Old fella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:38 am
Guess big question for me(and a good portion of the electorate )is what “ Outhouse O’Foole” would/could do any better than the current “sunny ways, blackface, pie in the sky” dude is attempting to do. I am all ears for well reasoned answers- the peanut gallery will be ignored though.
It isn’t my job to campaign for any party. But, I just want to make sure I understand your assertion.
You know that our current Prime Minister is destroying the country but you are okay with that because no one else could possibly do a better job? Is that what you are saying?
Why not try someone new just to see if they could be less damaging than what we currently have driving us towards no longer being a single nation through the policies of division? At this point, I’d take less damaging than this guy... which is a bar lying below the floor of the Marianas trench. There will be no Canada if he remains in office, and if you are okay with that, keep voting the way you are. It’s going to look lonely when you are living in upper and lower Canada but maybe that’s what you really want.
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I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
Old fella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 8:38 am
Guess big question for me(and a good portion of the electorate )is what “ Outhouse O’Foole” would/could do any better than the current “sunny ways, blackface, pie in the sky” dude is attempting to do. I am all ears for well reasoned answers- the peanut gallery will be ignored though.
It isn’t my job to campaign for any party. But, I just want to make sure I understand your assertion.
You know that our current Prime Minister is destroying the country but you are okay with that because no one else could possibly do a better job? Is that what you are saying?
Why not try someone new just to see if they could be less damaging than what we currently have driving us towards no longer being a single nation through the policies of division? At this point, I’d take less damaging than this guy... which is a bar lying below the floor of the Marianas trench. There will be no Canada if he remains in office, and if you are okay with that, keep voting the way you are. It’s going to look lonely when you are living in upper and lower Canada but maybe that’s what you really want.
Actually I can go back to the John Diefenbaker years( just barely) but certainly the Pearson years( which I do remember). The great flag debate, CCP and Medicare- it was said then as you implied now about destroying the country. Moving further ahead to the PQ and René Lévesque ‘76 and rolling into the early ‘80s with Constitutional debates- again the country was heading towards so called destruction. It got quite interesting in ‘95 but everyone moved on. Yes, JT got knocked off his “ sunny ways, pie in the sky , globe trotting silliness “ pedestal due to his well documented indiscretions and rightfully so. However to me all it means that he is down in the weeds with the rest of the PMs aka Dief, Pearson et al - nothing more, nothing less, he(JT) is no better or worse. Sorry but I have been around to long and seen/heard to much to be told any different.
The difference is, regardless of the mistakes or ill-advised decisions that the Pearsons, Mulroneys, Clarks, Chrétiens and Harpers (...even the original Trudeau) made in the past, they at least had the best intentions of the country at heart. They were "Statesmen". Justin Trudeau is not.
This guy is an egotistical zero. He's an effing drama teacher and he can't even act like a professional.
alkaseltzer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:31 pm
You liberal hacks are something else.
O’Toole was in the military, and is a lawyer.
Trudeau is a drama teacher.
You’re quoting the Toronto Star while the Financial Post flat out called Trudeau a despot.
If you’re not in the airline industry, I suggest you stay in the kiddie box, aka General Aviation. Debate about how to handle a 5kt crosswind.
Trudeau isn’t a drama teacher. He’s been a member of parliament since 2008 and the Prime Minister since 2015 now in his second term. So how about you finally get over this drama teacher nonsense?
O’toole’s background in the military does not in any universe automatically make him more qualified to be PM than the guy who actually is, but I’m willing to hear what he has to say.
What is O’toole’s plan vs the current governments?
alkaseltzer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:31 pm
You liberal hacks are something else.
O’Toole was in the military, and is a lawyer.
Trudeau is a drama teacher.
You’re quoting the Toronto Star while the Financial Post flat out called Trudeau a despot.
If you’re not in the airline industry, I suggest you stay in the kiddie box, aka General Aviation. Debate about how to handle a 5kt crosswind.
Trudeau isn’t a drama teacher. He’s been a member of parliament since 2008 and the Prime Minister since 2015 now in his second term. So how about you finally get over this drama teacher nonsense?
O’toole’s background in the military does not in any universe automatically make him more qualified to be PM than the guy who actually is, but I’m willing to hear what he has to say.
What is O’toole’s plan vs the current governments?
Teaching is a very honourable/dedicated profession regardless the level and discipline and it is my hope some of the more illustrious posters on this site get over slagging another’s professional curriculum vitae regardless the person’s standing in life- PM and down. Wouldn’t those same posters get quite annoyed and vocal if their airline pilot profession was tagged as nothing but glorified, overpaid bus/subway driving.
Rockie: You asked the very same question(O’Toole) I have been attempting to do but no answers on that. I guess those vocal posters can’t answer that simple question
Old fella wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:26 am
Rockie: You asked the very same question(O’Toole) I have been attempting to do but no answers on that. I guess those vocal posters can’t answer that simple question
Of note, Justin's original CERB was called the ERB and was to be only 10% of the average wage for 3 months.
Helping Businesses Keep their Workers
To support businesses that are facing revenue losses and to help prevent lay-offs, the government is proposing to provide eligible small employers a temporary wage subsidy for a period of three months. The subsidy will be equal to 10% of remuneration paid during that period, up to a maximum subsidy of $1,375 per employee and $25,000 per employer. Businesses will be able to benefit immediately from this support by reducing their remittances of income tax withheld on their employees’ remuneration. Employers benefiting from this measure will include corporations eligible for the small business deduction, as well as non-profit organizations and charities.https://www.canada.ca/en/department-fin ... upport_for
Then after a reality check about how bad things were becoming he went full tilt the other way and sprayed money around by even handing out CERB to TFWs and foreign students. I can't prove it but I think a Conservative gov't would have been a little more careful with tax dollars. https://www.greenhousecanada.com/tempor ... i-or-cerb/
They certainly would not have tried to hand their pals at the WE 'charity' millions to hand out money for volunteers. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/timeli ... -1.5660727
Well since there is plenty of copy and paste, here is another view to add to the commentary.
Source: Alex Boutilier The Star February 28/21
OTTAWA—Erin O’Toole’s inner circle believes the Conservative party has a “brand problem” they need to counter to be competitive in the next federal election, sources tell the Star.
So the Conservative leader is once again reintroducing himself to Canadians in a major advertising campaign that attempts to contrast O’Toole with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.
“Do you know who this is? Probably not. He’s no celebrity,” the advertisement voice-over goes.
“Just someone who’s in it for Canada. Not for headlines. Just Erin.”
The question for the Conservatives is whether “Just Erin” is enough — and whether anyone is listening amid a generational public health and economic crisis to what the opposition leader has to say.
At the same time, O’Toole is battling forces within his own party as he attempts to slap together a policy platform that explains to Canadians why they’d be better off under Conservative rule. And three separate sources told the Star that morale within the party’s caucus is low, with MPs anxious to be told what, exactly, O’Toole’s plan is.
All of this is likely to come to a head at the party’s virtual policy convention next month. The social conservative wing of the party has been working diligently to get their fellow travellers selected as delegates, and so gain a say in the party’s policy direction.
How effective they’ve been in their mission is not known. But two sources told the Star that they anticipate a sizable minority of delegates are committed social conservatives — enough to potentially tip the scales in policy votes.
This is the narrative pretty much every time the Conservative party gathers for a convention. Division within the party, so-cons rabble rousing, a grumpy caucus, and lingering questions about the leader’s hold over the rank and file.
But this time, there is good reason to believe that narrative.
O’Toole and the Conservatives are lagging in the national polls. But more concerning for the Conservatives, the party seems to be failing to make inroads in crucial electoral regions — specifically Ontario and Quebec.
The Conservative leader has been at the helm for six months, but those close to him acknowledge that Canadians don’t know who he is. Andrew Scheer, the party’s former leader deposed after a disappointing 2019 election, had more than two years to introduce himself to Canadians.
Nobody within the Conservative movement thinks O’Toole has that much time. A source close to O’Toole said the party is preparing for a spring election.
But the Conservative caucus remains largely in the dark about what pitch O’Toole intends to take into that election. The party has put forward little in terms of policy over the last six months. But the trial balloons O’Toole has floated — a robust environmental policy, support for private sector unions and medium-term deficit spending, bringing back manufacturing jobs lost to globalization — are raising eyebrows within the party.
One MP told the Star that the Erin O’Toole of the last six months is not the “true blue” Conservative he branded himself as during the leadership.
“What is our platform? What are we doing?,” the MP, who agreed to talk about the mood in caucus on the condition they not be named, said.
“By now … we should really be knowing, as a caucus, what we’re running on. And I think the challenge is he had a platform in the leadership that he’s largely shedding right now.”
A source close to O’Toole dismissed that, saying the MPs that are most concerned are the ones who win elections with sizable majorities — that is, Western MPs in safe Conservative ridings.
Elements within the social conservative movement, meanwhile, feel marginalized after O’Toole turfed one of their standard bearers, MP Derek Sloan. Sloan has previously told the Star that he had been organizing to ensure social conservatives made up a significant portion of the delegates
The internal drama means O’Toole and his team have to keep eyes on caucus management and debates within the movement — as well as avoiding any embarrassments at the March policy convention — while preparing for a general election this year.
To that end, they’ve been extensively polling and running focus groups on what Canadians want from the Conservative party. One source said that Justin Bumstead, the pollster who played a key role in O’Toole’s surprise victory in the leadership race, has been collecting significant amounts of data to inform the Conservative strategy.
A second source said that while the party has made gains in the digital and data campaign game, they still believe they lag behind the Liberal party — whose historic 2015 election campaign was heavily data-driven.
That polling is almost certainly informing the party’s current PR push — trying to highlight O’Toole’s personality, his past military service and experience as a Bay Street lawyer. The ads contrast O’Toole’s life experience with what the Conservatives think about Trudeau — O’Toole is “not a celebrity,” “not in it for the headlines,” he’s “Just Erin.”
It remains to be seen whether “Just Erin” is enough for the Conservative party — or for the general public.
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Last edited by Old fella on Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
I find paragraphs 33, 45, 50 and 52 to be deeply concerning.
Good pick ups. That is in fact very concerning!!! Everyone should take the 5 mins and read those 4 paragraphs....However, what are our other choices....?
Full marks to Ruddervator for scanning closely rather than reading too quickly which is my error.
33 is a problem I agree
45 is not - more competition not less.
50 is debatable. It specifies Open Skies "in Canada's overall interests". That would need to be clarified for sure. / Accountability for airport authorities? Sure - let's start with the AIF's / Airlines on the Nav Canada board - neutral - it might be good to have real world operators giving their input rather than them unilaterally deciding which towers are to be shuttered.
52 is a huge problem and if they went down that road I would either have to vote Rhinocerous or whatever the Wexit party is. I've emailed them directly to ask about this specific point. Cabotage experiments are not on.
As for the rest, as I've said elsewhere, of all the parties (I called them teams - Orange,Green,Blue and Red,) the blue team is least likely to do me economic harm. I can point to my taxes under Harper and those under Trudeau as proof.
Old Fella notes that they are having an online policy convention. If I get answers back about 33 & 52, I'll post it.
Appears to be a policy document from 2018, a year before the 2019 election which I assume this paper was the basis of their(CPC) campaign. To be fair the CPC has a new leader and no doubt there will be policy revisions which could present internal problems for O’Toole aka vocal and dedicated social conservative elements. Social conservatism is not the path to power here in Canada, the combined progressive vote last time around(2019) certainly indicated the country’s position. I suspect O’Toole is keenly aware of that.
Old fella wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 7:12 pm
Actually I can go back to the John Diefenbaker years( just barely) but certainly the Pearson years( which I do remember). The great flag debate, CCP and Medicare- it was said then as you implied now about destroying the country. Moving further ahead to the PQ and René Lévesque ‘76 and rolling into the early ‘80s with Constitutional debates- again the country was heading towards so called destruction. It got quite interesting in ‘95 but everyone moved on. Yes, JT got knocked off his “ sunny ways, pie in the sky , globe trotting silliness “ pedestal due to his well documented indiscretions and rightfully so. However to me all it means that he is down in the weeds with the rest of the PMs aka Dief, Pearson et al - nothing more, nothing less, he(JT) is no better or worse. Sorry but I have been around to long and seen/heard to much to be told any different.
Over and out.
I remember Trudeau senior and his politics of division. While he seems to live on a pedestal in this nation he did a lot of damage, and Jr just pulled the old playbook out of his dad's desk drawer. He doesn't seem to understand he's not just the Prime Minister of Ontario, Quebec and BC. He also has to deal with the parts of the country he has deep personal hatred for. But he doesn't... he's using his power to punish those parts of the country.
I'm not sure why everyone hates Harper so much. Sure the guy wasn't all that charismatic and at the end he had to go... just like all of them. But like Chrétien his first and second term were actually quite good for the country, and like Chrétien he had to go by term 3. There's something about that 3rd term that seems to send every politician over the edge of sanity into the realm of the truly bizarre behaviour.
I am disappointed that you wouldn't want to get rid of this particular "leader." Unlike most of the entrenched population of Canada, I don't see Trudeau as the Liberals any more than I saw Harper as the Conservatives. This party needs to lose the next election so they can choose a different leader and come back refreshed for the next cycle... but this particular person is actively destructive to our nation. Not passively destructive as so many of your examples have been, but actively trying to destroy the nation. He needs to go and if you vote for his party based on your reasoning I can't respect that decision. We have 4 federal parties, pick any one you like except Liberal for one election. No one could be worse than this guy.
You do have a valid point that if the Conservatives want to get elected they really need to have a platform to stand on and say, "This who we are and what we stand for" instead of, "He's bad, elect us." That's not a valid reason to vote for someone. But I am actively voting against someone right now because he is so damned destructive to our nation... except 3 provinces. The only 3 that vote for him. The Conservatives have to go back to actually being what the party is supposed to be, fiscally conservative and dump the social conservative movement out the door.
I've already written four times what I meant to because our PM really gets under my skin. His policies are horrible and so is his rule over the people of this nation. He's in it for himself and no one else in a way that goes above and beyond any of our previous PM's. It's time he went. He's already got his lifetime, inflation indexed pension courtesy of the people of this nation.
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I'm going to knock this up a notch with my spice weasle. Bam!
Canoehead wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:00 pm
He's an effing drama teacher and he can't even act like a professional.
I'm curious, what was your first job out of school? Should we all make fun of you because of your first job after finishing school, ofc assuming you did finish...
JT did a bachelor of art in literature at McGill, then a bachelor of education at UBC. When he finished two degrees, he started out as a substitute teacher, like most teachers, that's the entry level position. It happens that as the more junior on the sub list, he was called mostly for drama classes As time progressed and he became a full time employee of the school he taught french and math. He was working on a masters degree at McGill when he withdrew to become a member of parliament. Right up until the elected part, it was a pretty typical path for a teacher.
But ya I know, the drama teacher shot makes for a great sound bite, and does a fairly good job of convincing folks that cant be bothered to dig up the details of the matter.
Personally, I am starting to think I may just vote conservative in the next election. I can already see the screaming start here on AvCanada when they introduce the 'experiment with cabotage on select routes' from the platform. We'll be able to watch a southwest 737 do KPHX -> YVR -> YYZ -> YOW -> YWG- > YVR- > KPHX. Wont that be great for 'competition' and ticket prices.....
alkaseltzer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:31 pm
If you’re not in the airline industry, I suggest you stay in the kiddie box, aka General Aviation. Debate about how to handle a 5kt crosswind.
You are just a bus driver, I suggest you stay in your union meetings and leave the finances on how to run a country to the grown ups in the C-Suite.
Canoehead wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:00 pm
He's an effing drama teacher and he can't even act like a professional.
I'm curious, what was your first job out of school? Should we all make fun of you because of your first job after finishing school, ofc assuming you did finish...
JT did a bachelor of art in literature at McGill, then a bachelor of education at UBC. When he finished two degrees, he started out as a substitute teacher, like most teachers, that's the entry level position. It happens that as the more junior on the sub list, he was called mostly for drama classes As time progressed and he became a full time employee of the school he taught french and math. He was working on a masters degree at McGill when he withdrew to become a member of parliament. Right up until the elected part, it was a pretty typical path for a teacher.
But ya I know, the drama teacher shot makes for a great sound bite, and does a fairly good job of convincing folks that cant be bothered to dig up the details of the matter.
Personally, I am starting to think I may just vote conservative in the next election. I can already see the screaming start here on AvCanada when they introduce the 'experiment with cabotage on select routes' from the platform. We'll be able to watch a southwest 737 do KPHX -> YVR -> YYZ -> YOW -> YWG- > YVR- > KPHX. Wont that be great for 'competition' and ticket prices.....
+1!
The drama teacher thing is getting annoying and irrelevant. If you need to bring that up to try and win an argument, you've lost.
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As an AvCanada discussion grows longer:
-the probability of 'entitlement' being mentioned, approaches 1
-one will be accused of using bad airmanship
I don't think he’s even fit to be a drama teacher. He’s had groping allegations by several women which have been covered up by the media. He appears to be under the influences of drugs a lot of the time you see him talk. Would you want him teaching your children?
Old fella wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:36 pm
Hey Mach1.
Your raised some interesting points no doubt, decent commentary actually and you kept it civil.
Let’s settle on a zero-sum game, JT gets under your skin like Harper got under my skin pre 2015.
Cheers mate.
I think Mach1 is spot on, this PM does not represent "Canada" or all "Canadians", I don't see him uniting the country and I'm sick of identity politics (all parties). The Conservatives are doing themselves no favours with porta-potty humour and I'm less than impressed with Mr. O'Toole at this particular juncture. He does have time to right his ship and get his house in order, but he better put some coal on the fire and start showing us his direction.
I think it's pathetic that politics has become such a blood sport that we can't get any decent and intelligent people to run the country for fear of what skeletons the opposition will drag out of the closet. When did we regress to the point that certain lines get crossed? No good candidates will come forward for fear of what shrapnel will be launched against family or friends, so we are left with self absorbed narcissist.
I hope everyone is keeping their head above water .. to the best of your ability.
Canoehead wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:00 pm
He's an effing drama teacher and he can't even act like a professional.
I'm curious, what was your first job out of school? Should we all make fun of you because of your first job after finishing school, ofc assuming you did finish...
JT did a bachelor of art in literature at McGill, then a bachelor of education at UBC. When he finished two degrees, he started out as a substitute teacher, like most teachers, that's the entry level position. It happens that as the more junior on the sub list, he was called mostly for drama classes As time progressed and he became a full time employee of the school he taught french and math. He was working on a masters degree at McGill when he withdrew to become a member of parliament. Right up until the elected part, it was a pretty typical path for a teacher.
But ya I know, the drama teacher shot makes for a great sound bite, and does a fairly good job of convincing folks that cant be bothered to dig up the details of the matter.
Personally, I am starting to think I may just vote conservative in the next election. I can already see the screaming start here on AvCanada when they introduce the 'experiment with cabotage on select routes' from the platform. We'll be able to watch a southwest 737 do KPHX -> YVR -> YYZ -> YOW -> YWG- > YVR- > KPHX. Wont that be great for 'competition' and ticket prices.....
I'm well familiar with the details of the matter. I'm also quite familiar with the teaching profession. Thanks for the lesson goldeneagle; I'll certainly dispense with the drama (and yes I finished school, and the first job was instructing; nothing that would prepare me to be a politician).
Vote how you wish- I voted Conservative previously, and will do so again, even though I am not a big fan of O'Toole either.
goldeneagle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:48 am
JT did a bachelor of art in literature at McGill, then a bachelor of education at UBC. When he finished two degrees, he started out as a substitute teacher, like most teachers, that's the entry level position. It happens that as the more junior on the sub list, he was called mostly for drama classes As time progressed and he became a full time employee of the school he taught french and math. He was working on a masters degree at McGill when he withdrew to become a member of parliament. Right up until the elected part, it was a pretty typical path for a teacher.
You can have a masters degree and still be an idiot, Don't confuse education with intelligence.
goldeneagle wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:48 am
JT did a bachelor of art in literature at McGill, then a bachelor of education at UBC. When he finished two degrees, he started out as a substitute teacher, like most teachers, that's the entry level position. It happens that as the more junior on the sub list, he was called mostly for drama classes As time progressed and he became a full time employee of the school he taught french and math. He was working on a masters degree at McGill when he withdrew to become a member of parliament. Right up until the elected part, it was a pretty typical path for a teacher.
You can have a masters degree and still be an idiot, Don't confuse education with intelligence.
Yes, and you can be a Captain on a B787 and still be an idiot as well. Idiotic behaviour knows no bounds either. Just saying.
alkaseltzer wrote: ↑Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:31 pm
If you’re not in the airline industry, I suggest you stay in the kiddie box, aka General Aviation. Debate about how to handle a 5kt crosswind.
You are just a bus driver, I suggest you stay in your union meetings and leave the finances on how to run a country to the grown ups in the C-Suite.
Aw, the 7 seater Navajo pilot has an opinion. Knows more about Trudeau and being a grown up than how his propellor governor works.
Stick to what you know best, play in your sandbox.
