Emirates after AC

[goldeneagle]

In the 90's the median income in Canada would afford you a detached house and two late model cars in the driveway. To be able to afford those assets as easily now you would need to make $400k, perhaps even more.

Son is 32, he is a plumber. He owns a 4 bedroom house on a 1/4 acre lot in town. Parked in the driveway he has a 2024 pickup. His partner has a 2019 pickup parked in the driveway. She works as an office assistant. Between them, they make nowhere near 400K, yet they can afford a detached home and 2 late model vehicles.

Daughter is a nurse, mid 30's, single mom with a 10 yr old at home. She owns a 3 bedroom rancher on a city lot, parked in her driveway is a 2019 SUV. She is on a cul-de-sac where most of the other families have kids in that age range as well, great location with no traffic and lots of kids.

Life is about choices, and priorities. Financially, it's all about managing the income one has, and spending it on the priorities. I dont think son has ever stepped inside a Starbucks. One of the big things for him, he never took on any debt other than the house, then bought the truck as his 'arrived' splurge after getting the red seal papers.

FYI, dont think either of them has ever ordered in for dinner, you wont find a case of beer in the house if you go there. One thing wife and I did after they bought the first home, for christmas that year, they got a freezer. Both stock up when they find a good deal on stuff that can go in the freezer. Son also tends to put a deer in the freezer most years in the fall.

Daughter works, sometimes crazy shifts, and she has the little one at home. Slow cooker is your friend, when she leaves for a shift that'll get her home late, prep the slow cooker before heading off to work, when she gets home, dinner is ready to go. Slow cooker will turn the cheapest / toughest piece of meat into something tender and delicious, with that added benefit of a healthy meal. Grandson is 10 now, so she has been able to ditch a major expense, no longer needs daycare for him after school. He is thrilled with his new found independence, he can walk home after school, and be there on his own for a few hours.

So no, you dont need a 400k income to have a detatched home and a relatively modern car in the driveway, but you do need to set priorities and spend / live accordingly. Both of our kids have done it, you can too if you set your mind to it.

[Tanker299]

In the 90's the median income in Canada would afford you a detached house and two late model cars in the driveway. To be able to afford those assets as easily now you would need to make $400k, perhaps even more.

Son is 32, he is a plumber. He owns a 4 bedroom house on a 1/4 acre lot in town. Parked in the driveway he has a 2024 pickup. His partner has a 2019 pickup parked in the driveway. She works as an office assistant. Between them, they make nowhere near 400K, yet they can afford a detached home and 2 late model vehicles.

Daughter is a nurse, mid 30's, single mom with a 10 yr old at home. She owns a 3 bedroom rancher on a city lot, parked in her driveway is a 2019 SUV. She is on a cul-de-sac where most of the other families have kids in that age range as well, great location with no traffic and lots of kids.

Life is about choices, and priorities. Financially, it's all about managing the income one has, and spending it on the priorities. I dont think son has ever stepped inside a Starbucks. One of the big things for him, he never took on any debt other than the house, then bought the truck as his 'arrived' splurge after getting the red seal papers.

FYI, dont think either of them has ever ordered in for dinner, you wont find a case of beer in the house if you go there. One thing wife and I did after they bought the first home, for christmas that year, they got a freezer. Both stock up when they find a good deal on stuff that can go in the freezer. Son also tends to put a deer in the freezer most years in the fall.

Daughter works, sometimes crazy shifts, and she has the little one at home. Slow cooker is your friend, when she leaves for a shift that'll get her home late, prep the slow cooker before heading off to work, when she gets home, dinner is ready to go. Slow cooker will turn the cheapest / toughest piece of meat into something tender and delicious, with that added benefit of a healthy meal. Grandson is 10 now, so she has been able to ditch a major expense, no longer needs daycare for him after school. He is thrilled with his new found independence, he can walk home after school, and be there on his own for a few hours.

So no, you dont need a 400k income to have a detatched home and a relatively modern car in the driveway, but you do need to set priorities and spend / live accordingly. Both of our kids have done it, you can too if you set your mind to it.

You can’t afford beer, the odd indulgence, or ordering in once in a while — and that’s the crux of the issue. I grew up on a street where most homeowners had lived there for 40-plus years, often since the homes were built. They had three kids, two cars, and only one parent worked. Many were blue-collar tradesmen, and quite a few never finished high school.

Today, those exact same houses require two incomes, and families are told they have to “prioritize” or “sacrifice” the small things that used to be normal parts of life. Back then, they could afford not just the essentials but also a few luxuries — a TV, a microwave — both of which were far more expensive relative to income than they are now. The point isn’t that people can’t budget; it’s that the math has changed.

[flying4dollars]

In the 90's the median income in Canada would afford you a detached house and two late model cars in the driveway. To be able to afford those assets as easily now you would need to make $400k, perhaps even more.

Son is 32, he is a plumber. He owns a 4 bedroom house on a 1/4 acre lot in town. Parked in the driveway he has a 2024 pickup. His partner has a 2019 pickup parked in the driveway. She works as an office assistant. Between them, they make nowhere near 400K, yet they can afford a detached home and 2 late model vehicles.

Daughter is a nurse, mid 30's, single mom with a 10 yr old at home. She owns a 3 bedroom rancher on a city lot, parked in her driveway is a 2019 SUV. She is on a cul-de-sac where most of the other families have kids in that age range as well, great location with no traffic and lots of kids.

Life is about choices, and priorities. Financially, it's all about managing the income one has, and spending it on the priorities. I dont think son has ever stepped inside a Starbucks. One of the big things for him, he never took on any debt other than the house, then bought the truck as his 'arrived' splurge after getting the red seal papers.

FYI, dont think either of them has ever ordered in for dinner, you wont find a case of beer in the house if you go there. One thing wife and I did after they bought the first home, for christmas that year, they got a freezer. Both stock up when they find a good deal on stuff that can go in the freezer. Son also tends to put a deer in the freezer most years in the fall.

Daughter works, sometimes crazy shifts, and she has the little one at home. Slow cooker is your friend, when she leaves for a shift that'll get her home late, prep the slow cooker before heading off to work, when she gets home, dinner is ready to go. Slow cooker will turn the cheapest / toughest piece of meat into something tender and delicious, with that added benefit of a healthy meal. Grandson is 10 now, so she has been able to ditch a major expense, no longer needs daycare for him after school. He is thrilled with his new found independence, he can walk home after school, and be there on his own for a few hours.

So no, you dont need a 400k income to have a detatched home and a relatively modern car in the driveway, but you do need to set priorities and spend / live accordingly. Both of our kids have done it, you can too if you set your mind to it.

You can’t afford beer, the odd indulgence, or ordering in once in a while — and that’s the crux of the issue. I grew up on a street where most homeowners had lived there for 40-plus years, often since the homes were built. They had three kids, two cars, and only one parent worked. Many were blue-collar tradesmen, and quite a few never finished high school.

Today, those exact same houses require two incomes, and families are told they have to “prioritize” or “sacrifice” the small things that used to be normal parts of life. Back then, they could afford not just the essentials but also a few luxuries — a TV, a microwave — both of which were far more expensive relative to income than they are now. The point isn’t that people can’t budget; it’s that the math has changed.

I absolutely agree with that statement. In fact that can't even be refuted. However, goldeneagle's synopsis of his family life really echoes the sentiment that budgeting and fiscal responsibility is probably more important now than ever. So that point becomes relevant. The statement that a $400k salary is necessary for a detached home is a bit of an exaggeration unless this includes a level of opulence that requires that kind of income.

[The Brantford Boomer]

ZACTLY. YOU CANT AFFORD A HOUSE CAUSE YOU WASTE ALL YOUR MONEY ON COFFEE AND UBER EATS.

[thepoors]

ZACTLY. YOU CANT AFFORD A HOUSE CAUSE YOU WASTE ALL YOUR MONEY ON COFFEE AND UBER EATS.

I love this account.

[thepoors]

In the 90's the median income in Canada would afford you a detached house and two late model cars in the driveway. To be able to afford those assets as easily now you would need to make $400k, perhaps even more.

Son is 32, he is a plumber. He owns a 4 bedroom house on a 1/4 acre lot in town. Parked in the driveway he has a 2024 pickup. His partner has a 2019 pickup parked in the driveway. She works as an office assistant. Between them, they make nowhere near 400K, yet they can afford a detached home and 2 late model vehicles.

Daughter is a nurse, mid 30's, single mom with a 10 yr old at home. She owns a 3 bedroom rancher on a city lot, parked in her driveway is a 2019 SUV. She is on a cul-de-sac where most of the other families have kids in that age range as well, great location with no traffic and lots of kids.

Life is about choices, and priorities. Financially, it's all about managing the income one has, and spending it on the priorities. I dont think son has ever stepped inside a Starbucks. One of the big things for him, he never took on any debt other than the house, then bought the truck as his 'arrived' splurge after getting the red seal papers.

FYI, dont think either of them has ever ordered in for dinner, you wont find a case of beer in the house if you go there. One thing wife and I did after they bought the first home, for christmas that year, they got a freezer. Both stock up when they find a good deal on stuff that can go in the freezer. Son also tends to put a deer in the freezer most years in the fall.

Daughter works, sometimes crazy shifts, and she has the little one at home. Slow cooker is your friend, when she leaves for a shift that'll get her home late, prep the slow cooker before heading off to work, when she gets home, dinner is ready to go. Slow cooker will turn the cheapest / toughest piece of meat into something tender and delicious, with that added benefit of a healthy meal. Grandson is 10 now, so she has been able to ditch a major expense, no longer needs daycare for him after school. He is thrilled with his new found independence, he can walk home after school, and be there on his own for a few hours.

So no, you dont need a 400k income to have a detatched home and a relatively modern car in the driveway, but you do need to set priorities and spend / live accordingly. Both of our kids have done it, you can too if you set your mind to it.

Conveniently left out where this utopia is. Sure in Timmins, Sudbury, or Thunder Bay this might be realistic. You also suffer everything those places don't have to offer. Plus the winters they do. Not to mention, these examples have local employment and don't have to commute to a base to be able to do their job. We don't have the luxury of moving anywhere in the country without the hell of commuting.

[The Brantford Boomer]

I love this account.

DONT EVEN TALK TO ME UNLESS YOU GOT 10000 HOURS KID

[digits_]

ALPA should really make a note to get this topic deleted when they start trying to win the public over for the next strike during contract negotations...

[cjp]

One can always define one's life as opulent, when one has access to debt. Most people have lots of nice things - but no one owns anything anymore.

Getting back to the OP, it's tough to argue with the stability NA provides, particularly at a giant like AC. The culture may suck, but if you treat it like a 9-5 blue collar job that it is, things will be alright. We're just really cool bus drivers, but really lame astronauts.

Good luck in your decision.

[thepoors]

I love this account.

DONT EVEN TALK TO ME UNLESS YOU GOT 10000 HOURS KID

I bet back in your day you had to have 10000hrs in a Navajo before AC would even look at you right?

[The Brantford Boomer]

HOW ABOUT YOU CANCEL YOUR $7.99 NETFLIX ACCOUNT AND BUY YOURSELF SOME BOOTSTRAPS TOO BAD YOU CANT JUST ORDER THOSE ON HTTP://WWW.AMAZON.COM

[Dias]

Canada has the worst housing affordability to income ratio in the entire OECD, and it's not even close. It's up 80% since 2004. Seeing people trying to defend it is the weirdest form of Stockholm Syndrome.

[cjp]

HOW ABOUT YOU CANCEL YOUR $7.99 NETFLIX ACCOUNT AND BUY YOURSELF SOME BOOTSTRAPS TOO BAD YOU CANT JUST ORDER THOSE ON HTTP://WWW.AMAZON.COM

You can get Netflix for 7.99? Damn. I remember when Netflix was by mail and you ordered the DVD's.

Apparently they (Amazon) has those too. Boot straps that is.

https://www.amazon.ca/Boots-Straps-Anti ... 25&sr=8-26

[MorePlates]

Son is 32, he is a plumber. He owns a 4 bedroom house on a 1/4 acre lot in town. Parked in the driveway he has a 2024 pickup. His partner has a 2019 pickup parked in the driveway. She works as an office assistant. Between them, they make nowhere near 400K, yet they can afford a detached home and 2 late model vehicles.

Daughter is a nurse, mid 30's, single mom with a 10 yr old at home. She owns a 3 bedroom rancher on a city lot, parked in her driveway is a 2019 SUV. She is on a cul-de-sac where most of the other families have kids in that age range as well, great location with no traffic and lots of kids.

Life is about choices, and priorities. Financially, it's all about managing the income one has, and spending it on the priorities. I dont think son has ever stepped inside a Starbucks. One of the big things for him, he never took on any debt other than the house, then bought the truck as his 'arrived' splurge after getting the red seal papers.

FYI, dont think either of them has ever ordered in for dinner, you wont find a case of beer in the house if you go there. One thing wife and I did after they bought the first home, for christmas that year, they got a freezer. Both stock up when they find a good deal on stuff that can go in the freezer. Son also tends to put a deer in the freezer most years in the fall.

Daughter works, sometimes crazy shifts, and she has the little one at home. Slow cooker is your friend, when she leaves for a shift that'll get her home late, prep the slow cooker before heading off to work, when she gets home, dinner is ready to go. Slow cooker will turn the cheapest / toughest piece of meat into something tender and delicious, with that added benefit of a healthy meal. Grandson is 10 now, so she has been able to ditch a major expense, no longer needs daycare for him after school. He is thrilled with his new found independence, he can walk home after school, and be there on his own for a few hours.

So no, you dont need a 400k income to have a detatched home and a relatively modern car in the driveway, but you do need to set priorities and spend / live accordingly. Both of our kids have done it, you can too if you set your mind to it.

I hope everyone reads this and really understands the point of this senior pilot, we’ve been lucky to have his insight on this forum. Amazing stuff.

Stop asking for more when you already have a world-class contract. Can’t afford living here? Now you can, all thanks to Goldeneagle.

No Starbucks. Don’t order in for dinner. No beer. Get a slow cooker. Seriously, get your shit together guys, out here complaining all the time.

And while you’re at it, make sure to cancel your Disney+ and Netflix subscriptions.

[short bus]

goldeneagle doesnt work at AC, he does however make good points.

calm yourself

[Bede]

Canada has the worst housing affordability to income ratio in the entire OECD, and it's not even close. It's up 80% since 2004. Seeing people trying to defend it is the weirdest form of Stockholm Syndrome.

No one is disputing that. Young people who are trying to get into the housing market in Canada today have a disadvantage compared to previous generations. However, saying that you need an income of $350k-$400k to have the same lifestyle as someone 30 years ago, is simply not borne out by the facts.

I was discussing this topic with my dad. When he moved to Canada as a skilled tradesman, he made $5.50/hr. Adjusted for inflation, that's $26/hr. The same tradesman earns over $50/hr today.

Each generation has it's unique challenges- whether it's housing affordability, inflation, unemployment, or low wages. What does seem to be unique is the victimhood culture that permeates today's society. The idea that young people today are victims of a rapacious older generation who grew up in an economic utopia only to screw over future generations. Young people (not to mention immigrants) have always had it harder than middle age folks.

[twa22]

Canada has the worst housing affordability to income ratio in the entire OECD, and it's not even close. It's up 80% since 2004. Seeing people trying to defend it is the weirdest form of Stockholm Syndrome.

No one is disputing that. Young people who are trying to get into the housing market in Canada today have a disadvantage compared to previous generations. However, saying that you need an income of $350k-$400k to have the same lifestyle as someone 30 years ago, is simply not borne out by the facts.

I was discussing this topic with my dad. When he moved to Canada as a skilled tradesman, he made $5.50/hr. Adjusted for inflation, that's $26/hr. The same tradesman earns over $50/hr today.

Each generation has it's unique challenges- whether it's housing affordability, inflation, unemployment, or low wages. What does seem to be unique is the victimhood culture that permeates today's society. The idea that young people today are victims of a rapacious older generation who grew up in an economic utopia only to screw over future generations. Young people (not to mention immigrants) have always had it harder than middle age folks.

Bede, what numbers do you need to see to convince you that need a fairly high combined salary to live comfortably. What is even your definition of comfortable?

https://www.thestar.com/real-estate/how ... 98c98.html

Houses cost double what they were 30 years ago, cars cost double, alot of things cost double, yet salaries are the same, adjusted for inflation

For what it's worth, here is an article from a few years ago on the salary needed to "thrive"

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/ ... n-toronto/

This is almost 2 years ago. For a single person to "thrive", they needed an after tax income of 83k living in Mississauga... That's around 120k pretax, so combined 240k... 2 years later, and 300k combined isn't exaggerated

You believe what you want Bede, I'm sure you'll find some counter argument to this also

[Red_Comet]

Canada has the worst housing affordability to income ratio in the entire OECD, and it's not even close. It's up 80% since 2004. Seeing people trying to defend it is the weirdest form of Stockholm Syndrome.

Each generation has it's unique challenges- whether it's housing affordability, inflation, unemployment, or low wages. What does seem to be unique is the victimhood culture that permeates today's society. The idea that young people today are victims of a rapacious older generation who grew up in an economic utopia only to screw over future generations. Young people (not to mention immigrants) have always had it harder than middle age folks.

Sorry Bede, this is just wrong. Boomers have had it better than both their parents and their kids (and grandkids). This is borne out by any objective metric. If you zoom out to thousand year history cycles, you can say that civilizations rise and fall. And ours is definitely on the road to perdition. But the entire promise of liberal capitalism in the post-war period was "The End of History". A continuously improving lifestyle based on capitalism and liberalism, even if there are a few bumps along the road with the odd recession here and there. But any objective analysis over the past twenty years puts that thesis to rest. And again, we are all in this together. No society has every managed to keep a gerontocracy going, for very obvious reasons.

Humans are a funny bunch, at the end of the day we only learn by touching the hot stove (or cave fire). It became obvious to me a few years ago that older generations just are not capable of putting themselves in the shoes of young people today. Their minds are are crystallized by their formative years, where all they had to do was literally pull themselves up by their bootstraps, start cooking their own meals and they'd have a home, two cars, a family and a lifelong pension by just being a working adult. Those days are long gone, and are never coming back in this iteration of society. Who knows what comes next, but this system is very clearly reaching its limits as its contradictions tear it apart.

For my dear boomers, make sure to visit China when you get a chance. Chat with some locals and expats. Ask them about their quality of life. How much do they pay for housing & living expenses? How is medical care? Compare that with back home, and realize they are a staunch and proud communist country. We love marketing ourselves as the best, but reality always wins out in the end.

[digits_]

This is almost 2 years ago. For a single person to "thrive", they needed an after tax income of 83k living in Mississauga... That's around 120k pretax, so combined 240k... 2 years later, and 300k combined isn't exaggerated

Why are you doubling and combining numbers?

That you would need 120k to live comfortably as a single person in Toronto, sounds reasonable.

300k is not.

[Inverted2]

I think he just means if you’re single or on a single income you’re a renter and not likely to own a house. You can live on 120k a year in Toronto but forget about a house and 2 vehicles in the driveway.

[daedalusx]

120K in Toronto? Lmao.

Enjoy your 50 year mortgage and your 15 year car loan. You will own nothing and be happy.

[twa22]

I think he just means if you’re single or on a single income you’re a renter and not likely to own a house. You can live on 120k a year in Toronto but forget about a house and 2 vehicles in the driveway.

Sure am... and for what it's worth, it's hard to find exact numbers online when it comes to even qualifying for a mortgage, but from what I found here

https://www.ratehub.ca/blog/can-i-affor ... llar-home/

217k salary to MAYBE QUALIFY for a million dollar home, at 20% down

That's just to qualify for a mortgage... that doesn't factor anything else

So does 300k combined salary still seem silly to own a 1 million dollar home?

[nohojob]

300k after taxes and everything else looks more like 150k.
A million dollar home mortgage would be roughly 4000 a month.so 48k a year. So 300k for a million home is doable but it is not that great.

[digits_]

300k after taxes and everything else looks more like 150k.

What's the 'everything else'?

[nohojob]

Well, union dues, medical insurances, pension...

I am getting an average of 50% of my gross.