May 1 startup day Air Georgian

[CanadianEh]

Do GGN pilots have the same uniform as Jazz pilots?

[HiLo]

Do GGN pilots have the same uniform as Jazz pilots?

What's that got to do with the price of AvGas?

BTW, notice the epaulettes:
http://www.airgeorgian.ca/recruitment-p ... ogram.html

[Localizer]

No hate .. Just don't write bs, also it's good to have 99% completion but OTP should also be taken into consideration. ie delays up to seven hours etc.

Jazz pilots advancing their careers?? Are you for real? Is that what things boil down to in today's age? Who cares how much I make as long as I'm a captain? Yikes! There truly is little to no hope for any of us when this is the mentality being displayed.

[avpride]

No hate .. Just don't write bs, also it's good to have 99% completion but OTP should also be taken into consideration. ie delays up to seven hours etc.

Jazz pilots advancing their careers?? Are you for real? Is that what things boil down to in today's age? Who cares how much I make as long as I'm a captain? Yikes! There truly is little to no hope for any of us when this is the mentality being displayed.

Well OTP is on par most days with Jazz CRJ's so I think they are doing fine. They still have issues with recovery which is a function of a small fleet. What is wrong with going to a growing company as a Captain instead of stagnating your career as an FO at a company with no movement. I think we are in more trouble if all you look at is your paycheck and I am pretty sure Capt Sky is a better life than Jazz FO almost anyway you look at it.

[rxl]

Which begs the question, if life is that much better as a Captain at SKY, then why did only a handful of First Officers out of roughly 700 leave Jazz for those positions?

[Canoehead]

avpride

Not sure who you are, but why don't you check your facts on everything above before you start trying defend a dismal start up, and Jamie's flying club.
CR is after one thing, and it's not about giving the warm and fuzzies to his new 'diversification' outfits.

If you're a new employee in the right seat of an RJ at GGN, congrats on your big career move. But don't sit and beak off about what you know nothing of. As a former GGN employee, and a current Jazz FO (who wouldn't touch a left seat invite from SR, GGN or Encore), I have some credibility here as do many of the other posters.

What's yours?

[avpride]

avpride

Not sure who you are, but why don't you check your facts on everything above before you start trying defend a dismal start up, and Jamie's flying club.
CR is after one thing, and it's not about giving the warm and fuzzies to his new 'diversification' outfits.

If you're a new employee in the right seat of an RJ at GGN, congrats on your big career move. But don't sit and beak off about what you know nothing of. As a former GGN employee, and a current Jazz FO (who wouldn't touch a left seat invite from SR, GGN or Encore), I have some credibility here as do many of the other posters.

What's yours?

Ah yes - a former employee who is bitter he left too early, good move on Jazz FO

[Localizer]

Lol! Avpride = troll

I can't get over the irony of your alias, I'm doubting how much pride you could really have.

[DH772]

Ah yes - a former employee who is bitter he left too early, good move on Jazz FO

You must have trouble fitting through the cockpit door.
So naive

[Canoehead]

Had a rebuttal typed out but can't be bothered.
I believe Loc has this covered.

[rxl]

Troll = nothing constructive to add = not worth the bandwidth.

[avpride]

Troll = nothing constructive to add = not worth the bandwidth.

I do not work for Jazz so I must be a troll - got it. You guys are too funny. We all understand you are upset about diversification, don't vent on your fellow pilots because they look at career opportunities differently than you do. We know you need to make Sky and GGN look inferior to Jazz, we all get your motivation. Move on.

[Localizer]

I do not work for Jazz so I must be a troll - got it. You guys are too funny. We all understand you are upset about diversification, don't vent on your fellow pilots because they look at career opportunities differently than you do. We know you need to make Sky and GGN look inferior to Jazz, we all get your motivation. Move on.

You're a troll because you seek nothing more then ruffling feathers and fabricating truths, not because you don't work for Jazz, Air Canada, Transat or Westjet. The issue isn't diversification .. its degradation hiding under the guise of diversification. I've stated in many post that I have no issue with GGN or SKR pilots (I do take issue with ex-Jazz pilots), unlike you (another reason you're a troll) you want to make this a Jazz pilot versus GGN/SKR pilot. My issues are with the companies and corporations .. Do you think this would be an issue if WAWCON was on par? If WAWCON was on par that would be true diversification.

[avpride]

I do not work for Jazz so I must be a troll - got it. You guys are too funny. We all understand you are upset about diversification, don't vent on your fellow pilots because they look at career opportunities differently than you do. We know you need to make Sky and GGN look inferior to Jazz, we all get your motivation. Move on.

You're a troll because you seek nothing more then ruffling feathers and fabricating truths, not because you don't work for Jazz, Air Canada, Transat or Westjet. The issue isn't diversification .. its degradation hiding under the guise of diversification. I've stated in many post that I have no issue with GGN or SKR pilots (I do take issue with ex-Jazz pilots), unlike you (another reason you're a troll) you want to make this a Jazz pilot versus GGN/SKR pilot. My issues are with the companies and corporations .. Do you think this would be an issue if WAWCON was on par? If WAWCON was on par that would be true diversification.

Wow, it must feel good to vent. I may ruffle a few feathers of the Jazz guys but considering there are so few of them on this forum I think I am safe. If that makes me a troll OK. I have not fabricated anything, truth is there is a diversification going on the the regional market. AGL competed against US operators like Express Jet and Mesa (guessing on the operators) for the CRJ work so we should just be glad they saved the jobs for Canadians. WAWCONs at Jazz are out of whack with the rest of Canada - not relevant to any discussion regarding future regional work in Canada (AC or WJ).

[Localizer]

I don't think many people will respond to this post because I proved another point .. you just can't argue with stupid.

Have a good day ..

[Heisenberg666]

Maybe the pilots that left Jazz just wanted to advance their careers and become Captains sooner and get in on the ground floor of a company that is growing. Shame on you for judging another persons choices.

There is not a single pilot from Jazz that came to GGN.

The ones from Sky that were ex-Jazz were just at GGN for a short while to do line indoc, and they have since returned to Sky.

[Canoehead]

Loc

I suspect this person is either brand new to this business, or is in a management position just trying to stir up shat.

The fact that he thinks (and is 'proud') that they 'beat out the US regionals' in the tender speaks volumes about his knowledge and respect for the pilot profession in Canada.

(I tend to think he's in management... or a management wannabe).

I'm straying from my posting convictions now... So I'm done.

[avpride]

Loc

I suspect this person is either brand new to this business, or is in a management position just trying to stir up shat.

The fact that he thinks (and is 'proud') that they 'beat out the US regionals' in the tender speaks volumes about his knowledge and respect for the pilot profession in Canada.

(I tend to think he's in management... or a management wannabe).

I'm straying from my posting convictions now... So I'm done.

Yup - an opinion that does not support sitting right seat at Jazz for 7 years so I must not be a pilot trying to build a career.

[rxl]

Avpride,

IF you are indeed a pilot "trying to build a career", I have to ask you a couple of questions ... questions that we ALL need to be asking ourselves.

Just how low are we willing to go in terms of wages and working conditions to "build a career"?

Is it acceptable to undercut well established WAWCON in the business to "build a career"?

Should we as pilots have any expectation what-so-ever of being able to live comfortably in a place like Toronto or Vancouver and raise a family while working in the so-called "regional" airline industry in Canada?

How is it "out of whack with the rest of Canada" to want to earn a good wage and enjoy descent working conditions?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

It never ceases to amaze me how Canadian pilots are at each others's throats, when in fact we are all just victims of schemers who are not at our level. I've been tirelessly fighting the foreign pilot issue for over two years now, and never I have I gone on personal attacks against the foreign pilots themselves, nor against my any of fellow Canadian pilots. I argue with them over facts, but do not attack them.

The current problem as I see it is with lax government oversight, which allows these situations we are victim of to occur, and the companies themselves who profit from putting one group of pilot against another. Government tends to listen to those who speak with them and in the present case, the only ones speaking to the government has been the companies.

The Americans themselves have realized that their model for feeders was broken and needed fixing, yet in Canada, we have companies trying to imitate the old American model that mostly generates profits on the backs of shitty WACONS. In the meantime, leasing companies, insurance companies, aircraft manufacturers, airports, oil companies are bathing in gold thanks to the airlines, and different levels of government or government corporations such as the GTAA taxes the hell out of the industry. Edit: I forgot to mention CEO salaries and benefits.

Sometimes in order to make progress on such files, one needs access to lawyers, to lobbyists, to PR people. Unions cannot do this alone, especially when many of the actors are not even represented by Unions. None of this will happen if we the victims fight over the shitty food the jail-warden throws at us. Let's not fight over the crumbs. We have to become smart, creative and come up with an innovative solution. We have bright members amongst us. It's time some of these bright people stepped up to the plate and used their brains.

[Kid]

Very well stated Gilles, spot on!

[avpride]

Avpride,

IF you are indeed a pilot "trying to build a career", I have to ask you a couple of questions ... questions that we ALL need to be asking ourselves.

Just how low are we willing to go in terms of wages and working conditions to "build a career"?

Is it acceptable to undercut well established WAWCON in the business to "build a career"?

Should we as pilots have any expectation what-so-ever of being able to live comfortably in a place like Toronto or Vancouver and raise a family while working in the so-called "regional" airline industry in Canada?

How is it "out of whack with the rest of Canada" to want to earn a good wage and enjoy descent working conditions?

Answer me this first. Do you know the wages and conditions at AGL or are you listening to the negative hype by the Jazz guys who lost the work?

I make 76 - 86 K as a Captain with per-diems plus OT vs whatever a Jazz FO makes which would be my other option - how is this wrong? Plus I don't have to move or commute.

My chances to go to AC if I want to are the same at either place - how is this bad?

[Koalemos]

Answer me this first. Do you know the wages and conditions at AGL or are you listening to the negative hype by the Jazz guys who lost the work?

I make 76 - 86 K as a Captain with per-diems plus OT vs whatever a Jazz FO makes which would be my other option - how is this wrong? Plus I don't have to move or commute.

My chances to go to AC if I want to are the same at either place - how is this bad?

1. Per diems do not count as income, they are meant to help compensate for stupidly expensive meals at hotels and airports. The government agrees on this point, that's why they don't tax them and are called Meal Allowance (or whatever legal jargon it is).

2. 70k base for a jet Captain (subtracting 6k for per diems, see the above point) ... Ouch. No pension, no pay scale increase aside from bumps for cost of living, and low grade benefits, you're not helping your argument here.

3. 10 GDOs and you want to work overtime?????? I can only guess either you don't have family, or don't care if you see them.

4. Jazz union vs GGN union. I suggest doing some research on the forums regarding the GGN union and what happened there in the last year or so.

5. No commute. I actually see what you're saying on that score, commuting sucks.

If someone is stuck at GGN, I can see why they would jump from the 1900 to the RJ to get some jet time to try and move on. Otherwise .... I don't get it.

[avpride]

Answer me this first. Do you know the wages and conditions at AGL or are you listening to the negative hype by the Jazz guys who lost the work?

I make 76 - 86 K as a Captain with per-diems plus OT vs whatever a Jazz FO makes which would be my other option - how is this wrong? Plus I don't have to move or commute.

My chances to go to AC if I want to are the same at either place - how is this bad?

1. Per diems do not count as income, they are meant to help compensate for stupidly expensive meals at hotels and airports. The government agrees on this point, that's why they don't tax them and are called Meal Allowance (or whatever legal jargon it is).

2. 70k base for a jet Captain (subtracting 6k for per diems, see the above point) ... Ouch. No pension, no pay scale increase aside from bumps for cost of living, and low grade benefits, you're not helping your argument here.

3. 10 GDOs and you want to work overtime?????? I can only guess either you don't have family, or don't care if you see them.

4. Jazz union vs GGN union. I suggest doing some research on the forums regarding the GGN union and what happened there in the last year or so.

5. No commute. I actually see what you're saying on that score, commuting sucks.

If someone is stuck at GGN, I can see why they would jump from the 1900 to the RJ to get some jet time to try and move on. Otherwise .... I don't get it.

I added per-diems because that is what some Jazz FO did justifying sitting right seat for 7 years.

It is not a question of being a Capt or FO (although I like being a Capt way more) it is that I make 70 - 80 K for doing my job. Why would I ever want to make 60Kish as a Jazz FO when I can make 10 - 20K more? They do have a matching RRSP plan now although not for 5 years (who cares - I aint here for the long run) Contrary to AvCan hype they have an awesome benefits package including loss of lic.

I hit OT without going into my 10 GDO's, min guar is 70 hours and that is low but I hear it is bumping up to 80 which is more realistic still easy to hit OT within the normal schedule.

If I had my choice I would have no union but from what I can see ALPA has made things far worse for Jazz not better.

For me it is about how much money I can make given my options and balance that with lifestyle. Commute as a Jazz FO or stay in TO as a GGN Capt making more cash. Any difference in GDO's is made up for in not commuting and I earn OT. Sky GGN are growing and that is good no matter what. In 18 moths I will either be at GGN making another 12 - 15K as an instructor or LIDC or at AC or some other airline that offers better career opportunities than the options I have available now. In any case it is far far better than sitting as an FO in some old Dash 100 for 7 years for a company who is facing some big questions of stability.

Bottom line is for me I like the money, I like working for a company that is growing and I like being a Capt vs. an FO on simular equip. If Jazz said hey fly for us you will be a Capt and make 120K in 12 or 24 months that would be a game changer for me. As it is I live in the real world.

[Localizer]

(who cares - I aint here for the long run)

I guess that line sums it all up ... shit on those that are, it pretty much feels like being back in the bush ... you'd fly for free just to be the Captain .. barf!