The best airplane for tail wheel training?

[Cat Driver]

I'm just going to stick with the notion that I fly a tailwheel airplane because I like it, I have fun doing it, and I'd actually argue that it's good for my health.

For what it's worth, my wife and I bought our Canuck and put it it the hangar while I had one last round of chemotherapy to get through and the significant possibilty that I wouldn't get my medical back. The new (to us)airplane in the hangar was just one more motivation to jump through all the hoops and get on with enjoying life.

You have it right fl80, one must do their best today, because tomorrow is in the future.

I am sure you know why I asked the question about a tail wheel being ugly, if not let me elaborate.

There can be no argument that learning to fly a tail wheel airplane makes for a better pilot when it comes to airplane handling......so if they are not ugly what other reason is there for them being so rare in the training fleet?

[Cat Driver]

I believe that Boundary Bay has the most airpanes and instructors of any airport in the lower main land.

What would be the total number of training airplanes there? ( single engine )

How many flight instructors work there?

How many tail wheel airplanes are there in the schools?

How many instructors are teaching on tail wheel airplanes?

[MichaelP]

"I believe that Boundary Bay has the most airpanes and instructors of any airport in the lower main land."
True

"What would be the total number of training airplanes there? ( single engine )"
Getting on towards 100

"How many flight instructors work there?"
Around 60 rated instructors

"How many tail wheel airplanes are there in the schools?"
Two.

"How many instructors are teaching on tail wheel airplanes?"
Three @ CZBB inc me + one who is in your old 150 CAK3

FL80, are you hangared next to the Decathlon?

[SuperchargedRS]

Also Southern Skies in Penticton has a 7GCBC with low time instructors teaching tail wheel and students soloing for only a few bucks more than a 172.

Is the few bucks more than a 172 because it takes longer to send them solo, or is the 7GCBC more expensive?

To rent the champ solo I am paying 75 her hr wet, the citabria was also 75 but per tach hour wet (but the fuel surcharge is more). This is down south though.

What's wrong with a hobby?
Are we not legitimate if we fly for the fun of it rather than towards some dream of gold braid and a captain's salary?.

I'm just saying it would be better if the weekend warriors just stuck with their 172s, if your flying all the time I have no prob; It's a currency thing more of a commercial thing.

[MichaelP]

I'm just saying it would be better if the weekend warriors just stuck with their 172s

That's somewhat offensive...

I flew for many many years as a "Weekend Warrior" flying all sorts of aeroplanes.
Once in a blue moon I'd fly a Cessna and write "yes, Cessna again" in the remarks...

Don't you think that weekend warriors would be safer in aeroplanes they can see out of and flying aeroplanes needing a higher level of skill?
Or be like Sunday drivers weaving down the road in a Cessna 172 oblivious to a good lookout as it's not that easy to do!

[Cat Driver]

"How many instructors are teaching on tail wheel airplanes?"
Three @ CZBB inc me + one who is in your old 150 CAK3

I thought he instructs at ZBB Michael, is he only flying out of Delta?

[fl80]

FL80, are you hangared next to the Decathlon?

I don't see a Decathalon around, I'm at YXX beside a really nice J3.

[Cat Driver]

I'm just saying it would be better if the weekend warriors just stuck with their 172s, if your flying all the time I have no prob; It's a currency thing more of a commercial thing.

You lost me completely there Supercharged, what are you trying to say?

There are a lot of "weekend warriors " in Canada who own tail wheel airplanes so you are not making any sense that I can see in that statement.

Can you elaborate on that so I can try and get a grip on what you are saying?

[Cat Driver]

For MichaelP:

http://home.xcountry.tv/~dann/id17.htm

[Old Dog Flying]

.: You commented earlier that you converted the C150 Aerobat because the Canuck was not certified for aerobatics...Sorry buddy but you are wrong on that point. The old Canuck was certified for posotive `G`` maneuvers. Bob G ran an aerobatic school at YPK for years using the Canuck. I had 4 copies of the Canuck POH and would be glad to loan one to you but some SOB stole them.

Mind you the Canuck being underpowered as it is doesn`t do very good aeros

[Cat Driver]

I stand corrected old Dog, just goes to show I should have did more research...not only are you older than me you are smarter.

Now that I think of it I do remember the F80 was stressed more that 6 G's positive...what was the exact number O.D.? can you find it somewhere?

Anyhow what do you think about the Clipped Wing Cub with an 0-200 in it?

[MichaelP]

Yes I looped and rolled Bob Guilmore's Fleet 80, C FHHE

I'd checked out in it including spins, went out of my way to Pitt Meadows because it was the only proper aeroplane I could rent here at that time.
'Could never tighten the lap strap enough on one flight... A closer inspection revealed the strap going through the loop and under the seat. I was tightening it against the weight of my bottom!
I doubled the strap properly in the loop buckle and all was well again...
The Canuck's a good aeroplane.

[Cat Driver]

Agreed Michael and it does a proper spin, you can spin them forever, they are a joy to teach on.

[fl80]

I'm just saying it would be better if the weekend warriors just stuck with their 172s, if your flying all the time I have no prob; It's a currency thing more of a commercial thing.

As one of those "weekend warriors" I'm not going to get all torqued up over this kind of thinking but it does seem like a bit of a leap.

If I extend that kind of thinking, I should come to the conclusion that those flying commercially are more current and should therefore demonstrate better skills, and airmanship than those of us who are only private pilots - so I wonder how I explain the guy in the Dash 8 at Campbell River trying to blow my lowly Canuck over at the fuel pumps, or the guy in the Navajo blowing through Chilliwack on a diagonal track over the runway at about 1100 feet?

[Cat Driver]

fl80, the explanation is quite simple.

There is no shortage of border line skills and below border line decision makers in commercial aviation.

The bar is not set very high to get the license..from there the Peter Principle works just fine.


You have just given a couple of examples.

[SuperchargedRS]

What I am saying is I believe if someone is going to fly rarely, they should operate a more forgiving plane, like a trike with a wide stance; like a 172.

If they get rusty (which they will if they rarely fly) they are more likely to end up stopped on the runway in the 172 instead of in a ditch, or stopped upside down, etc.

If you had a friend who was going to ride a motorcycle twice a year would you rather he drive a scooter or a litre race bike?

If your going to be flying rusty dont fly something that will have little tolerance for it...how do you think all those warbirds the rich doctors end up crashing???

[fl80]

If your going to be flying rusty dont fly something that will have little tolerance for it...

And as a lowly "weekend warrior", I would argue that if you're not competent and current you shouldn't be flying anything at all.

[Cat Driver]

If your going to be flying rusty dont fly something that will have little tolerance for it...

What do you mean by little tolerance for it?

Are you suggesting that a tail wheel airplane is significantly harder to fly than a nose wheel airplane?

how do you think all those warbirds the rich doctors end up crashing??

Hmmm... I'm trying to remember the last doctor that crashed a war bird, but if they did it may have been due to lack of either proper initial training or lack of recurrent training.

The way I see it all pilots should get recurrent training...the type of airplane has nothing to do with it.

Before you get offended, I am only giving my opinion on this based on a few hours flying tail wheel airplanes.

[Cat Driver]

And as a lowly "weekend warrior", I would argue that if you're not competent and current you shouldn't be flying anything at all.

Bingo.

[Old Dog Flying]

.: My rusty old brain seems to recall that the Fleet Canuck was stressed for +9 and -4 Gs and like the commercial sez..Ìt takes a licking and keeps on ticking`. As for spinning the Canuck..while learning to fly at Windsor, at about 17 hours, I climbed to just under 10 grand and spun a thousand left..a thousand right... and so on down to 2000 for recovery...but then I was just 2 weeks into my 17th year and was totally infallable.

One thing I liked to do with students...who were capable ..was a 3 turn spin, entering and exitting along the same road. Some could, some could not...they later became 250 hr instructors. But we are talking about good old airplanes, not personalities!

Barney

[fl80]

the Fleet Canuck was stressed for +9 and -4 Gs

That seems like a pretty good memory, and I believe that I've seen those numbers associated with the Canuck as originally built. I've been checking through my documents and the STC for the O-200 installation reduces those numbers to +3.8 and -1.9 Gs. But then I don't think I'm likely to go out to perform significant aerobatics in a 63 year old airplane.

[Cat Driver]

.: My rusty old brain seems to recall that the Fleet Canuck was stressed for +9 and -4 Gs

That is exactly the numbers I remember so your brain is not that fried yet.

As for spinning the Canuck..while learning to fly at Windsor, at about 17 hours, I climbed to just under 10 grand and spun a thousand left..a thousand right... and so on down to 2000 for recovery...but then I was just 2 weeks into my 17th year and was totally infallable.

Small world isn't it. The last time I instructed in an F80 I was flying for Gordon Airways in Windsor, but I was 30 by then and still thought I was 17. Used to do the same thing down in the practice area near Essex.

Gordon Airways had a real weird fleet of airplanes.

For training::

A fleet Canuck.

A Piper Colt.

A Cessna 150.

A Cessna 172.

A Beech Musketeer.

A Beech Debonair.

For Charter we had

A Piper Apache.

A Beech 18.

Two DeHavilland Doves.

And two helicopters.

A Hughes 269.

A Hughes 300.

I was the chief pilot and flew them all randomly as needed.

The only thing I flew every week day was the two helicopters, the rest I flew whenever the need arose.

Can you imagine TC allowing that now?

[Old Dog Flying]

Here is one that I helped to rebuild. Probably the nicest Canuck in existance thanks to the skills of another old fart at Langley

[fl80]

Hey Old Dog, you know you've got two canucks in the pic, right?

And there should be no doubt that EAU is very likely the nicest Canuck around.

[Old Dog Flying]

Yes I know! I waited for about an hour to get that shot!

This one is my old Moth..in 1:32 scale with a much older me Photoshopped into it.