Mass exodus at Wasaya

[MrWings]

There are some that, because of connections or timing, avoiding working the ramp. I was one.

But I knew several that could not find a flying job anywhere during lean times. So they took a ramp job to stay in the aviation world. Eventually they were promoted or caught wind of an opening elsewhere.

Many of those that took jobs outside of aviation to survive stayed out for good.

Sometimes, if you wanna fly, ya do what ya gotta do. I'm not saying it is always worth it but it is your choice.

[MrWings]

The problems arise when they coerce these new pilots into working for them by promising a quick upgrade to a plane, when in fact that is unlikely. Also it is poor practice to pay these people a crappy wage, pay them a respectable wage and they will do a respectable job if you ask me.

I left a company because of this practice. They never did it to me but I didn't like how they were treating new employees. I thought that if they were screwing them that they might turn around and screw me one day even with my seniority.

[Doc]

Well, I had coffee with Reality Check. Now I know where he's comming from. We go back quite a ways...but I still think he's dead wrong on the rampie thing! Great to see you again....we must get together when we have more time on our hands. Tell BB, the "cobra" says HI!

[Reality Checker]

...and I had to buy my own coffee! I think you actualy grew a few hairs on that bald melon since last time we talked. Heres a piece of advise for the young guns, find yourself a low stress retirement gig like Doc has...it puts years on your life instead of the other way round.

[Red Line]

agree to disagree! all's well that ends well

[Chuck Ellsworth]

No,No,No it has not ended well yet...I still can't remember what company Pratt X 3 was talking about.....

Cat Driver wrote:
Does the company have a management culture that sees nothing wrong with pitting numerous young hopefulls against each other vying for limited openings in airplanes where the wait could be for years?

I don't think I would be wild about being part of that type of operation if for no other reason than by the time I got the hopefull they may need a lot of training just to get back to the skills they would have had before they had to quit flying to do manual labor that anyone with a strong back and a weak mind can do.

You are asking me a rather tough question seeing that I have never experienced such an operation because I never ran into that kind of company during my career. Thankfully....

Pratt X 3 said:

But you did, in fact, work for such a company.

I still can't remember working for such a company, so come on Pratt X 3 jolt my memory.

[Pratt X 3]

No,No,No it has not ended well yet...I still can't remember what company Pratt X 3 was talking about.....

I still can't remember working for such a company, so come on Pratt X 3 jolt my memory.

Old joke:
How do you keep a Cat Driver in suspense?

I'll tell you tomorrow...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

[FlyBoy_4_Life]

Hey

Wasaya has been around for many years because they provide the service in which they are designed to do. Many AC pilots have high praise for the company! Now obviously the entire pilot race is not always going to be all smiles and full of happiness. Every single company has its problems, that should be lesson # 1.

I do not condone and in fact am very sad to hear that such ramp guys or “wanabies” are treated so poorly. They are training pilots just with low hours; they want to be in your seat however they are not because their logbook dictates such. Maybe some of them have a bad attitude and do things such as other people have said however treating ramp guys (pilots) like crap…probably not the best idea as well!

If the ramp attendants really do despise all of the crap that does come with groundwork…maybe the ramp is not for you! It is like an instructor complaining they dislike teaching, a 747 guy saying they hate long haul, I think you can understand where I am going with this. I think the ramp attendants have a lot of hard work put onto them…however they were not forced into this position; they elected to go there and stay.
I have much respect for ramp attendants because they are working from the ground up, the way we were each taught!

Maybe Instructing…
Life is hard throw in a Canadian aviation dream with a pathetic logbook….the icing on the cake!

If you want this career you get there…if you do not well then you do not!
That is the choice…so make one!

Work hard no matter where you are and you are bound to succeed!
Always!

[Tibor]

As soon as Cat, Doc and XSBank hire, or have their company's hire 200-300 hr pilots Ill start taking them seriously....though it will still be hard to take Doc seriously when, as a moderator, finds the need to name call/insult someone on every post.

[Doc]

Well Tibor, we just finished doing a Be200 PPC (yes, a PPC, not a PCC!) on a guy with just 500 hours. I think he had about 475 when we hired him. I found him through this very forum, BTW. He is working out very well, thank you. Spent a 12 hour day with him just yesterday! We have a 1000 hour guy flying the Be200 with us, who's been on the aircraft for more than 2 years now, so I suspect he was pretty low time when we put him on the aircraft? I'd cut him loose anywhere anytime! We have no bonds. We have no "money up front" requirements. We have no wannabes!

Tibor......feel better now? Oh, and piss off! Consider yourself told.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

As soon as Cat, Doc and XSBank hire, or have their company's hire 200-300 hr pilots Ill start taking them seriously....

How best to respond to Tibor?

I have hired more pilots during my career than I can remember.

Time is not a measure of a pilots worth, the most important thing is attitude and the ability to think.

I would rather hire a keen willing to learn PPL and teach her / him than a high time pilot who is marginal in all areas of being a pilot.....and there are lots out there.

Flying an airplane is at best a job that can be described as semi skilled and the average individual with average motor skills and average I.Q. can become very good at it.

It is more to do with attitude and decision making than anything else.

If you can read and write and are not completely color blind you can learn to fly any airplane out there.....

[xsbank]

You're right, Doc, Tibor, piss off.

We have a 200 hour guy who is working out just fine for us too, and we've had others who have gone on to bigger and better things.

Did I say this already? Tibor, piss off.

[2R]

This post has nothing to do with mass or exodus.In fact there is nothing religious about this thread at all

[Anonymous1]

So Doc, explain this one.....

I, the owner and Chief Pilot, work the ramp for 12 hours yesterday loading about 10,000 lbs of flour, sugar, pop, etc into planes, pulling seats and organizing freight while my low time ramp / pilots do all the flying.

Why can't the Wasaya owners do the ramp work for a Saturday and let the "wannabes" do the flying? It would really shake things up a little, don't ya think?

Not all companies that hire for ramp / flying jobs are the way Doc implies.

[Doc]

Anonymous1....as an owner, if you want to "help" out on the ramp, good for you. Your wannabes actually fly. Which would make them loose their wannabe status? I'm not talking about "other" companies here, I'm talking about Wasaya. Their wannabes don't fly. They're out there day after day hoping to someday get a "ride" and they never know if or when some "Lord of the Airways" has made a negative comment that could prevent them from moving up the food chain. We'll be very old men before you see the likes of the Penis Fish on the ramp getting his hands dirty! Hell man, I'm old already, an I've neve seen it.

[Four1oh]

supply/demand.

And here I thought I summed up this thread back on page 2...

[xsbank]

Anonymous, an attaboy for your enlightened attitude! It sounds like you have the recipe for success, your enthusiasm for growing and managing your business and the pilot's enthusiasm for delivering your product.

Like Doc says, this is all about the unenlightened, the exploiters, the slave drivers and the greedy scumsuckers who pervert this industry on the backs of enthusiastic youth, all in the name of some sort of BS 'proof.' I call it a God complex, throwing your weight around getting off on your 'status.'

Watch your karma you scum of the earth.

[Dark Helmet]

I did not read all 6 pages...just too much which lead me to . So if i am repeating something here, I do apologize.

Doc, CAT (or .) xbanks, you guys are obvioulsy very experienced and well respected and knowlegeable members of this forum. So instead of telling them what the problem is why not give them a solution. Allow me ot elaborate.

All I have heard from the 3 of you is "you are all stupid, you are being slaves, go get a flying job, you are morons, scums, go get a flying job, blah,blahb,blah..........easier said then done! I hate to tell you but you are not helping anyone. These people don't need to hear that (maybe they do, but not several times over).

., you said your started out crop dusting, How did you do it ? Who did you talk to, is that companies still around? how would these guys go about doing that.

Xbanks, you mentioned about a company in the EU hiring guys to fly a challenger, WOW, awesome. What company is that?How would these guys go about getting a job there?. so on and so forth.

Bottom line, companies like Wasaya, are not going to stop hiring pilots to work the ramp, why would they? Pilots are not going to all of the sudden start to turn down ramp jobs, say if Pilot A turned down a job, them pilot B, or C or D would take it. For some it is better to have a carrot dangling in front of them, then no carrot at all. Not saying I agree with that but it is just plain reality. This industry is not as good as it once was when you started. You guys were problably lucky to have started flying from day one. I think everyones wishes they were as privaledged.

Do you think people really want to work the ramp to learn the ropes please, they are doing it because of the lack of choice, knowledge and wisdom.

Helps these guys out, they are new, they are not stupid, just inexperienced and to a certain degree naive. If they are indeed "stupid" them just "dumb it" down for them. Bashing them will accomplish F@#& all. You are all just wasting your breath IMHO.

[Doc]

Nobody is bashing them. Don't work on a ramp. It's really that simple.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

O.K. Dark Helmet I will try and answer your questions.

First off when I first learned to fly there were more pilots than jobs because of all the ex military guys that had learned to fly during and after WW2. For every job there were ten wannabe's

It took me six years from the first flying lesson to my first job as a commercial pilot......so much for how easy it was back then to find a job.

If I recall correctly the the commercial license took 150 hours in those days I know the private took 30 hours. I was the oldest of eight kids in my family and not only did I have to work to pay for everything I got I had to give money to my parents to help keep the family going.

I had a medical problem for several years that prevented me from getting a job flying ( rheumatoid arthritis.) there was almost two years when I could not even walk never mind work.

To build time from 150 to 252 hours which I had when I was hired to fly the crop dusters I drove delivery trucks, worked in the hangar part time as an apprentice mechanic and had several private airplane owners who let me fly their airplanes for keeping the clean and doing small fix it jobs on them.

I got my first job because the crop dusting company knew me and thought I would make a safe pilot for their operation.

There you go, it was the same then as now....ten pilots for every job.

But I never ever paid for training or upgrades to my licenses once I entered the commercial flying game.

And I never had to sign a bond.

There you go that is how it was for me.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The best piece of advice I can give you young people is you now have the internet.

Get together and make a list of the good companies and the bad ones.

If no one will work for the bad ones your problem will be solved.

[Red Line]

Wow you are still debating this one?! I thought we agreed to disagree! Honestly we could go on for another 6 pages and nothings gonna change. People who haven't logged on in a week aren't gonna go back and read 6 pages just because someone left Wasaya on bad terms (even though 99% of the content here has absolutely nothing to do with Wasaya per se).

It's Sunday afternoon. Take the family out for ice cream!

[Dark Helmet]

O.K. Dark Helmet I will try and answer your questions.

First off when I first learned to fly there were more pilots than jobs because of all the ex military guys that had learned to fly during and after WW2. For every job there were ten wannabe's

It took me six years from the first flying lesson to my first job as a commercial pilot......so much for how easy it was back then to find a job.

If I recall correctly the the commercial license took 150 hours in those days I know the private took 30 hours. I was the oldest of eight kids in my family and not only did I have to work to pay for everything I got I had to give money to my parents to help keep the family going.

I had a medical problem for several years that prevented me from getting a job flying ( rheumatoid arthritis.) there was almost two years when I could not even walk never mind work.

To build time from 150 to 252 hours which I had when I was hired to fly the crop dusters I drove delivery trucks, worked in the hangar part time as an apprentice mechanic and had several private airplane owners who let me fly their airplanes for keeping the clean and doing small fix it jobs on them.

I got my first job because the crop dusting company knew me and thought I would make a safe pilot for their operation.

There you go, it was the same then as now....ten pilots for every job.

But I never ever paid for training or upgrades to my licenses once I entered the commercial flying game.

And I never had to sign a bond.

There you go that is how it was for me.

Good post ..

I must say, That was some good insight.

I did not realize things were not as peachy back then.

Take care

t's Sunday afternoon. Take the family out for ice cream!

It is raining where I am at, not the best weather for ice cream.

[Chaffey]