Flight Instructing as a hobby/side-gig

[photofly]

True, but you need to give them something to keep them interested in working for low wages.

I think you should treat both your instructors and your customers with respect, which means in the first case paying a decent rate, and in the second case, working hard to find the best possible instructors. But I concede that I'm old fashioned and know nothing, and that in an industry where the customer is the least knowledgeable person in the room, that giving that customer anything they'll be content with is the done thing.

[5x5]

True, but you need to give them something to keep them interested in working for low wages.

I think you should treat both your instructors and your customers with respect, which means in the first case paying a decent rate, and in the second case, working hard to find the best possible instructors. But I concede that I'm old fashioned and know nothing, and that in an industry where the customer is the least knowledgeable person in the room, that giving that customer anything they'll be content with is the done thing.

I believe that is what most people try to do - treat employees and customers with respect. However, reality invades the ideal and we have to then step back from lofty platitudes and deal with that reality.

I certainly don't think you know nothing as it's obvious in many of your posts that you are very knowledgeable especially regarding regulations, but I do wonder if you've ever owned and operated a flight school - or any other business for that matter. Please don't take my comments as a challenge or an attempt to discredit you, as that's not what I intended. It's merely me musing (as I do anytime I read anonymous forums) about the background and experience of other posters.

On a side note, in any business, if the customer is content, is that business doing a bad job?

[photofly]

True, but you need to give them something to keep them interested in working for low wages.

I think you should treat both your instructors and your customers with respect, which means in the first case paying a decent rate, and in the second case, working hard to find the best possible instructors. But I concede that I'm old fashioned and know nothing, and that in an industry where the customer is the least knowledgeable person in the room, that giving that customer anything they'll be content with is the done thing.

I believe that is what most people try to do - treat employees and customers with respect.

Not my experience.

However, reality invades the ideal and we have to then step back from lofty platitudes and deal with that reality.

I don't accept that treating customers and employees with respect - is a lofty ideal that needs to be sacrificed during a reality invasion.

On a side note, in any business, if the customer is content, is that business doing a bad job?

So... it's not a scam unless and until the customer finds out they've been scammed?

[digits_]

I think you should treat both your instructors and your customers with respect, which means in the first case paying a decent rate, and in the second case, working hard to find the best possible instructors. But I concede that I'm old fashioned and know nothing, and that in an industry where the customer is the least knowledgeable person in the room, that giving that customer anything they'll be content with is the done thing.

I believe that is what most people try to do - treat employees and customers with respect.

Not my experience.

However, reality invades the ideal and we have to then step back from lofty platitudes and deal with that reality.

I don't accept that treating customers and employees with respect - is a lofty ideal that needs to be sacrificed during a reality invasion.

On a side note, in any business, if the customer is content, is that business doing a bad job?

So... it's not a scam unless and until the customer finds out they've been scammed?

There's a difference between what companies/people are realistically doing, what they can do in a realistic economic climate, and what the ideal would be.

Ideally instructors would make the same as other pilot career avenues, so we'd have real career instructors, highly experienced, getting their students their licenses in minimum time while maximizing their skills.

What's possible in a realistic economic climate is paying instructors an above minimum wage salary, create a nice atmosphere with proper scheduling, and supporting them with student conflicts. Pay a bit more for experience. Students would have one main instructor, perhaps a couple other extra ones to follow up on their progress.

Reality is that instructors get paid a low flight hourly wage, make often less than minimum wage, and get dangled carrots of multi time to suck up the below par conditions. They'll likely leave before the average student gets their CPL.

We can discuss the possible and ideal scenarios, but today's instructors have to deal with today's realities. An instructor only being able to teach ME/IFR will likely not be perceived as valuable as they could be in an ideal scenario.

I'm sure there are a few flight schools in Canada nowadays that are in the middle category, some even in the top category (saw an ad for a class 1 instructor with a 90k salary recently), but most are likely in the bottom category.

[photofly]

What's possible in a realistic economic climate is paying instructors an above minimum wage salary, create a nice atmosphere with proper scheduling, and supporting them with student conflicts. Pay a bit more for experience. Students would have one main instructor, perhaps a couple other extra ones to follow up on their progress.

And you know this isn't possible ... how?

[5x5]

I think you should treat both your instructors and your customers with respect, which means in the first case paying a decent rate, and in the second case, working hard to find the best possible instructors. But I concede that I'm old fashioned and know nothing, and that in an industry where the customer is the least knowledgeable person in the room, that giving that customer anything they'll be content with is the done thing.

I believe that is what most people try to do - treat employees and customers with respect.

Not my experience.

However, reality invades the ideal and we have to then step back from lofty platitudes and deal with that reality.

I don't accept that treating customers and employees with respect - is a lofty ideal that needs to be sacrificed during a reality invasion.

On a side note, in any business, if the customer is content, is that business doing a bad job?

So... it's not a scam unless and until the customer finds out they've been scammed?

I guess we're on different wavelengths. Reality simply exists and has to be dealt with.

If a customer leaves satisfied with what they received, as evidenced by them paying for it - is that not a display of satisfaction? Certainly in almost any commercial transaction the buyer would gladly take more than the seller is offering for the stated price. Or pay less for what is being offered. But it's hard for me to see where the scam is when customers continue to pay the requested price and leave with the expected product/service over a lengthy time period.

Certainly when customers realize they've been scammed, or when a company doesn't treat its employees and customers with respect, that's when unscrupulous businesses go out of business.

[photofly]

Certainly when customers realize they've been scammed, or when a company doesn't treat its employees and customers with respect, that's when unscrupulous businesses go out of business.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. The world is full of wildly successful unscrupulous businesses.

[digits_]

What's possible in a realistic economic climate is paying instructors an above minimum wage salary, create a nice atmosphere with proper scheduling, and supporting them with student conflicts. Pay a bit more for experience. Students would have one main instructor, perhaps a couple other extra ones to follow up on their progress.

And you know this isn't possible ... how?

?

My claim is that it is possible (some schools do it), yet that there is a significant amount of schools out there that don't do it.

[photofly]

I think we got here from someone saying that the OP should expect no flight school to want him as an experienced ME/IR instructor because it would put the ab-initio junior instructors' noses out of joint.

If that was the position that any FTU took, they would be doing the OP a favour by not employing him.

[digits_]

I think we got here from someone saying that the OP should expect no flight school to want him as an experienced ME/IR instructor because it would put the ab-initio junior instructors' noses out of joint.

If that was the position that any FTU took, they would be doing the OP a favour by not employing him.

Both the premise and your conclusion would be absolutely true!

[goldeneagle]

I would suggest the OP get the rating then use it to teach with the air cadets in the power program. S/He would likely be a good fit for them