Future AME Discouraged

[Pat Richard]

" Any people they get to enroll in a Vo-Tech in hopes of learning a trade and getting a job in an industry that is laying off by the thousands, aren't going to be the best or the brightest

That is pretty much what I have been saying for some time now - we are seeing less and less quality experienced people staying in this industry and more mediocrity hanging in, from Canada and abroad. It also explains a lot of the poor quality of many of the newbs coming out school.

[McJagger]

and yet I haven't noticed an increase in accidents due to maintenance.. the pilots still seem to be the weakest link..

maybe, pat richard, being an AME just isn't as hard as your ego has led you to believe.

[c170b53]

Oh I think its safe to say, stuff happens more than anyone wants to admit to and that goes for both groups.

[Pat Richard]

and yet I haven't noticed an increase in accidents due to maintenance.. the pilots still seem to be the weakest link..

maybe, pat richard, being an AME just isn't as hard as your ego has led you to believe.

I was going to ask if you are even an AME, but the reality is you can be whoever you want on the internet so there wouldn't be any real value to your reply.

Sounds like you are waiting for a smoking hole in the ground before you acknowledge what most everyone else is already aware of. If you think everything is being done efficently, and 100% as per regs/ MM's thesedays, you're on drugs. We are effing lucky nothing has hit the ground, yet.

How exactly is my ego bullshitting me about what I have experienced/witnessed in my years as an AME? I sound off on here about wanting freaking wage parity/work conditions/lifestyles that most plumbers and auto mechanics have, and you suggest Im being egotistical?
Are you implying our job is easier/less demanding than those above mentioned, or are you just trying to be a dick?

Im thinking the latter, as I think the other scenario is a joke, but perhaps for some reason you eagerly anticipate the continuing dumbing down of this trade.
If you sincerely do, I can only deduce that you are involved in management and foresee short term financial gains in employing shitty people for shitty wages, in shitty conditions.

Otherwise ,I don't see what direction you could possibly be coming from.

[bombardierfixer]

+1 for dickatude. go back to playing farmville...

[DBA]

Hey every one, ive been reading the posts about the job situation and how AMEs are treated in canada.

Im going to be attending BCIT in sept for the AME E/B2 shortly, but from what ive been reading its not that great of an idea. Is that so with the specialized groups as well. And i've read that the course from bcit gives you credit for the UK i belive. Are the conditions any better over there?

Ive already tried going the automotive technician route, but found that to be not what i was interested in, does anyone have any input on the similiarites, or differences?

Any information would be great...I just feel that there is giant gray cloud over this entire trade in this country, and frankly its putting my off slightly.

HA! I'm starting to look the other way for the simple fact that I can NOT find an apprentice job anywhere. At all. Very, very frustrating.

[gnightingale]

Hi,

AME Discouraged:

Don't be. (Discouraged) You can make a difference, just have a spine and remember that you might have to tell your boss to get fucked once in awhile. Or be prepared to resign. He'll buckle under, and a few years later you will have his job, but I don't reccomend that. Better off keeping under the radar and with an E licence can make a good living.

I have an M2 and have seen lots of the world...........but now divorced.....so has it"s down side...........or upside..........you have to decide.....


I have to ask..............why is BCIT teaching B2 licence?

[c170b53]

Aviation; its an adult version of the snakes and ladders game; you never know when taking the next step whether you'll end up starting all over.

[robertw]

I've been in the business since 1996. Licensed M1 since 2000, M2 since 2005. Started in my first job at $8.25 / hour, now making $70K / year. This industry has been good to me. Sure it hasn't always been fun. I've had to work graveyard shift. Sometimes the job is stressful. I had to put in time working low ($15.00 / hr as a M1 licensed engineer) wages, but like one of the other posters said, you generally get paid what you're worth. I know a guy in Ontario who is such an avionics whiz, his company pays him $85.00 / hour. They make nothing on his labour, but he is so valuable to his company and keeps the customers coming back that it's profitable to them to pay him so much. Stick with a company long enough for the management to see your skills and you will become an asset to them. Too many guys in this industry job hop and I think in the long run it really hurts them.

Specializing in component overhaul or avionics or some other discipline, really makes you worth more. If you're prepared to learn, not just turning wrenches, but learn the CAR's, for goodness sakes your company's MPM or MCM, management will take notice. This is how you work your way into QC, QA or PRM positions. Be prepared to make sacrifices too. Not everything can be measured in terms of dollars. I recently worked a Director of Maintenance position for free just for the the experience and got a flight training unit and an AMO up and running!

Everybody starts somewhere in this industry. Most likely it won't be glamorous. If you are good at what you do and it shows, there's only one way to go but up. If you're an apprentice, I agree that it's tough to find a job, but if you have to put out 1000 resumes before you get a job offer from the outfit Yellow Knife, the Pas or some other less than desireable place to live, get your foot in the door and prove to someone you can actually maintain an aircraft. Going to tech school and incurring a buch of debt to do it, doesn't entitle you a high paying job. You have to prove yourself before you're handed the big paycheque. Be honest with yourself about how much you're really worth. Not how much you believe your self to be worth, but how much value you bring to a company.

If you're jealous of other trades pay, then maybe you should go get re-trained. I know construction workers who work outside in our Canadian winters. I always have worked in (relatively warm and dry) hangers. I know plumbers who have to routinely remove masses of used tampons, fermented and rotting food, feces, small dead animals and other things in thier daily duties. I've never had to do that on an airplane or helicopter.

This is a good industry that offers a lot of possibilities to talented people. Work hard and keep learning and you will go far.

[Stumper]

Be prepared to make sacrifices too. Not everything can be measured in terms of dollars. I recently worked a Director of Maintenance position for free just for the the experience

There you go kids...

With enough sacrifice and hard work then maybe, just maybe, one day you too can be a volunteer DOM

Dare to dream...

[robertw]

There you go kids...

With enough sacrifice and hard work then maybe, just maybe, one day you too can be a volunteer DOM

Dare to dream...

Sarcastic coments do nothing to help the conversation. You've completely ignored the point.

[Stumper]

There you go kids...

With enough sacrifice and hard work then maybe, just maybe, one day you too can be a volunteer DOM

Dare to dream...

Sarcastic coments do nothing to help the conversation. You've completely ignored the point.

Sarcasm???

Hey, I'm right with you on this. I've felt for years that what we really need to turn this profession around is more qualified AME's willing to work for nothing.

[robertw]

Sarcasm???

Hey, I'm right with you on this. I've felt for years that what we really need to turn this profession around is more qualified AME's willing to work for nothing.

I've felt for years that what we really need to turn this industry around is for more qualified AME's to lose negative attitudes like this. Its depressing working with someone who has nothing positive to say.

[billy ray valintine]

I've been in the business since 1996. Licensed M1 since 2000, M2 since 2005. Started in my first job at $8.25 / hour, now making $70K / year. This industry has been good to me. Sure it hasn't always been fun. I've had to work graveyard shift. Sometimes the job is stressful. I had to put in time working low ($15.00 / hr as a M1 licensed engineer) wages, but like one of the other posters said, you generally get paid what you're worth. I know a guy in Ontario who is such an avionics whiz, his company pays him $85.00 / hour. They make nothing on his labour, but he is so valuable to his company and keeps the customers coming back that it's profitable to them to pay him so much. Stick with a company long enough for the management to see your skills and you will become an asset to them. Too many guys in this industry job hop and I think in the long run it really hurts them.

Specializing in component overhaul or avionics or some other discipline, really makes you worth more. If you're prepared to learn, not just turning wrenches, but learn the CAR's, for goodness sakes your company's MPM or MCM, management will take notice. This is how you work your way into QC, QA or PRM positions. Be prepared to make sacrifices too. Not everything can be measured in terms of dollars. I recently worked a Director of Maintenance position for free just for the the experience and got a flight training unit and an AMO up and running!

Everybody starts somewhere in this industry. Most likely it won't be glamorous. If you are good at what you do and it shows, there's only one way to go but up. If you're an apprentice, I agree that it's tough to find a job, but if you have to put out 1000 resumes before you get a job offer from the outfit Yellow Knife, the Pas or some other less than desireable place to live, get your foot in the door and prove to someone you can actually maintain an aircraft. Going to tech school and incurring a buch of debt to do it, doesn't entitle you a high paying job. You have to prove yourself before you're handed the big paycheque. Be honest with yourself about how much you're really worth. Not how much you believe your self to be worth, but how much value you bring to a company.

If you're jealous of other trades pay, then maybe you should go get re-trained. I know construction workers who work outside in our Canadian winters. I always have worked in (relatively warm and dry) hangers. I know plumbers who have to routinely remove masses of used tampons, fermented and rotting food, feces, small dead animals and other things in thier daily duties. I've never had to do that on an airplane or helicopter.

This is a good industry that offers a lot of possibilities to talented people. Work hard and keep learning and you will go far.

wow !
first of all, if you are making 70k/yr , as the pilot ,AME, RRM, Director of Maintenance,and candle stick maker,the first thing i would do is fire that avionic's guy that makes 176,800.00
per year and take his job.(85 dollars per hour x 2080 hrs per year = 176,800.00).
you seem to ask a lot of questions that a PRM should already know,giving the fact you have studied your companies MCM and MPM and CAR'S as stated in other posts.
ignorance is no excuse of the law!,and it sounds to me like some laws could in jeopardy here.
sounds to me like some convincing owner promised you the moon and stars and your not going to let him down.
no shortage of that in aviation,but inexperience is becoming the norm.

brv

[Stumper]

I've felt for years that what we really need to turn this industry around is for more qualified AME's to lose negative attitudes like this. Its depressing working with someone who has nothing positive to say.

You know what; You are absolutely right.

How could I have missed it when it has been right in front of me the whole time. If we can all just stay positive and work for free whenever the opportunity arises then things are bound to change for the better...

You sir have just made your first convert.

Apologies for the earlier sarcasm.

[robertw]

If you dislike this industry, there is a very simple solution. Get out. Obviously since you regard the pay as garbage, the expectations as unreasonable, and the glory of the job negligible, why are you still here? Get out and get re-trained in some other discipline that you will enjoy so you don't take any more years off your life due to the stress and frustration.

[Stumper]

If you dislike this industry, there is a very simple solution. Get out. Obviously since you regard the pay as garbage, the expectations as unreasonable, and the glory of the job negligible, why are you still here? Get out and get re-trained in some other discipline that you will enjoy so you don't take any more years off your life due to the stress and frustration.

Oh my God...


You're in love with me.

[robertw]

Wish I could give you a great big hug.

[Stumper]

Wish I could give you a great big hug.

[Schimunga]

Where is the third amigo? I see Stumpy and BRV making the usual "how sh*tty the industry is" comment here but where is Pat?

So Stumpy, why are you in this industry if the pay is so bad? Have you tried to do something else and failed at it or just lacking the confidence to try?

[Pat Richard]

[PJ1]

Analysis
Examination of the aircraft revealed no pre-impact faults, and all damage was a result of several
tree and ground impacts. The aircraft was in controlled level flight when it struck the trees.

Lady's and Gent's, for $30 bucks an hour if your lucky, you get to have a week of sleepless nights, replaying in your head every detail of the maintenance you did. This profession has a disproportionate amount of responsibility versus pay.

Plumbers,electrician, heavy equipment mechanics, auto mechanics, elevator techs, pretty much every trade I can think of makes at least $30 an hour. None of these have to suffer on midnights, risk getting the shit sued out of them by the insurance company's.

Before all you kool aid drinkers tell me to get out, I am out.

[old apprentice]

This is the first time I've read this particular forum and I must say it is eyeopening. For the most part you guys with the years of experience have probably forgotten more than I know about working in the civilian aviation world. I've keenly observed that there are 2 camps when it comes to aviation. The first is no different than what I experienced in the airforce in that there are always chronic complainers no matter how good things are and another part of that is people that complain all the time are most likely a product of their environment. When you get shafted constantly, and deal with crap all the time you become a part of the dysfunctional attitue. Just my opinion. The other camp I see here are those people that have been part of the crap, have accepted it, learned from it and had the courage to stand up or walk away from it in pursuit of something better. Both camps have their merit. As a newbie to the "civilian" side of the house I have to say that unless I really looked hard at what is being said here I would be pretty discouraged in continuing to find my niche in the aviation industry. Again, I feel those that complain are justified in a way by the way they were/are treated but I don't condone negativety in the workplace. I would suggest using some of the energy to make a positive difference. If that can't be accomplished in a particular situation then have the courage to move on. I had it great in the airforce living in that utopian bubble of not worrying about getting canned because profits were down this or that quarter, not having to go out and spend thousands of dollars on tools, living feast or famine, etc. Now that my eyes are starting to open I am beginnig to realise that the real world is not such a warm and fuzziy place. I do have a couple things going for me that I feel are going to make it tolerable for me though. I am more mature and I know I have the right to walk away from something that is not right. I have been on EI since October and the few jobs I had before that were in min wage jobs but I keep working towards getting back into aviation. Either I'm a sucker or perhaps it's my love of anything aviation that keeps me pushing even when I get beat down like a dog. I'll get off my soapbox now. Cheers.

[Stumper]

Where is the third amigo? I see Stumpy and BRV making the usual "how sh*tty the industry is" comment here but where is Pat?

So Stumpy, why are you in this industry if the pay is so bad? Have you tried to do something else and failed at it or just lacking the confidence to try?

As posted in another thread:

Troubleshot--Are you still in aviation or have you followed your younger brother's path and gone into IT if the money is better and less headaches?

To Pat and Stumper--Again, I have asked you this before and still haven't gotten an answer, if it is so bad in aviation why are you still in it?

If you read my posts you'll see they are not directed at those already in the industry; I respond to those thinking about getting in. I try to give an actuate picture of our industry and I have no problem calling out bullshit when I see it. I have tried to give the newbies the straight goods before they invest a lot of time and money into a job that isn't as it appears. If I've spouted any bs by all means feel free to call me on it. If I come off as negative it's because I call it like it is (and people who work for free piss me off).

Why am I still in it?

My professional situation is tolerable at the moment; I am in a relatively good place ( "above industry standard" in pay and working conditions). My personal situation makes it very difficult to retrain or start over again in something new. That said I absolutely will not give this industry any more then I already have; if I go through another bankruptcy, layoff or any other hiccup I am gone. It took me an inappropriate amount of time, hard work, personal sacrifice (which with the wisdom of age I now very deeply regret), and luck to get to where I am in this industry. Most of the kids asking for advice on spending years and thousands on pursuing this career will never even land their first job let alone get where I am.

And in all honesty, with the direction this trade is headed, if by chance they do finally make it to where I am whats gonna be left here for them? Call me negative all you want but I'm just trying to keep kids and newbies from making a mistake by providing honest non mouth foaming info on the trade...

[palebird]

$85 an hour huh..must be some kind of wizard..actually I really kind of doubt it, I call bs.. and as far as working for free go for it, maybe some day you will wake up and realize it was not a dream..