Airplane into building in Richmond.

snoopy · Post by **snoopy** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:12 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/bc/features/richmond-plane-crash/

Looking at the map, whatever happened was likely not that long after departure off if either 08 or 12 were used.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:22 pm

Aircraft rarely use 12 for departure out of YVR. I would think they were off of 08R.

I hope they didn't lose it trying to turn back - they were only 1 block away from a big field on the east side off Garden City.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=firef ... &z=16&om=1

oldtimer · Post by **oldtimer** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:28 pm

Does the Seneca, like the Arrow, have an automatic gear extender?
I flew a Seneca 2 many moons ago and I cannot remember.
If it was a Seneca 2, it would be turbocharged and one thing I do remember about the airplane was that it had excellent OEI performance.

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:43 pm

I flew a Seneca 3 a fair bit when I did my multi.

The 2 I believe came in two flavors the 220 and the 220T one being turboed the other naturally aspirated, now i could be wrong about that, I do however know for sure that the 1 was naturally aspirated and had crap for single engine performance. The 3 that I flew had decent single engine and had turbos on it.

Looking at the map looks like ATC may have given a right turn to ZBB putting them over where they where. Essentially sending them over the Deas tunnel. If they where headed to Pitt, I don't think they would have been turned.

At any rate this is way way too close to home, I know quite a few Seneca drivers out of the Vancouver area...

GottaFly · Post by **GottaFly** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:45 pm

If in fact that is C-GHFD, i witnessed it fly into the fence at Pitt Meadows on the approach to 26L about a year and a half ago. I've since met the owner of the aircraft and i sincerely hope he wasn't on board at the time of this accident. My deepest regrets and appologies go to the family.

rsandor · Post by **rsandor** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:00 pm

There are some rumours on another forum that the landing gear was not coming down, and the pilot was circling to burn off gas before landing.

Does this make sense to any of you? Cuz it doesn't to me...

I dunno, it just seems really weird how the plane could have gotten itself into that situation... I'm sure there's a simple explaination, but I have no idea what it might be..

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:03 pm

Up the thread does it not say the gear was down? And I would think if they where landing 08s in YVR they would have him circle out over the water in the Steveston area so he could do a quick right base to landing when he decided he was ready.

GottaFly · Post by **GottaFly** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 10:22 pm

the media has been having a hayday with all these airliners having gear problems at YVR in the last little while. Pasco and Air China in the same day a few weeks ago, and then I think the next day it was an Air Canada A320. Methinks it was the media jumping to conclusions again. Earlier in this feed someone mentioned the aircraft being parked at Aviat Esso earilier that day.

xsbank · Post by **xsbank** » Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:06 pm

The roof of the Richmond Centre is large enough to land a small jet...

invertedattitude · Post by **invertedattitude** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:06 am

Little to no fire damage on impact, burned off a bit too much fuel?

broompusher · Post by **broompusher** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:14 am

Has anyone been able to find the ATC feed? That would certainly clear up a few questions and speculations. I looked on liveatc.net but the feed for the time of the accident is not currently available.

My condolences to the family, friends and co workers of those involved

Rowdy · Post by **Rowdy** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:44 am

A girl I used to date called me up and told me what she'd heard (happened to be about a block away when it happened) said it sounded like the aircraft had gone to full power and it "sounded like it was on one engine before I heard a crash" she called me just shortly after 4..

The media has done a fine job of skewing all the facts so far. Doesn't suprise me. Other than a couple of the flight schools I know at ZBB who operates senecas? private? or?

Regardless.. my thoughts and condolences go out to the friends and family of the lost pilot.

Expat · Post by **Expat** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:47 am

Another twin that cruised to the crash site?

Justwannafly · Post by **Justwannafly** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:21 am

Rowdy wrote:The media has done a fine job of skewing all the facts so far. Doesn't suprise me.

You mean to tell me that there is no such thing as a twin Cessna 172 like one report I heard?

80% of the time the press get's it 90% wrong

bob sacamano · Post by **bob sacamano** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:38 am

Rowdy wrote:A girl I used to date called me up and told me what she'd heard (happened to be about a block away when it happened) said it sounded like the aircraft had gone to full power and it "sounded like it was on one engine before I heard a crash" she called me just shortly after 4..

The media has done a fine job of skewing all the facts so far. Doesn't suprise me. Other than a couple of the flight schools I know at ZBB who operates senecas? private? or?

Wow, your ex is good.

rigpiggy · Post by **rigpiggy** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:56 am

According to the registry, hfd is a 1972 pa34-200. this would be unturboed, unless stc'd at sea level that shouldn't have been a problem. Rampant speculation won't really help, however maybe they'll stop building hirises around yvr.

the PA-34-200 Twin 6, first flew in October 1969 with fuel injected 150kW (200hp) IO-360s. Production deliveries of the initial PA-34-200 Seneca began in late 1971.

Handling and performance criticisms were addressed from the 1974 model year with the PA-34-200T Seneca II which introduced changes to the flight controls and, more importantly, two turbocharged Continental TSIO-360

I was there when c-gvof crashed just short of the dyke on approach to 30. it hit the soil preload for a new condo complex going in, bounced and hit the power lines.

AirAddict · Post by **AirAddict** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 7:16 am

I know for a fact there were no Sennecas at the Avitat that day...

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:42 am

isn't a 200 a seneca 2 and a 220 a seneca 3?

200hr Wonder · Post by **200hr Wonder** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:49 am

Yes but it is a 200T if it is Turbocharged.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 8:54 am

Aren't all 200's turbo charged?

I thought the 1 was the only non-turbo seneca?

MichaelP · Post by **MichaelP** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 9:49 am

I don't like the way the media report these things...

But the fact that some of you resort to very poor use of the English language using words like the F*** word makes me wonder about the people who write on this forum.

So on the one hand you've got the media and their bad reporting, and on the other pilots who profess to be professionals but can't write in a decent manner.

Some of you need soap in your mouths, and your keyboards.

The fact is someone lost control and hit a building in an aeroplane.
We should show professional respect and not give the media a hint that we might be anything less than educated respectful people.

Lost in Saigon · Post by **Lost in Saigon** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:13 pm

Piper Seneca variants:

http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=308

the_professor · Post by **the_professor** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:17 pm

MichaelP wrote: The fact is someone lost control and hit a building in an aeroplane.
We should show professional respect and not give the media a hint that we might be anything less than educated respectful people.

In that case, you're going to have to get the mods to delete all the archived threads on here too.

Alex YCV · Post by **Alex YCV** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 12:50 pm

rsandor wrote:

Not hard to see the angle that the plane went in, right wing down about 30-40 degrees. I think we aren't seeing much of the plane because it looks like the bulk of the plane hit above and below floors, which means that it probably went all the way in until it hit something solid, like maybe the wall between the units or an interior post.

The angle wouldn't seem to suggest a plane dropping nose down out of the sky through... hmm.

Hapless · Post by **Hapless** » Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:56 pm

From a friends coworker who saw the A/C at Shell that day. Was on the ramp watching this unfold...

-Pilot started L/H engine
-4 starts made on R/H engine before it ran. Previous 3 starts ran, but for less than 10 seconds.
-run up performed at wide hotel
-a/c depated, noticed hard yaw to right
-coninued close to ground not climbing until a/c disappeared from his point of view at the Shell.

Sounds like R/H engine troubles to me.

Thoughts and Condolences to friends and loved ones.