United Express (opr by Trans States) runway overrun in YOW

[GyvAir]

TSB report out:

http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-repor ... 1H0003.asp

[Brantford Beech Boy]

Huh,
unstabilized approach and non-adherrance to SOPs....

Where have I heard that recently?

BBB

[Liquid Charlie]

Nations capital and not even a cat2 runway -only in Canader you say-pity

[KK7]

Nations capital and not even a cat2 runway -only in Canader you say-pity

Ottawa is not busy enough nor is the weather often poor enough to require a CAT II.

[Liquid Charlie]

Ottawa is not busy enough nor is the weather often poor enough to require a CAT II.

that has to be one of the silliest replies i have ever read and I must say typical canadian aviation thinking -- spend millions on putting shops and bars into an airport terminal and not spend a cent on improving operational facilities -- like a grooved runway and a cat 2 landing -- seems that places like Europe figure it's good policy and airports far less busy that Ottawa have it -- I'm sure wpg has no more "bad"wx than ottawa -- go figure -- only in canader -- silly

[Go Guns]

spend millions on putting shops and bars into an airport terminal and not spend a cent on improving operational facilities

While I agree to your line of thought, it's not relevant to this incident.

[Liquid Charlie]

While I agree to your line of thought, it's not relevant to this incident.

-- I did mention grooved runway

[swordfish]

Ottawa is not busy enough nor is the weather often poor enough to require a CAT II.

that has to be one of the silliest replies i have ever read and I must say typical canadian aviation thinking -- spend millions on putting shops and bars into an airport terminal and not spend a cent on improving operational facilities -- like a grooved runway and a cat 2 landing -- seems that places like Europe figure it's good policy and airports far less busy that Ottawa have it -- I'm sure wpg has no more "bad"wx than ottawa -- go figure -- only in canader -- silly

+1
In Europe almost every village, town, and city has an ILS and most of the larger cities are set up with Cat IIIb facilities. After the ILS is installed, the associated ground infrastructure is the least expensive part of it. Tho it will take NavCanada 2 years to publish the plate...

[linecrew]

While I agree to your line of thought, it's not relevant to this incident.

-- I did mention grooved runway

The airport has never had grooved runways since they were built back in the 50's and you'd be hard pressed to find incidents of aircraft sliding off (outside of winter ops) except in the last handful of years.

Are some modern aircraft like the early model ERJs not able to handle this type of runway surface? Is it the calibre of crews flying in there? I just don't get how this has 'suddenly' become a problem.

[CpnCrunch]

It seems odd to select maximum thrust for 7 seconds at 5 feet AGL. Shouldn't they have either just let the aircraft settle onto the runway, or else fully committed to a go-around?

[flyinhigh]

Lack of experience is the reason here. 2 reasons that stand out are;

1. In a storm with high winds they selected full flap coming through 1000'. Now your changing configuration in deteriorating weather conditions. Can anyone say unstable approach already.

2. Max reverse selected while aircraft is in the air. (Selected max reverse at 5' agl for 7 seconds), sry you hit reverse while in the air....If you wanna do this do a go around, obviously your already worried.

[av8ts]

Lack of experience is the reason here. 2 reasons that stand out are;

1. In a storm with high winds they selected full flap coming through 1000'. Now your changing configuration in deteriorating weather conditions. Can anyone say unstable approach already.

2. Max reverse selected while aircraft is in the air. (Selected max reverse at 5' agl for 7 seconds), sry you hit reverse while in the air....If you wanna do this do a go around, obviously your already worried.

I think that was max thrust not max reverse thrust

[CpnCrunch]

Lack of experience is the reason here. 2 reasons that stand out are;

1. In a storm with high winds they selected full flap coming through 1000'. Now your changing configuration in deteriorating weather conditions. Can anyone say unstable approach already.

2. Max reverse selected while aircraft is in the air. (Selected max reverse at 5' agl for 7 seconds), sry you hit reverse while in the air....If you wanna do this do a go around, obviously your already worried.

I think that was max thrust not max reverse thrust

Yes, and the report says the aircraft wasn't equipped with reverse thrust (and that was a factor in the overrun).

[Donald]

While I agree to your line of thought, it's not relevant to this incident.

-- I did mention grooved runway

The airport has never had grooved runways since they were built back in the 50's and you'd be hard pressed to find incidents of aircraft sliding off (outside of winter ops) except in the last handful of years.

07/25 is in fact grooved, it was done after it was re-paved recently.

And it has made a tremendous difference on rainy days.

[linecrew]

07/25 is in fact grooved, it was done after it was re-paved recently.

And it has made a tremendous difference on rainy days.

Yeah...they grooved it because the *same company* ran an exact same type of aircraft off the end of Runway 07 in 2010: http://www.tsb.gc.ca/eng/medias-media/c ... 130613.asp

I still question how this is now suddenly considered a huge safety enhancement when, up until just recently, aircraft operated safely on these runways without the aid of grooving for several decades.