3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

[photofly]

They already sued the hospital, and their case was thrown out.

The judge’s comments about the case’s lack of merit were quite pithy.

[altiplano]

Too bad for these 270,000+ Canadians... I bet they would do it differently in hindsight. It's nice to know what policies surrounding vaccines will be before you move forward. Turns out rushing to get the first dose you could and mixing vaccines wasn't such a good idea... at least if you were hoping to go to Europe.

Narcity Canada: Canadians Who Received Covishield May Be Ineligible For EU Travel.
https://www.narcity.com/covishield-vacc ... -eu-travel

What does this mean for Canadians who got Covishield?
If and when Europe's travel pass is extended to international travellers, Canadians who received at least one dose of the Covishield COVID-19 vaccine may find it harder to travel to some countries because the existing passport plan doesn't recognize Covishield.

That’s really your best shot (no pun intended ha ha ha) for refusing a vaccine?

That's but one of many I have detailed. I've said it before, policy surrounding vaccines isn't established, and people like your won't acknowledge it.

Personally I think if you're going to have vaccine passports it should only be people that were vaccinated to manufacture specified dosing parameters. Pfizer second shot at 21 days, Moderna second shot at 28 days.

There is no peer reviewed recommendation for mixed vaccines or 12 week dosing schedules. That's not vaccinated to manufacturers spec. So really most "fully vaccinated Canadians" aren't really "fully vaccinated." Good thing Junior ordered extra because everyone is probably going to have to get it again to meet the requirements of other jurisdictions.

[photofly]

That's but one of many I have detailed. I've said it before, policy surrounding vaccines isn't established, and people like your won't acknowledge it.

For the umpteen millionth time: I acknowledge that policy surrounding vaccines changes in line with present understandings of risks. It's merely that you want to believe people like me don't actually understand these things, so you don't listen when we say so.

The problem is people who enjoy believing that vaccines aren't assessed for safety, that there's some great global conspiracy to inject microchips, and that BIll Gates is the root of all our problems. You're welcome to throw your lot in with them, if you want.

Good thing Junior ordered extra because everyone is probably going to have to get it again to meet the requirements of other jurisdictions.

Great. Let's do that. The sooner the better.

[confuzed]

I said those who do get vaccinated get to choose what restrictions are placed on people who choose not to be vaccinated. Not out of spite, but in order to prevent their selfish attitudes delaying a return to whatever normality those who do choose to be vaccinated can hope for. If restrictions are deemed to be necessary, then I will absolutely support them. My personal wishes don’t enter into it.

You sound like the guy operating the gas chamber justifying it.

I supported ruining those people's lives because they were against the narrative the majority followed. It's not ME it's them, and it's what everyone wanted, and we had to prevent them from bringing down our society.

People like you are what's wrong in this world.

Couldn’t agree more, the arrogance of this dude is beyond mind numbing. Scroll through every post he has made on this site and you can see it plain as day. There is no point to even speaking with him, it’s literally like beating your head against a brick wall.

I find with his type (there are many on this site) to just smile and wave. It is one thing to spout your opinion, but to look down on people with differing opinions regardless of what they are is brutal. If people think that by getting vaccinated we will be back to normal, they are clearly delusional. “Normal” is a thing of the past.

[photofly]

\t to look down on people with differing opinions regardless of what they are is brutal.

So, you're looking down on my opinion, then, aren't you?

But in fact it's not "regardless of what they are": there's only a very specific subset of opinions that I look down on. Specifically, that not getting a vaccine is a good choice. Regardless, I will fight for your right to make that choice.

[altiplano]

That's but one of many I have detailed. I've said it before, policy surrounding vaccines isn't established, and people like your won't acknowledge it.

For the umpteen millionth time: I acknowledge that policy surrounding vaccines changes in line with present understandings of risks. It's merely that you want to believe people like me don't actually understand these things, so you don't listen when we say so.

The problem is people who enjoy believing that vaccines aren't assessed for safety, that there's some great global conspiracy to inject microchips, and that BIll Gates is the root of all our problems. You're welcome to throw your lot in with them, if you want.

No. You haven't acknowledged that. You haven't acknowledged that a reasoned approach waiting until the government gets their act together is reasonable. And that the risk of waiting is in fact very low.

Now you're drawing the faulty parallel, infering it as synonymous to a global conspiracy idea.

Good thing Junior ordered extra because everyone is probably going to have to get it again to meet the requirements of other jurisdictions.

Great. Let's do that. The sooner the better.

Yeah, the sooner we know the policies surrounding this the better. The sooner the government is able to assure people vaccination dosing to specification the better. The sooner we can get full approvals for these vaccines the better. And that's not happening right now, and there's no horizon visible for when we might see these things.

I'm not so sure everyone will be so happy when they're told to go through it all again or they'll lose their rights...

[photofly]

No. You haven't acknowledged that. You haven't acknowledged that a reasoned approach waiting until the government gets their act together is reasonable. And that the risk of waiting is in fact very low.

I acknowledge that policy around vaccines changes somewhat according to present understanding of risk.

The risk of waiting is in fact very low. But the risk of the vaccine is even lower. Meanwhile by waiting you are not providing the benefit of a high level of vaccination to everyone else. By waiting, you raise the risk to everyone else. While enough people wait, the infection rate and the risk to everyone else is substantially higher than it needs to be.

I absolutely refuse to acknowledge that it's a reasoned approach to refuse to get a vaccine at all until your arbitrary metric of "the government getting their act together" is met - because I don't think it's a reasoned approach at all. I think it's merely an excuse used by the cowardly and the lazy and the selfish to freeload the benefit of vaccines from those who do follow reasonable advice.

You can't have, and won't ever have - absolute certainty about vaccines. Clinical trials established their effectiveness, and what is reasonable is to accept that, and act on it.

[CpnCrunch]

There is no peer reviewed recommendation for mixed vaccines or 12 week dosing schedules. That's not vaccinated to manufacturers spec. So really most "fully vaccinated Canadians" aren't really "fully vaccinated." Good thing Junior ordered extra because everyone is probably going to have to get it again to meet the requirements of other jurisdictions.

You mean a peer-reviewed journal like the Lancet?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723445/

They found that efficacy of Pfizer was greater if the delay between doses was more than 6 weeks.

I see you are complaining a lot in another thread that you're not getting enough overtime because some other pilots are getting all the OT. Oh, woe is me. You complain you're not flying, but you're actively sabotaging your own industry. Sorry you're earning a bit less than your usual 300k this year but I don't really have much sympathy for AC pilots any more.

[altiplano]

There is no peer reviewed recommendation for mixed vaccines or 12 week dosing schedules. That's not vaccinated to manufacturers spec. So really most "fully vaccinated Canadians" aren't really "fully vaccinated." Good thing Junior ordered extra because everyone is probably going to have to get it again to meet the requirements of other jurisdictions.

You mean a peer-reviewed journal like the Lancet?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7723445/

They found that efficacy of Pfizer was greater if the delay between doses was more than 6 weeks.

I see you are complaining a lot in another thread that you're not getting enough overtime because some other pilots are getting all the OT. Oh, woe is me. You complain you're not flying, but you're actively sabotaging your own industry. Sorry you're earning a bit less than your usual 300k this year but I don't really have much sympathy for AC pilots any more.

I have never complained that I wasn't getting enough OT, I don't think anyone should be accepting OT. Get your facts straight.

The study you have linked to there has nothing to do with delaying Pfizer doses. That study is a clinical trial done last year for the efficacy of AstraZeneca... not a recommendation to mix vaccines or extend timelines between doses for all the vaccines. I think I know the article you are referring to, I'll let you find it and read it and see what actually happened in that study... or if you just placed the wrong link, please do repost the correct one.

I have been nothing but fair explaining my perspective to you, and you have misrepresented things as fact, when in fact it is political. You really take this personal... and you seem to like to bring my personal things into it which I think really speaks to your lack of character, lack of an argument, and lack respect for others who don't share your view.

Enjoy the rest of your pandemic.

[photofly]

You do realize that there’s not a lot of integrity quibbling about timings and manufacturers of a second vaccine dose if you’re someone who refuses to have a first vaccine dose, don’t you?

[FL320]

You do realize that there’s not a lot of integrity quibbling about timings and manufacturers of a second vaccine dose if you’re someone who refuses to have a first vaccine dose, don’t you?

Do you realize that this shit show does not bring confidence in getting that first dose? In Canada it’s been handled like a big mess; they just want a jab in every arms no matter what; it does not matter if it’s AZ, or Cocaine or weed or a mix of everything. Does not matter what happen to you next; they will deal with it later..

[photofly]

Do you realize that this shit show does not bring confidence in getting that first dose? In Canada it’s been handled like a big mess; they just want a jab in every arms no matter what; it does not matter if it’s AZ, or Cocaine or weed or a mix of everything. Does not matter what happen to you next; they will deal with it later..

I don’t agree it’s a shit show or a big mess. I think the rapid development and deployment of, what, a dozen different COVID vaccines in about 12 months is a pinnacle of human achievement.

[altiplano]

You do realize that there’s not a lot of integrity quibbling about timings and manufacturers of a second vaccine dose if you’re someone who refuses to have a first vaccine dose, don’t you?

Pretty weak argument...

I lack integrity because if I choose to start a procedure I want to be sure it can be carried out properly as directed? And be recognized as such by the various jurisdictions?

That's like blasting off without a weather report and a sketchy alternate because someone else really wants the flight to go. No thanks, I safe on the ground waiting to get all the info and facts in sight.

Anyway, as fun as it's been, photo and Cpn... I'm going to leave it at that with you, I've explained at length my point of view and you can't understand it... you're happy with your choice, I'm happy with mine.

Enjoy the rest of your pandemic.

[photofly]

I lack integrity because if I choose to start a procedure I want to be sure it can be carried out properly as directed? And be recognized as such by the various jurisdictions? .

There’s no doubt that two doses of vaccine at more or less any appropriate time interval provides very good protection against COVID-19. And if you don’t want to have vaccines from two different manufacturers you can choose two from the same manufacturer. You know both of these facts very clearly.

To use artificial quibbles about the timing, or the recognition, or other details as an excuse to refuse a vaccination entirely does lack integrity, yes.

If you’re anti vaccination for ideological looney-tunes reasons, then say so. If not, get a vaccine.

[altiplano]

I lack integrity because if I choose to start a procedure I want to be sure it can be carried out properly as directed? And be recognized as such by the various jurisdictions? .

There’s no doubt that two doses of vaccine at more or less any appropriate time interval provides very good protection against COVID-19. And if you don’t want to have vaccines from two different manufacturers you can choose two from the same manufacturer. You know both of these facts very clearly.

To use artificial quibbles about the timing, or the recognition, or other details as an excuse to refuse a vaccination entirely does lack integrity, yes.

If you’re anti vaccination for ideological looney-tunes reasons, then say so. If not, get a vaccine.

Enjoy your pandemic.

[CpnCrunch]

The study you have linked to there has nothing to do with delaying Pfizer doses. That study is a clinical trial done last year for the efficacy of AstraZeneca... not a recommendation to mix vaccines or extend timelines between doses for all the vaccines. I think I know the article you are referring to, I'll let you find it and read it and see what actually happened in that study... or if you just placed the wrong link, please do repost the correct one.

Yes, you're right, it is AZ, I didn't read the referring BMJ article carefully enough. There is only a preprint showing the effect of delaying doses for Pfizer:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21257017v1

While it's not yet peer reviewed, one of the authors is "National infection Service, Public Health England", so it's a pretty reputable source.

[CpnCrunch]

Do you realize that this shit show does not bring confidence in getting that first dose? In Canada it’s been handled like a big mess; they just want a jab in every arms no matter what; it does not matter if it’s AZ, or Cocaine or weed or a mix of everything. Does not matter what happen to you next; they will deal with it later..

Here is the rationale between mixing doses:

https://www.cmaj.ca/content/193/25/E967

[RedAndWhiteBaron]

You call challenging what are clearly fascist ideas that seek to place one class above another class based on what are private and personal decisions an attack and personal insult? Hardly.

No, but calling people batshit crazy because they disagree with you is.

[altiplano]

You call challenging what are clearly fascist ideas that seek to place one class above another class based on what are private and personal decisions an attack and personal insult? Hardly.

No, but calling people batshit crazy because they disagree with you is.

Lighten up Francis It wasn't because they disagreed with me. It was because they were supporting fascist authoritarian ideals.

[altiplano]

The study you have linked to there has nothing to do with delaying Pfizer doses. That study is a clinical trial done last year for the efficacy of AstraZeneca... not a recommendation to mix vaccines or extend timelines between doses for all the vaccines. I think I know the article you are referring to, I'll let you find it and read it and see what actually happened in that study... or if you just placed the wrong link, please do repost the correct one.

Yes, you're right, it is AZ, I didn't read the referring BMJ article carefully enough. There is only a preprint showing the effect of delaying doses for Pfizer:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21257017v1

While it's not yet peer reviewed, one of the authors is "National infection Service, Public Health England", so it's a pretty reputable source.

Last comment, for clarity. It was not a study on delaying AZ doses or mixing doses, it was an initial clinical trial on the efficacy of AZ as a vaccine for Covid.

So my comment stands. Manufacturer specifications are not being adhered to when the Canadian government tells us 12 weeks, one of these, and one of those.

[photofly]

You call challenging what are clearly fascist ideas that seek to place one class above another class based on what are private and personal decisions an attack and personal insult? Hardly.

You might think decisions about vaccination are entirely private and personal. But we’re not talking about what ice cream you prefer. En-masse vaccination decisions have enormous implications for public health. That means your decision affects the health of everyone around you. Including me. That gives me cause to take an opinion on your decision.

The only thing that’s actually right of centre in what wrote is to agree you have the freedom of choice. Everything else is almost socialist.

[montado]

You keep going on with your rhetoric and refuse to answer why you don’t take the flu shot when I posted a link that it was stated that 61k lives could be saved in America if 40 percent of people took a flu shot that was only 20 percent effective.

So maybe screw off with your hypocrisy nonsense. How many idiotic posts are you going to make. No one cares… even if you are right, you still don’t even practice what you preach so you are very unlikely to change someone’s mind.

The flu vaccine has been around longer, it’s widely available, has low risks and it saves lives. And you won’t take it. So @#$! off already you are like some sort of cult leader. I’m beginning to think you didn’t even get vaccinated yourself with the covid shot. Seems like a likely scenario from someone who won’t take a flu vaccine.

This is like leadership 101. Stop telling others what they should do, and set a good example by doing things yourself.

['97 Tercel]

Doesn't matter because these vaccines are not as life-changing as many thought.

Fully vaccinated? Great stuff, Skippy...you can still: get the virus, and pass the virus on, get sick from the virus, and die from the virus.

But don't fret because some of the current symptoms of the Delta Variant (wasn't Steven Segal in that one?) include....

- sore throat
- runny nose
and some reports of (thankfully only a few).....sneezing.

[photofly]

You keep going on with your rhetoric and refuse to answer why you don’t take the flu shot when I posted a link that it was stated that 61k lives could be saved in America if 40 percent of people took a flu shot that was only 20 percent effective.

So maybe screw off with your hypocrisy nonsense. How many idiotic posts are you going to make. No one cares… even if you are right, you still don’t even practice what you preach so you are very unlikely to change someone’s mind.

The flu vaccine has been around longer, it’s widely available, has low risks and it saves lives. And you won’t take it. So @#$! off already you are like some sort of cult leader. I’m beginning to think you didn’t even get vaccinated yourself with the covid shot. Seems like a likely scenario from someone who won’t take a flu vaccine.

This is like leadership 101. Stop telling others what they should do, and set a good example by doing things yourself.

I do take the flu shot.

I got the first COVID-19 vaccine the day I was offered it. And I should be getting my second COVID shot in a week or two, according to availability.

I think you wrote you chose to get a vaccination. I think the other people arguing against it in this thread probably chose to as well, but like arguing a point of principle.

Vaccines are important and save lives. Everyone has the right to go without a COVID-19 vaccine. But there may be consequences. In Europe travel is easier if you can show you’ve been vaccinated, and as discussed in the US some employers are requiring it to continue employment. I think that will become much more widespread. I guarantee you that the people making those decisions have been vaccinated, too. So this is already in motion:

And that’s why I think those of us who do take the risk of being vaccinated, get to choose what restrictions are placed on those who refuse. Including in terms of what jobs they can hold, where they can travel, and what restrictions are placed on them when they get there. That’s 100% ok with me.

I don’t see why it’s contentious, “elitist”, or “fascist”. It’s just sensible.

[CpnCrunch]

Just more lame-ass comments as usual....

Covid has 10x the number of deaths as the flu, and the vaccine gives about 98% protection against covid delta variant in real-life data (from today's update from Israel).