Air France 447 Reported Missing

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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Ogee »

canwhitewolf wrote:Air France pilots battled for 15 minutes to save doomed flight AF 447


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... F-447.html

quote
"Suddenly we saw in the distance a strong and intense flash of white light, followed by a downward, vertical trajectory which broke up into six segments," the chief pilot of an Air Comet plane from Lima to Madrid told the Spanish newspaper, El Pais. He has reported his observations to investigators"
Well spotted, WhiteWolf. Was just about to check the English papers myself. The only print publication I trust in Canada is Frank and now they're gone I have to go overseas.

That is by far the most significant information presented up to now.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Widow »

MrWings wrote:If you're thinking the system should be changed and an aircraft should be launched immediately on an ACARS report, well, you would have a lot of unneccesary aircraft in the air at a lot of cost. Would it be worth it to save even one life? Well, you can't put a price on a life but can bet the flying public won't want to see their airfares increased.
How would an unneeded SAR callout result in increased airfares? I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before and operators are not charged for unnecessary callout. Cost may be reflected in public taxes, but not in airfares.

And, again, I'm not suggesting that SAR be called due to ACARs transmissions alone, but if the sequence of events reported is correct (manual notification of entering weather cell at 02.00Z, flurry of critical ACARs from 02.10Z to 02.14Z, followed by the lack of expected call at 02.20Z), and if one centralized location knew of all these events concurrently, then IMHO that would warrant an immediate SAR callout - as if there had been an ELT ping or mayday transmission. Maybe it was - that is why I asked in the first place. It does seem that three hours would have made no difference in this case, but that does not mean it couldn't make a difference in the future.

With respect to the pilot who thinks he/she may have seen the occurrence - if you were a pilot and had seen something like that, would you report it immediately? This question is just a question, and not meant to be a reflection on said pilot's credibility.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by BTD »

It seems that some people believe that ATC receives the ACARS messages and could correlate it with an overdue position report. It is likely that ATC did not know about the ACARS messages when they began their radio search for the aircraft. It is also likely that the Air France mtc dep did not know the same time ATC did of an overdue position report.

Even so, as an example, if your child didn't show up at home after school, chances are you would go through a similar process that the SAR/ATC go through. You probably wouldn't call the police and the media right away, especially if your child has done this before. You would probably start by calling your child's friends to see if he/she is at their house. Then the school, then go out and look for them. Then probably after some amount of time 45 min-1 hr maybe you would start calling the police etc.

To me, the reponse seemed appropriate. If we even know the full extent of what was done. Which we didn't.

As to the post a few back about having someone standing by to control the airplane if there was pilot incapacitation and having a ground support equivilant to that of the Apollo program. Good luck with that.

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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by ex-NWT »

Widow wrote: And, again, I'm not suggesting that SAR be called due to ACARs transmissions alone, but if the sequence of events reported is correct (manual notification of entering weather cell at 02.00Z, flurry of critical ACARs from 02.10Z to 02.14Z, followed by the lack of expected call at 02.20Z), and if one centralized location knew of all these events concurrently, then IMHO that would warrant an immediate SAR callout

I think we are mixing a few things.
The aircraft on the tracks are usually in touch with ATC with CPDLC (ADS-C) (or HF radio for stone age aircraft :) )
Company monitors A/C parameters via ACARS

To launch a search because of acars.....doubt it, company will try to call first.

We got a call going into Miami on the satcom, maintenance asking us if we noticed any vibration?
We had an eng. vibration (indication) and they saw it before we did.

We also communicate with dispatch via acars. It's like texting.
Over land it sends via VHF and in the middle of nowhere via satellite.

CPDLC (ADS-C) is 2 way communication via datalink with ATC (maybe to be replaced by ADS-B, only available for now only in the Huson Bay area.)

Everything is dependant on satcom, which does cut in and out, which is why the selcall checks are done on HF.
When a reporting pt is passed with satcom out, an a/c reverts to HF which can be interesting sometimes. Quite a few times it is totally unreadable.
In that case sometimes a relay is asked/done by other a/c in touch with ATC, but it is quite possible to fly for a long time with no contact with ATC.

The point being:
To dispatch SAR with a loss of contact with an A/C would be a bit of waste of time since contact is lost quite regularly which is not totally strange.
I have had calls from ATC because of missing position reports, no contact and such.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACARS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADS-B
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CPDLC

I have no idea what caused this fatal crash, but I hope information is recovered soon so we can learn and hopefully prevent anything this sad and drastic from happening again.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Cat Driver »

In that case sometimes a relay is asked/done by other a/c in touch with ATC, but it is quite possible to fly for a long time with no contact with ATC.
In many parts of Africa being in contact with ATC is an event to be marveled at. :mrgreen:

The reason I mention this is there are a lot of airplanes buzzing around Africa with little or no contact with ATC.

As so often related here HF can be very unreliable.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by rigpiggy »

Letès see sy is working on this system, and trying to sell it. If the AFCS doesèt work, why would this
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Widow »

BTD wrote:It seems that some people believe that ATC receives the ACARS messages and could correlate it with an overdue position report
Who believes that? I asked questions in an effort to understand the process. One question was –whether or not a series of critical ACARs messages would have alerted someone to a potential emergency? If so, what would the follow-up be? If not, don’t you think it should? I’m trying to talk about putting all potentially critical information in one place to speed up the initiation of SAR activity in certain circumstances. I don’t need to be continually told that “ACARS alone won’t set off SAR”, that “lack of call-in to ATC alone won’t set off SAR” or that “lack of ability to make comm. contact alone won’t set off SAR”. I know those things.

Using your example of my missing child – while dropping my pink-clad daughter off after lunch, another parent mentions they saw a creepy guy hanging out near the tunnel on the walk to school (known weather). At 2pm, daughter texts and confirms she's on her way home and near the tunnel (pilot manually reports entering weather cell). Fifteen minutes later somebody calls and says they’ve been hearing talk in the neighbourhood that a man grabbed a screaming child in pink near the tunnel and pulled her into a van (could be rumour like the ACARS could be errors but important enough to set off alarm bells – i.e. follow-up to critical ACARS alert). Five minutes later, my kid doesn’t get home as expected (no call-in). I try calling her cell a few times and she doesn’t answer, though I know she has to walk through a tunnel where her cell does not work (no comm response).

None of these things alone would cause me to call the cops right away, but all of them together sure as hell would.

So, is there a system by which all this potentially critical information is compiled in one place so that decisions can be based on as much knowledge as possible? If not, is there a way that they could be??
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by canwhitewolf »

Questions Surround Downed Jet

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/world ... ne.html?hp

William R. Voss, president of the Flight Safety Foundation in Alexandria, Va, said in a telephone interview Thursday that the pattern of debris could indicate an in-flight break-up. Big debris that floats, Mr. Voss said, is generally not a flat sheet of aluminum, like part of the fuselage, but a more box-like structure, often the tail, and the tail often comes off first.

edit

the reason i am curious about this part is because of the information I cannot find -about the effect of lightning on carbon fibre and composites, in a metal plane lightning may punch a hole in the plane but perhaps in carbon fibre it may melt and weaken a structure under certain extreme conditions... in fact as i mentioned prevously there was a program on television that adddresed this very issue, dont know if it was mayday or discovery channel of some other flight program but i do remeber something about it, unfortunately i cannot find info on it, (or perhaps I am mistaken)

im sure they went ahead and solved the problem, or these composites wouldnt be now used as prevelantly as they are

but at the time there was a problem of some sort related to CF and lightning they were researching , and i think it was the tailplane in that particular article

carbon likes electricity
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by canwhitewolf »

dltd
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Widow »

http://blastmagazine.com/the-news/world ... g-reports/
A report in France’s Le Monde newspaper suggests yet another possibility, that the pilots were not flying the correct speed while navigating through the intense storm. Airbus had recently sent out recommendations to pilots of A330 jets with new advice on how to traverse bad weather conditions. The pilots may not have followed this advice.
While experts were speculating, the first Brazilian ship arrived on the crash site. Planes still circling the area say they found more, larger debris, but have yet to see any bodies or remains. All 228 passengers and crew are believed to be dead.

The 23-foot piece of plane that was discovered yesterday is believed to be part of the fuselage or tail, BBC reports. CNN reports that because of the distance between debris findings, the search area has been widened to 300 miles.

Officials are still not optimistic that the recorders, which could be buried more than a couple miles below water, will ever be found. Their beacons can only transmit signals for 30 days.

Deep water submarines - key to the discovery and recovery of the black boxes - are not expected at the suspected crash site until next week.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by MrWings »

Widow wrote:None of these things alone would cause me to call the cops right away, but all of them together sure as hell would.
And the cops would say, "Five minutes late? Ma'am, she probably just stopped off at her friends. We get this ALL THE TIME. Kids get distracted and side-tracked easily.

And we don't have any reports of a child being taken away screaming. Did they call the police?

We don't have a car in the area right now but we are taking this seriously. In the mean time, I suggest calling her friends' houses. That's probably where she is. And keep trying to call her.

We'll get back to you shortly. If you hear nothing in the next few minutes we'll have to look at a search or an Amber Alert."
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Widow »

Except that in my scenario the "talk in the neighbourhood that a man grabbed a screaming child in pink near the tunnel and pulled her into a van" would have resulted in a call to the cops in the same way I'm suggesting that the ACARS messages could have set off an alert.

I've said the same thing so many times in so many ways, I'm going to shut up about it now. I'm sure you'll all be very glad to hear that :smt040
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

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I've said the same thing so many times in so many ways, I'm going to shut up about it now. I'm sure you'll all be very glad to hear that
Not at all widow. You have contributed much to this site. Regardless, a good healthy debate is the best way to change things. (not that avcanada will affect the greater aviation world, but anyway)
Why would they have waited until 3 hrs after expected check in to launch a search?
Your above question is what people have been trying to answer when responding to you. Why wasn't the search intiated until 3 hrs in. Well it was most likely initiated well before that by attempting to establish radio contact through ATC. We just don't hear about that part.
Could that be right? If someone somewhere was alerted to the critical system failures between 02:10Z and 02:14Z and they didn't check in as expected at 02:20Z ... why was it another three hours before a search was launched? Or was one launched by some entitity prior to the Brazilian air force?
Your arguement seems to be that all the information of the ACARS/Weather/overdue reporting point should have been available to one agency at one time so they could determine a that something "big" might have happened.

What the other posters have said is the reality. The maint department at Air France is "monitoring" the ACARS messages. They know nothing of the weather on route or the overdue reporting time. Also the detail of those ACARS we don't know yet. If they had been along the lines of, "we are crashing help us", then sure they would probably contact someone. As far as we know, if I recall correctly, there was one about an electrical malfunction, and one about a cabin vertical speed. Very grey and not likely to immediately cause someone to pick up the phone and call ATC to see if the aircraft is overdue.

The weather was known to the crew (may not have even been a factor we don't know yet) but perhaps not ATC, even if ATC did know about the weather it is possible they deduced the delayed report in due to deviations around weather etc.

ATC is not monitoring the ACARS. All they know is that an aircraft didn't report in on time (as apparently is quite common on these routes). After a brief waiting period they begin to intiate a search via communications as is the procedure.

All these bodies are independent and observing from different vantage points. We have the benefit of hindsight to see that all of them added together. These agencies did not. That is the system and it worked the way it was supposed too.

Having said that there is always a way to improve the system. But it sounds like what you are implying is that there should be one single agency that monitors Weather/ATC overdue/ACARS all at one station to make sure everything adds up. You may also be suggesting that if there is a malfuntion of a system, the maintenace department immediately calls ATC or visa versa. In which case there would be a fury of phone calls every day the likes of which nobody has ever seen. As "stuff" breaks on airplanes all the time.

Launching the SAR aircraft for a mission is one of the last steps in a search process that has started long before.

As to my loose example of a child being kidnapped:
another parent mentions they saw a creepy guy hanging out near the tunnel on the walk to school (known weather)
This parallel is not accurate. Known severe weather exists all the time when flying. If the above were the case. There would be a creepy guy on every other corner and for the last X amount of years your daughter would have come home everyday without a problem. The creepy guy then just becomes the norm and you think nothing of him.
At 2pm, daughter texts and confirms she's on her way home and near the tunnel (pilot manually reports entering weather cell)
Did the pilot report entering a weather cell? I hadn't read that.
Fifteen minutes later somebody calls and says they’ve been hearing talk in the neighbourhood that a man grabbed a screaming child in pink near the tunnel and pulled her into a van (could be rumour like the ACARS could be errors but important enough to set off alarm bells – i.e. follow-up to critical ACARS alert)
If the ACARS message had said. "Total Electrical failure unable normal navigation/controlled flight lost" Or "Airplane blew up" then that is a rumour on the level of the child kicking and screaming being taken away. As far as I know the ACARS message reported a high rate of change of cabin pressure and an electrical problem. If there is more to the ACARS message on this point then this point could be moot.
Five minutes later, my kid doesn’t get home as expected (no call-in). I try calling her cell a few times and she doesn’t answer, though I know she has to walk through a tunnel where her cell does not work (no comm response).
I think that is an appropriate comparison.

Sorry for the long winded response. I hope I clarified my position and possibly the position of some others on the board. I'm all for improving the system, but I don't think that this is the right angle to approach it from.

If you have any criticisms or points to make, I'm glad to hear them. :D

BTD
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by goldeneagle »

sylevine wrote: They fought against even having flight recorders. This madness has to stop for good of the travelling public and national security.
If you are going to show up with such drivel, trying to push your 'patented' system, you should at least get the facts strait.

The airlines never fought having recorders, and some of them actually pushed hard for the implementation of recorders as mandatory. The pilots unions fought this tooth and nail, right up until the inevitable happened, and they realized it couldn't be fought anymore. At that point, they switched tactics, and fought to have regulations in place preventing an airline from arbitrarily extracting the data in the recorders, and using that to monitor the performance of the flight crews.

As time went on, those of us actually working on the technology for the recorders came up with lots of fancy new implementations, and eventually the big analog steel tape box was replaced with a small little bit of solid state equipment, altho most are still deployed in the same old large orange container, simply because that container is already certified for the crash resistant requirements. Eventually the concept of using that same data stream for maintanence analysis came into play, but those pesky rules about arbitrarily downloading data from the recorders got in the way, so, the QAR was invented. The quality assurance recorder is essentially the same hardware as the flight data recorder, but it's not packaged in crash resistant packaging. It is 'owned' by the maintanence department and the data is downloaded regularily. In the case of some airlines, this means weekly, and some airlines actually automate the process and download the qar data after every leg. Qar data is used to monitor a lot of parameters, in most cases a lot more than the actual fdr, and in particular things like exceedances generate alerts in the maintanence system(s). Eventually regulatory bodies realized that the data would be great for monitoring the 'quality' of flight operations, and, with large airlines today, that's now the FOQA program, flight operations quality assurance. But, those pesky rules still get in the way.

The last time I did work on FOQA analysis software (that was a couple of years back, I've since transferred to a division that doesn't do civilian aircraft operations), a huge amount of effort went into the compartmentalization of the data, in such a way that flight ops could extract plenty of useful statistics on various items, but, no single event could be linked back to a specific crew, either for remedial training purposes, or any other purpose. You can say it aint so all day long, and as loud as you want, but it wont change the facts. It was the pilots unions that hamstrung the use of recorder data, not the airlines. Most airlines would _love_ to get that data fully unrestricted, but the chinese wall between maintanence and operations will remain in place as long as alpa and it's various different incantations have any say in the matter. It's fully acceptable for maintanence to remove an engine from a specific aircraft, and spend a million bucks on repairs, because a flight crew mis-managed it in flight, but, it's NOT acceptable to link the event back to the specific flight crew, and take them for remedial training. All that is possible, is factor the event into the company wide syllabus, and provide the specific remedial training to everybody on the next simulator cycle.

But once again, as is soooo often the case on the internet, lets not have the actual facts of the matter get in the way of a great propoganda mission promoting a personal agenda now will we. After all, those pesky facts may not help your agenda much....
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by _dwj_ »

Did the pilot report entering a weather cell? I hadn't read that.
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/06/0 ... ch004.html

"The pilot sent a manual signal late Sunday saying he was flying through an area of black, electrically charged cumulonimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning."


CTV says "a message from the pilot sent at 11 p.m. local time indicated the plane was flying through "CBs,"", and the Washington Post says "The last manual message from the pilot of Air France Flight 447 indicated the plane was headed into a storm. "
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by BTD »

I hadn't read that. Thanks. However, flying into an area of storm activity is different from flying into a cell.

Condolences to the families.

BTD
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by canwhitewolf »

Crash investigation looks at sensors

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... wD98K7AT03
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by canwhitewolf »

it just gets stranger

Air France plane: debris 'is not from lost aircraft'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... craft.html
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Widow »

Thank you very much BTD! You’ve been very gracious in your response, and for that I shall break my short-lived silence to respond!

I shall refer to these quotes, which have previously been posted or linked to the thread (this seems to be the same problem that PPrune has had - people respond without having read the whole thread and therefore missing prior questions/input and therefore misunderstandings and annoyance ensue).

Back on page two when I first started wondering about this:
New information provided by sources within Air France suggests, that the ACARS messages of system failures started to arrive at 02:10Z indicating, that the autopilot had disengaged and the fly by wire system had changed to alternate law. Between 02:11Z and 02:13Z a flurry of messages regarding ADIRU and ISIS faults arrived, at 02:13Z PRIM 1 and SEC 1 faults were indicated, at 02:14Z the last message received was an advisory regarding cabin vertical speed. That sequence of messages could not be independently verified. (See full article here: http://avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1&opt=0)
I did ask if anyone could interpret all that, but got no response. I have therefore had to rely on interpretation – such as this one:
Messages give some clues

The missing plane sent a number of electronic messages before disappearing off radar. According to Air France, the plane first sent a message saying it was entering thick black clouds, which are normally associated with lightning and high winds. According to U.S. transportation experts these conditions are not uncommon off the Brazil coast.

Ten minutes later automatic messages were sent indicating that the autopilot had been disengaged and that a main computer on the plane was switched to alternative power, signaling electric failure.

Next, according to the messages, stabilization controls were damaged, the pilots could no longer see information like altitude or even speed (which could corroborate French testimony) and an alarm sounded, indicating the situation was getting much, much worse.

The flurry of messages ended with one indicating a loss of air pressure throughout the A330 and mass electrical failure.
The plane then crashed. (See full article here: http://blastmagazine.com/the-news/world ... g-reports/
Here is more information about the pilot having reported entering a weather cell.
A complete chronology published today by Brazil's O Estado de S. Paulo newspaper, citing an unidentified Air France source said the pilot sent a manual signal at 11 p.m. local time saying he was flying through an area of "CBs" – black, electrically charged cumulo-nimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning. (Read full article here: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/644696)
Am I correct that 11pm local Brazil time is the same as 0200Z?

Those ACARS messages, by that interpretation and most others I’ve read, certainly sound to me “on the level of the child kicking and screaming being taken away”. Doesn’t it to everyone else???

And just because I love argument and I have refuted/shown evidence of the other two arguments to my argument in your example,
Widow wrote:another parent mentions they saw a creepy guy hanging out near the tunnel on the walk to school (known weather)
BTD wrote:This parallel is not accurate. Known severe weather exists all the time when flying. If the above were the case. There would be a creepy guy on every other corner and for the last X amount of years your daughter would have come home everyday without a problem. The creepy guy then just becomes the norm and you think nothing of him.
There are creepy guys on every corner and so if another parent told me they’d seen one hanging around I’d likely take it with a grain of salt until corroborated by other evidence. I might suggest to my daughter that she try to avoid the tunnel area – but just like pilots may become with weather, I might be complacent about a “creepy guy”.

Finally, in reading the posts between yours and my finishing this up:

Apologies for my error is saying “weather cell”. But whatever, that was bad weather they were flying into.

Goldeneagle, this is not the first time I’d read that the airlines had fought against flight recorders – Ill see if I can find anything on the web.

And canwhitewolf, I think if you review the articles, you’ll find that the debris picked up yesterday was by a non-navy vessel and was confirmed to be from AF447. The debris referred to in the article you’ve just posted is that from the second debris field first approached by the navy today. That may be positive, as it may mean there is only the one debris field and thus reduce the search area.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by canwhitewolf »

Air France jet's flight-control system under scrutiny

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 1218.story

The automated messages then indicate that a fault occurred in one of the computers for the major control surfaces on the rear of the plane. Such a failure would have compounded the problems, particularly if the pilots were flying through even moderate turbulence.

The last message indicates that multiple failures were occurring, including pressurization of the cabin. Such a message would have reflected either a loss of the plane's pressurization equipment or a breach of the fuselage, resulting in rapid decompression.
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Flying Nutcracker »

You know... I am not going to name any names... but... while you guys are arguing about wether or not the kid was crying or what parallels are apropriate to acars messages in question... there are actually people looking into all the facts that we don't have.

I am truly saddened by this accident, yet impressed by the quick response and discovery of the wreckage area (assuming that it is actually pieces from the A330 they've found). To me this indicates that the system of today works really well. If it had been a successful ditching with survivors in rafts, I am convinced that the system response to an accident like this would have saved lives. Unfortunately, the nature of this accident does not appear to have left any survivors to be found.

Taking it one step further... I am not sure any system could prevent loss of life, but some would definately be saved. We are talking huge waters and a huge variety of scenarioes to deal with. To me that is just reality.

Widow, as much as I appreciate your quest for increased safety and improvements of system responses, it seems you are fixated on deficiencies that to me seem natural due to the area of operation we are talking about. The only way you are going to have immediate response over water is to have ships with people stationed strategically across the Atlantic and any other ocean where ETOPS is taking place. With so much water to cover I think to have any quicker response to an accident like this is next to impossible.

Another thing is that probably half of oceanic flights are conducted at night. Darkness does not help SAR efforts a whole lot, thus risking a delayed response. Weather is also a consideration, especially the tropical weather with the thunderstorms and tropical storms. These are perhaps things that SAR will look at before launching.

The question relating to the ACARS messages and the time it took to initiate SAR, will be addressed, I am sure, once all the facts are analysed.

The bigger question to me is what really happened to the airplane? It worries me a great deal to see something like this happen, and I can't wait to see the report... even the preliminary report!

My sincere condolenses to all involved.

FN
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Prairie Chicken
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by Prairie Chicken »

Launching the SAR aircraft for a mission is one of the last steps in a search process that has started long before.
I'll keep my comments short, and am seconding this quote whole heartedly.

I too feel for all those personally touched by this trajedy, and anxiously await some indication of what occurred over that stormy sea. I do have faith that the marine resources will be able to retrieve the boxes, or at least one.

I believe the SAR response here was realistic, and the investigation efficient.
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Last edited by Prairie Chicken on Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Prairie Chicken
YHZChick
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by YHZChick »

Widow wrote: Back on page two when I first started wondering about this:
New information provided by sources within Air France suggests, that the ACARS messages of system failures started to arrive at 02:10Z indicating, that the autopilot had disengaged and the fly by wire system had changed to alternate law. Between 02:11Z and 02:13Z a flurry of messages regarding ADIRU and ISIS faults arrived, at 02:13Z PRIM 1 and SEC 1 faults were indicated, at 02:14Z the last message received was an advisory regarding cabin vertical speed. That sequence of messages could not be independently verified. (See full article here: http://avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1&opt=0)
I did ask if anyone could interpret all that, but got no response.
Is this what you wanted to know?
(quote from a friend who drives a Scarebus)
(Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:56:01 -0400)

ADIRU - Air Data inertial reference unit. thing tells you your position spatially and over the earth.

ISIS - integrated standby instrument system. Back ups. Also the god of motherhood in ancient egyptian mythology... might have been praying for his mother.

SEC - spoiler elevator computer

PRIM1 - the number 1 flight control primary computer...

None of this you want to loose, then they loose cabin pressure... sounds like the thing was breaking up.
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YHZChick
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by YHZChick »

French media have a copy of the ACARS transmissions, and they have been transcribed and posted at PPRuNe.

This won't mean much to most of you/us, but there is a good discussion going on to interpret them there, and I'm sharing them here for the handful of people who will be able to make sense of it...
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cyxe
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Re: Air France 447 Reported Missing

Post by cyxe »

Widow wrote:And canwhitewolf, I think if you review the articles, you’ll find that the debris picked up yesterday was by a non-navy vessel and was confirmed to be from AF447. The debris referred to in the article you’ve just posted is that from the second debris field first approached by the navy today. That may be positive, as it may mean there is only the one debris field and thus reduce the search area.
The last few stories have been a bit unclear but it now looks like none of the debris found anywhere is from that flight yet. That must be hard to hear for the families.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/ ... index.html

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/s ... TopStories
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