Cargo North (North Star Air) Crashes DC3 in PickleLake

[tvguru]

What's the rule for taking off below landing minima? A takeoff alternate within 60 minutes on single engine?

Landing alternate within 60min with both engines running.

Edit: Looks like I'm out to lunch again.

[Surfer Dude]

Oh my mistake, is it not a 705 aircraft?

[Bacunayagua]

Considering it has an MTOW of well over 28 thousand pounds and a seat capacity of 38. I'd say it's definitely a transport category aircraft.

[TG]

Does anyone know what actually happened?
Can't even find a Cador about it (if any)

[goingnowherefast]

CADORs usually take a few days to show up. Remember this is also a weekend now, so you might see a CADOR on Tuesday.

[NotDirty!]

Oh my mistake, is it not a 705 aircraft?

I believe that they are operating on an exemption to allow them to operate under 704. They also have prevented more than 9 passenger seats from being occupied (assuming the cargo config) so takeoff alternate must be within 60 minutes at normal cruise speed.

[Surfer Dude]

Oh my mistake, is it not a 705 aircraft?

I believe that they are operating on an exemption to allow them to operate under 704. They also have prevented more than 9 passenger seats from being occupied (assuming the cargo config) so takeoff alternate must be within 60 minutes at normal cruise speed.

Not surprising. TC really doesn't care that much about cargo pilots.
Not that any of this has anything to do with the accident anyways. I just thought if the T/O wasn't legal it could indicate a company culture issue which could be a contributing factor to this accident. We all knows how things go in the North. But if they are operating under 704 then I think they held a legal takeoff alternate.

[cggnl]

Lansdowne House 96nm ENE.

CYLH 171900Z AUTO 18012KT 130V200 9SM SCT095 BKN110 05/M10
A2981 RMK SLP112
CYLH 171800Z AUTO 17006KT 150V220 9SM CLR 05/M10 A2982 RMK
SLP115
CYLH 171700Z AUTO 18009KT 130V210 9SM FEW110 03/M09 A2984 RMK
SLP120

[Firebird67]

contaminated fuel?

[Surfer Dude]

Does anyone know what lake that is that it's resting on? I assume they took off on runway 09 because it was more into wind and according to the CFS there is a fairly steep grade going up runway 27. But I don't see any lakes close to the departure end of 09. Unless they took off and made a hard left turn and then ended up on Pickle Lake itself.

[Cat Driver]

It is a bit difficult to see clearly but it looks like the left props may have been feathered.

Anyone here know its single engine performance?

[goingnowherefast]

Lansdowne House 96nm ENE.

CYLH 171900Z AUTO 18012KT 130V200 9SM SCT095 BKN110 05/M10
A2981 RMK SLP112
CYLH 171800Z AUTO 17006KT 150V220 9SM CLR 05/M10 A2982 RMK
SLP115
CYLH 171700Z AUTO 18009KT 130V210 9SM FEW110 03/M09 A2984 RMK
SLP120

Take-off alternates need to meet take-off alternate criteria. AKA forecasts, and Lansdowne doesn't have a TAF unfortunately. Would it have met GFA alternate? I don't have access to GFAs that old.

[pelmet]

It is a bit difficult to see clearly but it looks like the left props may have been feathered.

Anyone here know its single engine performance?

Looked to me like it might have been feathered as well.

"Why would the pilots of a twin engine turbo prop transport category airplane need to force land on a lake with the gear up?"

If there was an engine failure, I will be curious to know more about the aircraft gross weight at the time of takeoff and single engine performance capability.

[Cat Driver]

If there was an engine failure, I will be curious to know more about the aircraft gross weight at the time of takeoff and single engine performance capability.

Exactly.

[cggnl]

CYLH was fine on the 18Z GFA, Not good on the 00Z GFA.

[rkwik]

Considering it has an MTOW of well over 28 thousand pounds and a seat capacity of 38. I'd say it's definitely a transport category aircraft.

Must be that high density Asian seating version..!

[Bacunayagua]

Considering it has an MTOW of well over 28 thousand pounds and a seat capacity of 38. I'd say it's definitely a transport category aircraft.

Must be that high density Asian seating version..!

Considering the normal DC-3 can carry up to 32 passengers and the Basler has a stretched fuselage, I'd hardly say it's the "high density asian version". According to Baslers website, MTOW is actually 30 thousand pounds. Maybe Cargo North doesn't install as many seats as they are able to but that doesn't take away from the fact that it is a transport aircraft. Fedex 757s and DC-10s don't stop being transport aircraft just because they only have two seats.

[valleyboy]

The fact is it's operated under a waiver for 704 operations, restricted to 18 pax or less and with 9 or less you are allow 1 hour normal cruise all engines operating, MGTW is 30,000 upgrossed from the original 28750 and landing wt is 28750 so upgrossing is based on landing weight meaning flight needs to be close to 11/2 hours to take off at 30 grand. Engines are derated so for upgrossed t/o over torquing to 111% is allowed for 5 minutes -- any other questions - oh ya it appears to be on Pickle Lake from looking at the photo. It will be interesting to hear the findings -- no use speculating - it could have been worse and there a 2 or 3 guys (depending if it were freight or bulk fuel) walking around and telling the story, that's always a good thing. Whatever happed, good job boys !!!!!

[crazyaviator]

Feathered the wrong prop???

[Stretcher]

I've looked at a closeup picture of the left engine and it does appear to be feathered.

[ruddersup?]

From my armchair I would agree with Crazy, feathered wrong prop. With a runaway fuel control I've seen the good engine feathered. Yaw tells you which one is failing, oops. No time to think at that altitude either.

[Surfer Dude]

any other questions

Which runway did they takeoff from?

[valleyboy]

Damn auto feather systems will feather the wrong prop every time I can't believe how guys pulls stuff out of their ass. Looking back at the wx reports and flat light I would say there were some pretty amazing stick and rudder skills demonstrated but keeping with the mood of the majority here(because it feels better to find out that it's pilot error and not something out of your control, because we are always better and I could handle it, mentality nothing seems to terify us more than a condition we have no control over) -- I say march the guilty bastirds in and line them up against the wall - NOT -- damn, what a group

[Stretcher]

Left.jpg (77.83 KiB) Viewed 3505 times

[CLguy]

How about, departure off 09, engine failure right after take off, left turn downwind to return to 09 and couldn't maintain so landed on Pickle Lake gear up and everyone walks away. Sounds probable to me!