The Next Gear Up Landing

[yycflyguy]

FWIW taken from TSB website:

Canadian-registered aircraft, other than ultralights, were involved in 251 reported accidents in 2008, a 12% decrease from the 2007 total of 284, and a 7% decrease from the 2003-2007 average of 270. The 2008 estimate of flying activity is 4,432,000 hours, yielding an accident rate of 5.7 accidents per 100,000 flying hours, down from both the 2007 rate and the five-year rate of 6.7. Canadian-registered aircraft, other than ultralights, were involved in 24 fatal occurrences with 49 fatalities in 2008, compared to the 33 fatal occurrences with 49 fatalities in 2007 and to the five year average of 31 fatal occurrences with 49 fatalities. A total of 8 fatal occurrences involved commercial aircraft (3 aeroplanes and 5 helicopters), and 13 fatal occurrences involved privately operated aircraft (10 aeroplanes and 3 helicopters). The number of accidents involving ultralights decreased to 29 in 2008 from 30 in 2007, and the number of fatal accidents increased to 12 in 2008 from 5 in 2007.

This is from 2006 and the previous 10 years:

Flying activity is comparable to last year and the accident rate is unchanged from the 2005 accident rate of 6.3 accidents per 100 000 flying hours. Statistical analysis using linear regression indicates a significant downward trend (p<.001)1 in accident rates over the past 10 years.

The 262 accidents involving Canadian-registered aircraft (excluding ultralights) included 208 aeroplanes2 (60 of which were commercially operated) and 56 helicopters. The remaining 4 were balloons, gliders or gyrocopters.

I won't bold it, but it states a significant downward trend in accidents over the past 10 years.

[xsbank]

I have to post anonymously as my employer would lay an egg if he (they) knew it was me. I do tell some people here who I am, . knows me as we have talked on the phone and even crossed paths in the past. Most of those who post here who are part of the sub-human contingent won't get to know me voluntarily. Besides, there are usually hundreds of lurkers on here ('guests') to whom I feel little or no obligation to entertain.

It isn't anonymity that messes up the forum, its people who refuse to use common courtesy or use the respect that we were supposed to learn at our parent's knees. I know I have risen to the bait in the past but I am trying to raise my own standards and respond, if not always with respect, at least with a modicum of courtesy. Also, I usually re-read my own missives and try and get the spelling and grammar right so even if the message is garbled by my weird logic, I don't drive the unwashed mad with my writing.

[BoostedNihilist]

Also, I usually re-read my own missives and try and get the spelling and grammar right so even if the message is garbled by my weird logic, I don't drive the unwashed mad with my speling an gramer.

Fail



Just messing with you Xs

[xsbank]

You missed 'speling.' I guess I was too subtle.

[BoostedNihilist]

wow, big idiot right here... I read faster than I think apparently.

[snaproll20]

Doc.

I have stayed out of this landing gear issue. No explanation offered other than avoiding all the dumb slagging going on.

Since exactitude seems to be the driving issue, I find issue with your new sign-off comment:

At the end of the flight....put the bloody gear down.

Does not seem chronologically safe and may prompt another failure to "dangle the donuts."

By definition, "Flight" ends when the aircraft touches down, so that would be a little late to extend the gear. May I respectfully suggest "Before the end of the flight....."


Sharp pilots conduct dull flights.

[Doc]

I don't say, "Gear down.." I say...."Engage the propeller protectors..."
I used to fly an F27. On this aircraft, the mains were the speed brakes. You could flip this wee switch, and out would come the mains. It's a Hawker sized airplane, with a high wing, so the main gear was a quite substantial unit. You could hang them out at Vne. To lower the wee nose wheel you have to select gear down on a rather huge gear handle.......I always thought a "real man" could do a touch and go, with just the speed brakes? Never was enough of a "real" man to try it though...

[peakbagger]

Doc, you may know a hell of a lot more than me about flying, but there is nothing you can teach me about class.

[Strega]

Ive seen a guy do the no nosewheel touch and go in a longez at osh a number of years back!

[Doc]

Doc, you may know a hell of a lot more than me about flying, but there is nothing you can teach me about class.

I have absolutely what you mean by that? Was it some sort of insult?

[Dust Devil]

Doc, you may know a hell of a lot more than me about flying, but there is nothing you can teach me about class.

Apparently class involves shoving your head in the sand and pretending there isn't a problem. Doc and Cat have been saying what needs to be said. Sometimes that involves saying it such a blunt direct way that the ultra sensitive types get all butt hurt over it.

[Cat Driver]

Not only that Dust Devil but we walk the walk and talk the talk when it comes to flying aircraft safely and professionally...

Win lose or draw you can not dispute facts.

Now if only the ones who jump all over our posts can go through their career and end up with a record like we have then they can be forgiven for being a little judgmental.

[TAWS]

Not only that Dust Devil but we walk the walk and talk the talk when it comes to flying aircraft safely and professionally...

Win lose or draw you can not dispute facts.

Now if only the ones who jump all over our posts can go through their career and end up with a record like we have then they can be forgiven for being a little judgmental.

Would you like anything to wash down your humble pie, or can I send Doc over to your house to continue patting your back when your hand gets sore?

I hate to break your bubble Cat....but believe it or not there are a lot of people in the industry that get through their career safely and accident free. These people are able to share their careers with others at eye level instead of floating 6 feet above them looking down on them like you two.

I must be mistaken, but I thought Doc has bent airplanes in the past......must be wrong though.....things don't happen to people with a distinguished career like you have mentioned above....... but if he did, there must be an explanation, after all it wouldn't be his fault, would it?

[xsbank]

I have had a career in aviation that is now longer than 35 years and I have attended funerals for 7 fellow-pilots. Haven't you figured this out yet? Screw you and your humble pie.

Why is a gear-up landing ever OK? Its one small step to a smoking hole. Think about it. Now I'm done with this topic, except to pick up my winnings!

[Doc]

I hate to break your bubble Cat....but believe it or not there
I must be mistaken, but I thought Doc has bent airplanes in the past......must be wrong though.....things don't happen to people with a distinguished career like you have mentioned above....... but if he did, there must be an explanation, after all it wouldn't be his fault, would it?

Okay, I've been in two cases of bent metal. I was co-joe on a Dak in the early'70's. The captain got sideways on takeoff in slush and the gear sheared off. Airplane is still there. Kind of hard to blame that one on me. I'm sure you can find a way there, TAWS?

Second one was in Sandy Lake. I was the captain on this one. The Hawker 748. The entire nose gear assembly fell out of the wheel well during takeoff attempt, because the wonderful maintenance folks at Wasaya didn't bother to install it correctly! Of course, Wasaya being Wasaya, tried to point the finger my way. Not the first time I told Wasaya to "pound sand.." Try to blame that one on me there as well, TAWS?

Of course, you could post something of a positive nature? Or, you could continue to add absolutely nothing, and maintain the status quo?

[TAWS]

Of course, you could post something of a positive nature? Or, you could continue to add absolutely nothing, and maintain the status quo?

You're lecturing me on posting something positive, and adding nothing ....you're a piece of work!

This from a guy who calls people morons, idiots and created this so-called positive thread called "The Next Gear Up Landing"...a pool on aviation accidents involving your peers...nice

Oh ya...figured you'd have an explanation on the bent metal...all the "greats" do.

[AuxBatOn]

Second one was in Sandy Lake. I was the captain on this one. The Hawker 748. The entire nose gear assembly fell out of the wheel well during takeoff attempt, because the wonderful maintenance folks at Wasaya didn't bother to install it correctly! Of course, Wasaya being Wasaya, tried to point the finger my way. Not the first time I told Wasaya to "pound sand.." Try to blame that one on me there as well, TAWS?

What about walking around the airplane before you go?

[Cat Driver]

Oh ya...figured you'd have an explanation on the bent metal...all the "greats" do.

TAWS can you elaborate on what " all the greats " means?

What exactly does one have to do to be considered a " great " ?

[Hedley]

35 years and I have attended funerals for 7 fellow-pilots

That number is surprisingly low, xsbank. I would be
interested to know if you have surrounded yourself
by either incredibly superb pilots - who always seem
to find the way out of a tight situation - or if you
operate in a very low-risk environment.

Over the decades in my experience it's at least one a
year, often two. A guy I know died yesterday in an
airplane crash

[Cougar]

Jeez, I sure WISH it was only seven funerals.

Wow, it has been 5 people per year for just the last two years... and many, many before that.

It's not a very good thing to think about at all. I sure can't defend it to some friends and family, either, so I've learned to just never bring it up with them.

[Cat Driver]

I must be mistaken, but I thought Doc has bent airplanes in the past......must be wrong though.....things don't happen to people with a distinguished career like you have mentioned above....... but if he did, there must be an explanation, after all it wouldn't be his fault, would it?

If a bent airplane was the result of a mechanical failure how can you blame the pilot TAWS?

[xsbank]

Hedley! Glad you're back. I'm sorry that you lost another friend. That's the whole point of this thread I think. 7 was just the funerals that I was able to attend.

Yes, I had good pilots in my groups; the company I worked for the longest where the work was very hazardous, the insurance company said "enough" so we introduced SOPs and checklists, lost all the cowboys and began thorough de-briefs and the death-rate fell from 1.3 on average per year to about one every 3 - 5 years and now, virtually none. That shows that it is possible - the operation of aircraft is a thoroughly demanding and unforgiving occupation that requires dedication and study and concentration. I worry when I hear "I love to fly" because to me it means you may be distracted from the real job, which is to safely transport paying passengers responsibly in somebody else' expensive equipment.

The fact that we are still having accidents in the old junk like Navajos, after 50 years of flying them, means we draw our members from a particularly stupid or feckless group or they are so unsafe and difficult to fly safely that no paying passengers should be allowed closer to one than the length of a barge pole. I'm sure that the current accident rate is partly why the wages are so bloody low now, lower than when I flew them 30 years ago.

[Cat Driver]

Who won the pool?

[The Old Fogducker]

Did anybody take out an insurance policy?

[Doc]

What about walking around the airplane before you go?

It wasn't something that would have been noticed on a walk about. The aircraft had been in service for a while with the fault. It was a "pin" behind the scenes. We aren't engineers. There are some things that have to be preformed by maintenance......you should know that, considering what you fly. However, they did try to pin on us, even though a gear leg that retracts forward, was lying BEHIND the gear well! Lovely operation. ALWAYS blame the pilots if possible.