There are a couple of schools out here who have excellent teachers, I do not want to name them because this forum is not meant to be for free advertising.
But you can PM me and I will answer the question.
Float Rating or bush course?
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, Rudder Bug
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
Charles: do you think that "Canada" cares if you were to teach some kid how to fly a "sea plane"? doubt it. 50hrs is 50hrs, get a job and learn!! you arn't going to learn the day to day operations by buying 50 hrs of float time for $15,000, and I'm sure it will not move you up the " latter of sucsess" any faster(at a good company). what would be so different in your schoool?, and how much would it cost me for a ride in a sea plane from the great one himself?(.). I thought you were against "buying a job". please explain to me what the difference is betwwen what you would have offerd compared to a ppc on a be-200? I would think it's only money! 
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
Whether it's right or wrong, paying for a bush course will give you an edge when your starting out. Mind you it won't be much of an edge at all if your paying 15 grand to some dude with a bare 300 hours on floats as username: and others have alluded too..
To give you an idea on where I'm coming from on this I'll share my own experience. I did mine privately 7 years ago with a guy who operated his own camps. Through him I obtained a float rating and 60 hours on a 185. On top of that he also taught this city-boy all about propane and solar systems, boat motors, water pumps, and basically everything to do with the day to day running of the camps. He was well connected in the area and before I was even finished I had a job lined up through him with another operator. This was during the slow period post 9/11 and out of my flight college class of 30, only 6 of us landed jobs within a year of graduating. Initially I avoided getting my multi-IFR and used that money instead to pay for my 'bush course' which at the time cost me around $8000. Once I became established as a seasonal float pilot, I used my seasonal EI benefits to pay for my multi-IFR rating.
The other benefit of a good bush course being taught by a guy who knows the ropes is that your allowed to screw up and it won't be reflected on you professionally. That way when you start your first job you'll hopefully have your head screwed on straight and can avoid some of the more poignant rookie mistakes (avoid some, not all!). Couple this with a good hard work ethic and you'll have a pretty polished reputation.
To give you an idea on where I'm coming from on this I'll share my own experience. I did mine privately 7 years ago with a guy who operated his own camps. Through him I obtained a float rating and 60 hours on a 185. On top of that he also taught this city-boy all about propane and solar systems, boat motors, water pumps, and basically everything to do with the day to day running of the camps. He was well connected in the area and before I was even finished I had a job lined up through him with another operator. This was during the slow period post 9/11 and out of my flight college class of 30, only 6 of us landed jobs within a year of graduating. Initially I avoided getting my multi-IFR and used that money instead to pay for my 'bush course' which at the time cost me around $8000. Once I became established as a seasonal float pilot, I used my seasonal EI benefits to pay for my multi-IFR rating.
The other benefit of a good bush course being taught by a guy who knows the ropes is that your allowed to screw up and it won't be reflected on you professionally. That way when you start your first job you'll hopefully have your head screwed on straight and can avoid some of the more poignant rookie mistakes (avoid some, not all!). Couple this with a good hard work ethic and you'll have a pretty polished reputation.
-
Chuck Ellsworth
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3074
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
- Location: Always moving
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
Ahhhh here we go again, comments from someone who can't even construct a paragraph that would meet the standards of a grade four student.Charles: do you think that "Canada" cares if you were to teach some kid how to fly a "sea plane"? doubt it. 50hrs is 50hrs, get a job and learn!! you arn't going to learn the day to day operations by buying 50 hrs of float time for $15,000, and I'm sure it will not move you up the " latter of sucsess" any faster(at a good company). what would be so different in your schoool?, and how much would it cost me for a ride in a sea plane from the great one himself?(.). I thought you were against "buying a job". please explain to me what the difference is betwwen what you would have offerd compared to a ppc on a be-200? I would think it's only money!
For you guys who are interested in getting advice that is of value to you in your up comming career in aviation I suggest you read all the posts by buster79 and decide if he / she should be your benchmark for valuable advice to better your career.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
Your post was great Slats, but I would point out that you yourself said-
I've got a question though ... if you do a fifty hr course, does it include underwater egress training?
Might be part of the reason a 50 hr course wasn't necessary to give you a leg up.Slats wrote:I was hired over guys with 100+ hours on floats because of two great references from people in my corner who just so happened to know the CP.
I've got a question though ... if you do a fifty hr course, does it include underwater egress training?
Former Advocate for Floatplane Safety
-
FlyingFiremenC/PGSon
- Rank 1
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2007 12:46 am
- Location: Cariboo BC
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
I think the reality of the situation is that some people find learning by direct experience to be to their best interest. They can take on the day to day tasks of a field job without much guidance and moreover their instincts are reliable enough to carry them through situations and circumstances that prove difficult and taxing on their abilities. Others are not so well equipped and require instruction to be competent. I would say that the need for such a course would be totally dependent on the skill set and natural ability of the given pilot and not based on the cost. Every job in the world requires investment of one sort or another if one is to get ahead or into a position that satisfies the employee... That being said I don't think I would go out on a limb and spend 15g without doing a lot of soul searching and market research for the coming season.
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
I agree with the posters who say the 50 hours is better. Yes, you may know someone to give you a leg up but many of us didn't. I took the 50 hour course and glad i did. The first job I got hired me because the time I had on floats. Did I learn a lot more in the real world of flying- of course I did. Building hours is expensive when we are training. We have to spend money to build the hours anyway so why not spend some of it on floatplane training which is applicable to the employment we are looking for. We all start off as low-time pilots. Anything to give you an advantage. I am sure some guys get lucky without it but how can anyone argue that more hours is not better.
-
Chuck Ellsworth
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3074
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
- Location: Always moving
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
I would like to point out another assumption by this poster who seems to like to criticize and downgrade others who at least want to try and help young pilots get their first job.
I have though on many instances said it was my plan to offer the most affordable rates I could do the training for.
My plan was to charge at the most $180.00 per hour for dual instruction on floats. Therefore you would have flown 80 hours for $15,000.00 not 50.
If it was the money that I was after I would simply keep doing the training I was doing on sea planes before I retired.
At no time have I stated that my intention was to offer flying training based on a definitive time for the course.Charles: do you think that "Canada" cares if you were to teach some kid how to fly a "sea plane"? doubt it. 50hrs is 50hrs, get a job and learn!! you arn't going to learn the day to day operations by buying 50 hrs of float time for $15,000,
I have though on many instances said it was my plan to offer the most affordable rates I could do the training for.
My plan was to charge at the most $180.00 per hour for dual instruction on floats. Therefore you would have flown 80 hours for $15,000.00 not 50.
If it was the money that I was after I would simply keep doing the training I was doing on sea planes before I retired.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
That was my point, to some extent. In alot of cases getting hired as a low timer is more about WHO you know rather than WHAT you know, which, let's face it: at that stage of your career, it's pretty much nothing. Point is, I wouldn't have had those references if I hadn't been out there working in whatever capacity I could within the industry. Sounds like the time worked out well for Mr. North, but still making those connections and networking sounded like a pretty important piece of the puzzle in that situation as well.Widow wrote:Your post was great Slats, but I would point out that you yourself said-Might be part of the reason a 50 hr course wasn't necessary to give you a leg up.Slats wrote:I was hired over guys with 100+ hours on floats because of two great references from people in my corner who just so happened to know the CP.
I've got a question though ... if you do a fifty hr course, does it include underwater egress training?
Excellent idea widow, I did the egress course with Brian a couple years ago......I wish I could do it every spring. Far far better to spend the couple hundred bucks on that than an hour of training in an airplane.
-
Chuck Ellsworth
- Rank 11
- Posts: 3074
- Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:49 am
- Location: Always moving
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
I don't understand your thought process in that statement, are you suggesting that it is better to know how to get out of a float plane you just turned upside down in the water rather that have learned how not to have turned it upside down by getting proper training?Far far better to spend the couple hundred bucks on that than an hour of training in an airplane.
The most difficult thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying I can not remember even one trip that I refused to do that resulted in someone getting killed because of my decision not to fly.
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
Nope, you're overthinking it .. Just saying I'd rather pay for the egress course rather than one single hour of training, since the cost of the egress is probably roughly the same as one single hour of training. Essentially I'm saying I'd rather have 49 hours and the egress course as opposed to just 50 hours.....if I felt compelled to go that route, but we all know my feelings on that by now I'm sure.
I very seriously doubt that one extra hour in the plane is gonna make or break a float pilot, but that egress course, I'm convinced, saves lives.
I very seriously doubt that one extra hour in the plane is gonna make or break a float pilot, but that egress course, I'm convinced, saves lives.
-
Cat Driver
- Top Poster
- Posts: 18921
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:31 pm
Re: Float Rating or bush course?
I kind of thought that was what you meant and you are right.
I very seriously doubt that one extra hour in the plane is gonna make or break a float pilot, but that egress course, I'm convinced, saves lives.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
