Forces in the air

[old_man]

Negative G....I was taught to just relax my body the best I could. Not to tense up. Breath normally and not hold my breathe. I found it actually worked.

[Colonel Sanders]

Positive G tolerance is easy - lift weights

Negative G is weird. Relax and build it
Very slowly - an additional 1/2 neg G at
A time

Start with straight and level inverted for
Longer and longer lengths of time

The start with inverted turns, increasing
The bank angle.

Then do pushes to 45 up, then level off
Inverted again

Then push through the vertical for a
1/2 outside cuban 8 to the upright 45
Down, and pull level to upright

Finally complete the second half of the
Outside Loop - watch the increasing
Airspeed and increasing neg G!

Don't hammer the neg G too fast
Otherwise you will tear up your
Inner ear with the Wobblies.

[rapid602]

First of all when I was about 10 years old I got to sit on the real Colonel Sanders knee, wish I had a picture of that.

Second I got to watch Bob Hoover Fly at Oshkosh, what a treat, saw him fly a yellow P51 as well I think, seemed to rememebr the name Rockwell on the side. Non the less, made me feel inferior as a pilot and still do.

Question here is ... Does anyone ever admit to spilly water, lemonade etc, practicing that manouver. Infact, I would bet Bob Hoover spilled some. If anyone knows him please find out.

I am not a memebr of the wet crotch club as I think that aerobatics are much prettier to watch from on the ground, and I love and appreciate the people who perform them.
I never ever tried the manouver, and do not have the desire to drown myself trying it.

[MIQ]

Negative G....I was taught to just relax my body the best I could. Not to tense up. Breath normally and not hold my breathe. I found it actually worked.

Thank you, that makes sense and I will try to do that next time.

Positive G tolerance is easy - lift weights

I'm lifting weights on a regular basis, I guess that's why I have no problem at all with positive G's. Thank you for the other tips, I'm not doing any aerobatics just yet. I actually respect aerobatics a lot and would also be one of the people who'd rather appreciate it from the ground but I think one day I should try it and take an aerobatic course or something.

[Colonel Sanders]

No one actually likes negative G

Many people hate it

But the aircraft will do it

And either you're the type of pilot who will
Do everything in the Vg diagram, or you're
Not.

Hard to explain.

It's an acquired taste!

[rapid602]

Interesting statement by the Colonel, I went to Oshkosh a few times, I fell in love with the Pitts, I thought it was the prettiest aircraft ever, till I saw a Christian Eagle, and it was love all over again.

I have wanted to build one for years, and if I had the $$$ I did not need it, I would own one, and yet would probably never stress the joints on it, I have been inverted, straight up and down, + & -,
and yet I think the best way to fly is dirty side down... but love to watch aerobatics all day long from the GROUND.

[cgzro]

negative G tollerance... sounds silly but put a pillow on the floor and do a headstand against the wall.
close your eyes and relax see how long you can do it.
Easy way to get -1G.

Notice how you feel dizzy when you return to +1g!

Youll notice it sometimes in the morning in bed flat you are basically 0g between heart and head and you blood pressure lowers to compensate. Then if you stand up quickly you get dizzy because your heart does not ramp up fast enough.

Same problem in aerobatics. If you do neg G your heart will naturally lower the pressure as best it can but if you then flip to +g too fast your blood pressure cannot come up fast enough and you will gloc fast.

Outside loop followed by inside is especially hard as can be rolling turns +4/-4 alternating.

[rapid602]

I fly Lear Jets in MicroSoft Flight Sim X all day long, do approaches, and shoot ILS, to 100 feet just to do it. I have 2550 Hours in lots of aircraft. And 1400 hours in one aircraft with a nasty safety record. And yet the Aerobatic Aircraft in the flight simulator humbles the shit out of me. I try and do it because I suck at it .... and I can roll it all day but sooner than later I end up crashing the thing. The score is like 100 take off's ... 5 landings and 95 crashes. Maybe if I could feel the g I could fly it better. So to you guys who like flying on knife edge, pushing your eye balls out, you have my respect.

I try to do 4 and 8 point rolls to improve my touch... so to the Snow Birds Demonstration Team doing the nine plane roll. That is one of the most graceful things I have ever seen aircraft do. G's are fun till you grey out.... but -g just feels so unnatural.... I hate the feeling .... its like standing in the pouring rain.....

[Beefitarian]

In your defense rapid, being able to glance over your shoulder to see where the earth is would change things also. A big difference between flightsim and a real plane for me is when I land there's no ground motion beside me to give peripheral clues to my height and speed.

[cgzro]

but -g just feels so unnatural.... I hate the feeling .... its like standing in the pouring rain.....

Yes its a bit strange for sure and of course you can hurt yourself quite badly if you are not careful. Its possible to burst a blood vessle in the brain or more commonly in the eyes. Sometimes you see pilots with a red eye after a bit too much negative G.

Positive G .. well apart from passing out, worse you get is what some people call gzles which are like tons of red spots on your legs from tiny burst blood vessles.

Good thing its fun.

Concerning the simulators .. simulator based aerobatics is a waste of time in my experience, even those that go upside down. Acro is 99.9% external feedback with just the occasional glance at an airspeed or altimeter. Currently the simulators just don't recreate the panormaic view you have doing aerobatics or the G's or the sensation of speed, buffet etc. that you need to do it properly. They also don't seem to simulate spins/snaps or gyroscopic/p-factor etc. effects much if at all and those are pretty darn impotant. Anyway don't feel bad I can't fly the Pitts in the simulators either despite having tons of time in them for real.

One thing I did used to find useful was to go into a swimming pool, get about 5 feet under water and do forward flips, or backward flips, stop, reverse, then roll yourself etc. You can really get disoriented quickly this way and it can be helpful to sort out the orientations you get in a plane.

[rapid602]

I have to do it in the sim, cause there is no reason to go out and bend a perfectly good aircraft. wierd thing is in microsoft flight sim there is an F18 and I fly that thing like a pro, You would almost think I graduated from TOP GUN ( that was a movie with Tom Cruise for the younger pilots) and I really do not try and fly it any different than that little Ultra. That thing make me look like I have been around airplanes for 10 minutes.

(Question) I was in Kitchener about two weeks ago and there happened to be a pitts in the circut. I could have stood there and watched it all day. There is a Blue Single Place Pitts in Kitchener Aero's hanger and I rememeber it there years ago when we had an aircraft in there for some radio work. I don't think the thing has flown in 20 years or more and I hear the guy, I think he is a Doctor WILL NOT SELL IT.
Does anyone know the story on that aircraft?

[Colonel Sanders]

I've never flown a sim worth a damn

When someone makes a sim which is
Aerodynamically correct with 360 view
And will give you +/- 10G, give me a holler

PS Don't buy the Pitts that hasn't flown.
It is not an aircraft - it is a project

It needs a new engine and fabric, the
Total cost of which exceeds its value
After you do them.

Any Lycoming which has sat for a year
Without pickling is garbage due to internal
Corrosion.

Owners never, ever pickle. They all want
To destroy their cams, lifters and cylinder
Walls.

It's so bad, Lyc has introduced roller
Tappets to try to help with the problem.