The Air Canada OTS thread

[beaver1986]

i got pfo'd after 4 days from my video interview.... based on 18 questions that had to be answered with a yes or no, and 4 open questions.
how can you evaluate someone just like that?
i have aviation degree, glass cockpit and jet experience and 5000hrs total and have been working in the Air Canada express for 4 years.
i bet that if i have had one of my parents working there it would have been different...
I say that because i have evidences that people with less than 2 years in the aircanada express and with parents in AC were interviewed and hired (to be eligible for the interview, the PML agreement states "min 2 years").
NICE JOB TO BE THE ICONIC SYMBOL OF THE COUNTRY!

If someone went over under 2 years and it was found out.. It would instantly be grieved and most likely result in a lawsuit. I highly doubt the bright folk at AC's HR would create such chaos.. and added cost. This whole program was established to reduce cost..

I'll call your bluff though.. I'm at an express carrier and have a parent at AC (pilot). It has done nothing for me. I have post sec. I am fluent in french. +5k. two crew, MPIC and all that other stuff.. I did the video interview in december and have heard nothing back. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

One of my childhood friends is also at an express carrier and their father worked with mine. They are close in time frame, came from one of the college programs and still.. nada!

One of my classmates with less time without a parent at AC did the in person interview though... Another friend at an express carrier, who lacks any family in aviation was also just hired.

I said what i saw at my AirCanada express..0 ac family members got pfo'd.
well if you don't hear from them right away it's a good sign...that's what they have been saying in this thread.
again, i know for sure (i have seen invitation emails)that people with less than 2 years in the Express got interviewed. the last one had 5 months in the company. that's why i'm so bitter towards this hiring process.
i always followed the pml rule, i waited 2 years before giving my name for the pml, and now people that don't follow the rule get my same chances. BS

[Oxi]

Folks at Jazz on the new contract are already in March GS's at Air Canada, less than 2 years.

[beaver1986]

Folks at Jazz on the new contract are already in March GS's at Air Canada, less than 2 years.

thanks you for sharing! so this is the proof that is not just my theory!

[aV1aTOr]

i got pfo'd after 4 days from my video interview.... based on 18 questions that had to be answered with a yes or no, and 4 open questions.
how can you evaluate someone just like that?
i have aviation degree, glass cockpit and jet experience and 5000hrs total and have been working in the Air Canada express for 4 years.
i bet that if i have had one of my parents working there it would have been different...
I say that because i have evidences that people with less than 2 years in the aircanada express and with parents in AC were interviewed and hired (to be eligible for the interview, the PML agreement states "min 2 years").
NICE JOB TO BE THE ICONIC SYMBOL OF THE COUNTRY!

I personally know someone with more experience than you (granted no jet), thousands of hours of glass 705 command time, 4 year degree, 705 instructor experience and all. Father is a 787 captain at AC. PFO'd.
And just to deflate any conspiracy theory you may have, you should know that interview results, including notes from face to face interviews, video interviews, psych and cog evals, references etc. all go before the hiring board, and they make the yea/nay call on candidates. Before anything is seen by that board it is de-identified to remove any influence from age, gender, ethnicity, and - you guessed it - family ties. It used to matter a decade ago but these days nepotism represents and very real legal threat to the airline and they take measures to avoid it.
I can't speak towards your issue of less than 2 years before interview, but having mom or dad at mainline shouldn't make any difference.

[PROC_HDG]

i got pfo'd after 4 days from my video interview.... based on 18 questions that had to be answered with a yes or no, and 4 open questions.
how can you evaluate someone just like that?
i have aviation degree, glass cockpit and jet experience and 5000hrs total and have been working in the Air Canada express for 4 years.
i bet that if i have had one of my parents working there it would have been different...
I say that because i have evidences that people with less than 2 years in the aircanada express and with parents in AC were interviewed and hired (to be eligible for the interview, the PML agreement states "min 2 years").
NICE JOB TO BE THE ICONIC SYMBOL OF THE COUNTRY!

If someone went over under 2 years and it was found out.. It would instantly be grieved and most likely result in a lawsuit. I highly doubt the bright folk at AC's HR would create such chaos.. and added cost. This whole program was established to reduce cost..

I'll call your bluff though.. I'm at an express carrier and have a parent at AC (pilot). It has done nothing for me. I have post sec. I am fluent in french. +5k. two crew, MPIC and all that other stuff.. I did the video interview in december and have heard nothing back. Zero. Zilch. Nothing.

One of my childhood friends is also at an express carrier and their father worked with mine. They are close in time frame, came from one of the college programs and still.. nada!

One of my classmates with less time without a parent at AC did the in person interview though... Another friend at an express carrier, who lacks any family in aviation was also just hired.

I said what i saw at my AirCanada express..0 ac family members got pfo'd.
well if you don't hear from them right away it's a good sign...that's what they have been saying in this thread.
again, i know for sure (i have seen invitation emails)that people with less than 2 years in the Express got interviewed. the last one had 5 months in the company. that's why i'm so bitter towards this hiring process.
i always followed the pml rule, i waited 2 years before giving my name for the pml, and now people that don't follow the rule get my same chances. BS

Nothing in the PML process states that they won't interview candidates with less than 2 years at an express carrier, just that they won't hire them before the 2 year mark. So far, many people at the various express carriers have been offered interviews before the 2 year mark, but none have actually seen a course until doing the 2 years. At Sky, probably 75% of the people with their names on the PML have 2 years or less at the company.

PROC_HDG

[dannyjet]

Thank you aV1aTOr, B777guy, and altiplano for your informative answers.

Please confirm if I understood correctly. There is a draw to determine pick order to choose equipment only in case there are vacancies on more than one type, correct? So once hired, you never know what you will fly until this random draw takes place, right? Would I be correct in guessing that vacancies on wide bodies are then far and in between? Is this draw what determines overall company seniority too other than that for picking type? Or is company seniority something completely separate to this draw and the equipment you’d fly? Sorry for the specific questions and getting slightly off the thread subject, you may PM me too.

Thanks again!

[bushwhacker55]

For what it's worth the apparent two year waiting period is a creation of Sky Regional not Air Canada. It only applies to CPA carriers that have implemented this policy. At Jazz you are able to click the box for application submission on day 1, and leave anytime after that should you be successful. No time constraints/commitments. The only requirements of the new PML are 2000 hrs TT, an ATPL, Cat 1 medical and of course employment at a CPA carrier. Any other additions were made by that CPA carrier not AC. Just wanted to clarify some misleading information.

[PROC_HDG]

Thank you aV1aTOr, B777guy, and altiplano for your informative answers.

Please confirm if I understood correctly. There is a draw to determine pick order to choose equipment only in case there are vacancies on more than one type, correct? So once hired, you never know what you will fly until this random draw takes place, right? Would I be correct in guessing that vacancies on wide bodies are then far and in between? Is this draw what determines overall company seniority too other than that for picking type? Or is company seniority something completely separate to this draw and the equipment you’d fly? Sorry for the specific questions and getting slightly off the thread subject, you may PM me too.

Thanks again!

A class of 30 will have 30 equipment spots available. Seniority is decided based on PML seniority/random draw. Seniority #1 out of 30 has the first pick out of the 30 spots, seniority #2 the second, etc etc.

The last few classes have been a mix of narrowbody FO and widebody(767 and rouge 767) FO spots, with some 787 RP thrown in.

PROC_HDG

[Canada340]

beaver1986,

These people getting interviews with less than 2 years, are they from Sky Reg as well? As far as I'm aware Sky is the only express carrier with the min 2 year requirement.

[AirMail]

Jeez beaver, if your interview is anything like how you post, I wonder why you got pfo'd so quickly

[aV1aTOr]

Thank you aV1aTOr, B777guy, and altiplano for your informative answers.

Please confirm if I understood correctly. There is a draw to determine pick order to choose equipment only in case there are vacancies on more than one type, correct? So once hired, you never know what you will fly until this random draw takes place, right? Would I be correct in guessing that vacancies on wide bodies are then far and in between? Is this draw what determines overall company seniority too other than that for picking type? Or is company seniority something completely separate to this draw and the equipment you’d fly? Sorry for the specific questions and getting slightly off the thread subject, you may PM me too.

Thanks again!

You are correct, the draw is to determine pick order from vacancies offered to the PIT course (a/c type and base), but also to determine company seniority. I had no idea what type or base I would get a shot at until halfway through my PIT course. As it turned out there was one type offered and all but one spot was YYZ based. But the draw determined seniority within our group and training order.
Widebody vacancies are more common nowadays, plenty of 787 & 777 rp spots to fill, as well as 767 (mainline and rouge) right seats. But again these are offered from course to course at the company's discretion based on current need. It is really a roll of the dice (from a new hire perspective) what you will be offered.

[dannyjet]

Great info to know before applying. I appreciate the answers aV1aTOr and PROC_HDG.

[groundpilot]

The above information is dated and incorrect.

Determining Seniority ever since the Jazz PML agreement has become a different process. Seniority is determined in advance of your PIT course.

This is due to candidates from Jazz given the option to defer and hold their seniority. Then, as a result to level the playing field for non Jazzers, they offered the same courtesy to "off the street"ers.

This has created courses with the difference from highest seniority to lowest seniority literally being 100s of numbers.

From what I understand, this is not supposed to continue. And I personally hope it does change. It should be "first on the property, first served."

[PROC_HDG]

The above information is dated and incorrect.

Determining Seniority ever since the Jazz PML agreement has become a different process. Seniority is determined in advance of your PIT course.

This is due to candidates from Jazz given the option to defer and hold their seniority. Then, as a result to level the playing field for non Jazzers, they offered the same courtesy to "off the street"ers.

This has created courses with the difference from highest seniority to lowest seniority literally being 100s of numbers.

From what I understand, this is not supposed to continue. And I personally hope it does change. It should be "first on the property, first served."

I imagine this will be the way they do it until all the original Jazz PML candidates have either been hired or turned down the job.

PROC_HDG

[beaver1986]

Jeez beaver, if your interview is anything like how you post, I wonder why you got pfo'd so quickly

i also wonder why training captains got pfo'd too after few days. The same has happened to my colleagues last year.... i have no bad records, no failures, got my upgrade within a year...i do not want to sound egotist but i have passed qatar (which i am going to accept now) and cathay interviews....so i am totally aware that is not me (if that's what you mean) or my qualifications/experience.
again, 18/23 questions were yes/no answers....
i have also seen, pilots related with ac employees getting pfo'd, but magically got that pfo reversed within 3 months.

[PROC_HDG]

Jeez beaver, if your interview is anything like how you post, I wonder why you got pfo'd so quickly

i also wonder why training captains got pfo'd too after few days. The same has happened to my colleagues last year.... i have no bad records, no failures, got my upgrade within a year...i do not want to sound egotist but i have passed qatar (which i am going to accept now) and cathay interviews....so i am totally aware that is not me (if that's what you mean) or my qualifications/experience.
again, 18/23 questions were yes/no answers....
i have also seen, pilots related with ac employees getting pfo'd, but magically got that pfo reversed within 3 months.

Dude, you have to get over the butt hurt. AC saw something they didn't like, and decided not to hire you. Many great people, and many awful people, have had and will continue to have the same experience. Many of them will try again and get the job. Many sons and daughters of AC pilots have been PFO'd multiple times and never been successful.

PROC_HDG

[groundpilot]

No one outside of HR really knows what goes on within those walls.

However, I think one has to look at the big picture of what they are attempting to accomplish.

They want good employees first and foremost. Once you get to the interview stage, it's safe to say they think you have the experience it takes to be a qualified AC pilot.

Now during the hiring process, they are assessing if they think you will be a solid employee during your career. So unless you were in the interview with these folks, it's hard to say what happened.

I know it sucks getting PFO'd. I would be upset too. I've not been selected for various positions throughout my career and it is hard not to be bitter.

However, the best thing one can do is apply or re-apply and when it is time to interview, be dang sure you are 100% prepared. Talk to people who have interviewed recently, do mock interviews, there is even a published book for this exact interview.

I assure you if walk into that building with the right attitude and you are prepared, your chances of success are high, not guaranteed, but high.

Best of luck out there folks - there is lots of opportunities. Chin up.

[beaver1986]

Jeez beaver, if your interview is anything like how you post, I wonder why you got pfo'd so quickly

i also wonder why training captains got pfo'd too after few days. The same has happened to my colleagues last year.... i have no bad records, no failures, got my upgrade within a year...i do not want to sound egotist but i have passed qatar (which i am going to accept now) and cathay interviews....so i am totally aware that is not me (if that's what you mean) or my qualifications/experience.
again, 18/23 questions were yes/no answers....
i have also seen, pilots related with ac employees getting pfo'd, but magically got that pfo reversed within 3 months.

Dude, you have to get over the butt hurt. AC saw something they didn't like, and decided not to hire you. Many great people, and many awful people, have had and will continue to have the same experience. Many of them will try again and get the job. Many sons and daughters of AC pilots have been PFO'd multiple times and never been successful.

PROC_HDG

it's pointless to discuss about this with you. when you pass at least one interview with companies like emirates, qatar,cathay etc well known to be the most difficult interviews for pilots and you get pfo'd by a fricking video interview made by 18yes/no questions you will understand my point!

[PROC_HDG]

i also wonder why training captains got pfo'd too after few days. The same has happened to my colleagues last year.... i have no bad records, no failures, got my upgrade within a year...i do not want to sound egotist but i have passed qatar (which i am going to accept now) and cathay interviews....so i am totally aware that is not me (if that's what you mean) or my qualifications/experience.
again, 18/23 questions were yes/no answers....
i have also seen, pilots related with ac employees getting pfo'd, but magically got that pfo reversed within 3 months.

Dude, you have to get over the butt hurt. AC saw something they didn't like, and decided not to hire you. Many great people, and many awful people, have had and will continue to have the same experience. Many of them will try again and get the job. Many sons and daughters of AC pilots have been PFO'd multiple times and never been successful.

PROC_HDG

it's pointless to discuss about this with you. when you pass at least one interview with companies like emirates, qatar,cathay etc well known to be the most difficult interviews for pilots and you get pfo'd by a fricking video interview made by 18yes/no questions you will understand my point!

The more you post, the clearer it becomes why you got the PFO.

PROC_HDG

[altiplano]

The more you post, the clearer it becomes why you got the PFO.

PROC_HDG

No sh!t...

I can imagine it burns but that's life...

On the bright side many over there in the ME like to carry on about how much better it is there than here so I imagine you can jump on that wagon soon... Good luck.

[altiplano]

The above information is dated and incorrect.

Determining Seniority ever since the Jazz PML agreement has become a different process. Seniority is determined in advance of your PIT course.

This is due to candidates from Jazz given the option to defer and hold their seniority. Then, as a result to level the playing field for non Jazzers, they offered the same courtesy to "off the street"ers.

This has created courses with the difference from highest seniority to lowest seniority literally being 100s of numbers.

From what I understand, this is not supposed to continue. And I personally hope it does change. It should be "first on the property, first served."

I forgot about that...

The way I understand they put the OTS guys names in the hat and write Jazz on the other tickets...

When they pull a Jazz ticket, the deferred pilot, or if none, the senior Jazz pilot is slotted a number, when they pull an OTS name, the guy there gets a number, OTS guys are not slotted behind PML deferrals and Jazz guys that show. They get the natural# they would have got relative the number of pilots who have joined AC to that day...

So in the end the Jazz/PML guys there are getting seniority numbers way down the list because of the large number of deferrals and the relative seniority having to be respected...

I think it's a convoluted system, but at least fair for OTS guys because they weren't slotted behind 100 deferrals... for Jazz guys I guess it depends on how far your seniority landed you if it's fair or not... But I thought it was to stop with the end of the original Jazz PML list, seniority was to be given based on the day you come here, not the day you went there...

Anyway...

[Ancient]

emirates, qatar,cathay

If you really have your choice of these airlines just go there and take home 2-4 times the salary you'd ever make at AC and retire early in Canada if that's where you really want to be.

[altiplano]

A quick look at the last course of 2016 vs. the 2017 seniority list...

I see an OTS guy was slotted in the 3100s... a Jazz guy in the 3400s... About 150 spots are without names between roughly 3000 and 3500 on the seniority list...

As I said convoluted... But still a draw - it's just express guys get pushed down the list by deferrals senior to them...

I'm glad non-pml guys weren't shafted by the express deferrals.

[Braaaap]

beaver1986 has to be the reincarnation of Nicky Nick.

[beaver1986]

beaver1986 has to be the reincarnation of Nicky Nick.

who is your mom then?