchmark for year 1 FO that I want all pilots to fight for. Its a number that we deserve. “FO payscale is comparable within Canada” -Please stop with this BS. Canadian payscales suck and this is the bare minimum. VOTE NO!

Hey weren't you PFO'd from Flair a few days ago ? Nobody really cares about what you think.

[Apestogetherstrong]

What's with the push to 89K. Before this came out you said it was 89K. Throughout this post, you've preached 89K. Have huge debts or what.

This contract, from what I've saw is a hard NO for various reasons...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

$89K is the benchmark for year 1 FO that I want all pilots to fight for. Its a number that we deserve. “FO payscale is comparable within Canada” -Please stop with this BS. Canadian payscales suck and this is the bare minimum. VOTE NO!

Hey weren't you PFO'd from Flair a few days ago ? Nobody really cares about what you think.

[Apestogetherstrong]

What's with the push to 89K. Before this came out you said it was 89K. Throughout this post, you've preached 89K. Have huge debts or what.

This contract, from what I've saw is a hard NO for various reasons...BUT the FO payscale is comparable within Canada (not saying its right or not).

$89K is the benchmark for year 1 FO that I want all pilots to fight for. Its a number that we deserve. “FO payscale is comparable within Canada” -Please stop with this BS. Canadian payscales suck and this is the bare minimum. VOTE NO!

Hey weren't you PFO'd from Flair a few days ago ? Nobody really cares about what you think.

I’m the only one who is advocating for higher 89k. People do care. I was PFO’d but currently at AC. IF Flair increases to 89k, AC will beat that.

[co-joe]

I think he’s asking why specifically $89k. I’ve been wondering the same. Seems like a weird number to be set on and you keep bringing it up. Why not 88, 92 or 101?

He keeps bringing that number up on the Telegram group as well. Not sure why that's the magic number for him, but we've pretty much all started just ignoring him. We don't need career FOs, we need Captains, the ownership thinks we can attract and retain more Captains paying 150 k to start than we have at 114.5k so I'm all for it. If we have trouble attracting FOs at 73.4k/y first year then I'm sure that will get addressed.

Please explain how operating the same airplane as everyone else is disrupting the industry? Be very specific about exactly how and what Flair has done to disrupt the entire Canadian aviation industry.
... What I'm calling you out on is your naivety about what your worth is.

Have you been paying attention at all? Literally in 2 years flat, Flair has gone from the little airline with a few 73 Classics nobody gave a rat's ass about, to the one everybody is talking about. We are literally the only independent ULCC in this country that has a chance at challenging the duopolistic status quo. You think I'm worth more, I'm flattered, but we still have to keep our competitive edge. This tiny company literally just matched WestJet's on paper pay scale and is the only company offering home every night, based wherever you want to live, direct entry Boeing Captain title and wages, and we're doing it despite everyone saying it can't be done.

What part of this industry haven't we disrupted? Sunwing just matched our new wages, Lynx already said they will meet or beat them, Porter will have to join rank or not be able to attract anyone, as will Jetlines... keep watching, thing's are just starting to happen.

[JackLeCoq]

Have you been paying attention at all? Literally in 2 years flat, Flair has gone from the little airline with a few 73 Classics nobody gave a rat's ass about, to the one everybody is talking about. We are literally the only independent ULCC in this country that has a chance at challenging the duopolistic status quo. You think I'm worth more, I'm flattered, but we still have to keep our competitive edge. This tiny company literally just matched WestJet's on paper pay scale and is the only company offering home every night, based wherever you want to live, direct entry Boeing Captain title and wages, and we're doing it despite everyone saying it can't be done.

What part of this industry haven't we disrupted? Sunwing just matched our new wages, Lynx already said they will meet or beat them, Porter will have to join rank or not be able to attract anyone, as will Jetlines... keep watching, thing's are just starting to happen.

A pilot that wants to keep his pay down to help the company

Tabarnac

[rudder]

A pilot that wants to keep his pay down to help the company

Tabarnac

Or one that hopes to join management some day.

[Vanguard]

I think he’s asking why specifically $89k. I’ve been wondering the same. Seems like a weird number to be set on and you keep bringing it up. Why not 88, 92 or 101?

He keeps bringing that number up on the Telegram group as well. Not sure why that's the magic number for him, but we've pretty much all started just ignoring him. We don't need career FOs, we need Captains, the ownership thinks we can attract and retain more Captains paying 150 k to start than we have at 114.5k so I'm all for it. If we have trouble attracting FOs at 73.4k/y first year then I'm sure that will get addressed.

Please explain how operating the same airplane as everyone else is disrupting the industry? Be very specific about exactly how and what Flair has done to disrupt the entire Canadian aviation industry.
... What I'm calling you out on is your naivety about what your worth is.

Have you been paying attention at all? Literally in 2 years flat, Flair has gone from the little airline with a few 73 Classics nobody gave a rat's ass about, to the one everybody is talking about. We are literally the only independent ULCC in this country that has a chance at challenging the duopolistic status quo. You think I'm worth more, I'm flattered, but we still have to keep our competitive edge. This tiny company literally just matched WestJet's on paper pay scale and is the only company offering home every night, based wherever you want to live, direct entry Boeing Captain title and wages, and we're doing it despite everyone saying it can't be done.

What part of this industry haven't we disrupted? Sunwing just matched our new wages, Lynx already said they will meet or beat them, Porter will have to join rank or not be able to attract anyone, as will Jetlines... keep watching, thing's are just starting to happen.

I wish people like this had the courage to say who they actually are so you can be added to the big pile of scab list of Canadian aviation.

Competitive edge? You and many others like you have destroyed our industry and frankly your thinking is responsible for this profession to have gone so downhill. If people like you had the courage to be transparent - you'd actually really understand how the rest of us feel about you.

[GRK2]

Ok tough guy, you go first! (By the way your definition of a scab is wrong.) Almost no one here on this site can get that right, so you're in great company...

[Vanguard]

Ok tough guy, you go first! (By the way your definition of a scab is wrong.) Almost no one here on this site can get that right, so you're in great company...

Scab reference to workmen who wouldn't join a strike, a union, or take part in organized labor standing for proper wages and working conditions.

[Jumbo744]

Ok tough guy, you go first! (By the way your definition of a scab is wrong.) Almost no one here on this site can get that right, so you're in great company...

Scab reference to workmen who wouldn't join a strike, a union, or take part in organized labor standing for proper wages and working conditions.

lol look at you little online bully. Yes we have destroyed this industry, it is our fault that Jazz and Encore pay their FOs 40k a year, and their captains just a bit more than that, it is our fault that our national carrier pays their pilots 55k for 4 years sorry for accepting job offers that pay way better than that we should have asked you first

[Vanguard]

Ok tough guy, you go first! (By the way your definition of a scab is wrong.) Almost no one here on this site can get that right, so you're in great company...

Scab reference to workmen who wouldn't join a strike, a union, or take part in organized labor standing for proper wages and working conditions.

lol look at you little online bully. Yes we have destroyed this industry, it is our fault that Jazz and Encore pay their FOs 40k a year, and their captains just a bit more than that, it is our fault that our national carrier pays their pilots 55k for 4 years sorry for accepting job offers that pay way better than that we should have asked you first

Jazz started paying 40k a year because of Jazz PML 1 and then PML 2. You idiots don't know your own history.

The Canadian aviation eats shit because of Air Canada at the forefront. There is no greater truth. They lead the way to destroy us all but I expect that will change as well once their contract opens.

There has never been a better chance to make a stand and you are the first one to go through a bargaining period. You can go ahead and accept this shitty TA. Most of you will look for other jobs in a few years when other airlines actually take a stand. The only one looking like will take a proper stand are the WestJet Pilots who have seen the shit end of the stick when they went into arbitration last time.

Actually -- please go ahead and accept his TA which is what is likely but then don't you ever complain about being the lowest paid 737 and hardest worked pilots of our industry because that is exactly what you are. You were the bottom then and you will stay the bottom now.

[YC87DRVR]

Scab reference to workmen who wouldn't join a strike, a union, or take part in organized labor standing for proper wages and working conditions.

lol look at you little online bully. Yes we have destroyed this industry, it is our fault that Jazz and Encore pay their FOs 40k a year, and their captains just a bit more than that, it is our fault that our national carrier pays their pilots 55k for 4 years sorry for accepting job offers that pay way better than that we should have asked you first

Jazz started paying 40k a year because of Jazz PML 1 and then PML 2. You idiots don't know your own history.

Well actually Jazz started paying that because of Sky Regional (Q and Emb ops) and Georgian (RJ) bottom feeding and driving the costs down.
The PML’s were just sweeteners (carrots) for accepting lower pay.

Who is the “idiot” now???

[JHR]

Remember...once upon a time Jazz pilots agreed to fly the 757 for dash wages...

[rudder]

Remember...once upon a time Jazz pilots agreed to fly the 757 for dash wages...

Wrong. But don’t let that stop you from repeating the myth.

[Vanguard]

lol look at you little online bully. Yes we have destroyed this industry, it is our fault that Jazz and Encore pay their FOs 40k a year, and their captains just a bit more than that, it is our fault that our national carrier pays their pilots 55k for 4 years sorry for accepting job offers that pay way better than that we should have asked you first

Jazz started paying 40k a year because of Jazz PML 1 and then PML 2. You idiots don't know your own history.

Well actually Jazz started paying that because of Sky Regional (Q and Emb ops) and Georgian (RJ) bottom feeding and driving the costs down.
The PML’s were just sweeteners (carrots) for accepting lower pay.

Who is the “idiot” now???

Who started the debacle and was at the front end of this? AIR CANADA.

Can I get a definition of "idiot"?

[JHR]

Remember...once upon a time Jazz pilots agreed to fly the 757 for dash wages...

Wrong. But don’t let that stop you from repeating the myth.

It's not wrong. Lowest paid 757 Captains in the world
And now your EMB Capts make even less

[YC87DRVR]

Jazz started paying 40k a year because of Jazz PML 1 and then PML 2. You idiots don't know your own history.

Well actually Jazz started paying that because of Sky Regional (Q and Emb ops) and Georgian (RJ) bottom feeding and driving the costs down.
The PML’s were just sweeteners (carrots) for accepting lower pay.

Who is the “idiot” now???

Who started the debacle and was at the front end of this? AIR CANADA.

Can I get a definition of "idiot"?

Yeah I don’t care whose fault it is, just pointing out the fact you called them idiots for not knowing their history while being wrong in stating facts about that history.

[ads-b]

Remember...once upon a time Jazz pilots agreed to fly the 757 for dash wages...

Wrong. But don’t let that stop you from repeating the myth.

It's not wrong. Lowest paid 757 Captains in the world
And now your EMB Capts make even less

He’s not wrong. They took the higher wages for the 757 and spread the gains across the entire pilot group.