3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Covid related topics that are connected to travel or the aviation industry.
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acpaleaks
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by acpaleaks »

FL320 wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:34 am
acpaleaks wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:33 am To those who don't want to get vaccinated, enjoy losing your job when whatever country that you regularly fly to says you can't enter unless you are vaccinated.

I, like many others aren't going to sit by quietly and allow out of seniority bidding/accomodation for the anti-vaxxers. Your only option will be to bid NB and bid domestic/USA flying. And if you end up getting awarded a flight you can't do for lack of being vaccinated, drop no credit. That's life, that's the seniority system you all signed up for.
Here we go again with the job threat. Pathetic
As far as I am concerned; I won’t trade my integrity and my health for an airline pilot job: it’s just a job and I can happily and comfortably live without it. Anyway that kind of flying job won’t be fun anymore…
Note: I am not an antivaxx at all; but I have no confidence it this one ..yet. I just want to wait for the end of the trial (I thank you for your devotion).
My uncle just went to the hospital (3 weeks after 2nd Pfz doze); he was suddenly short of breath (very active and healthy) diagnosed with a pulmonary infection. Also a neighbor just suffered a miscarriage (7 months pregnant) she was fine before the jab.
Note 2: Seniority may work both ways…imagine those losing their medical within the next months/years because of yet unknown side effects; good luck!
Not a job threat, it's a reality check. If sovereign nations require you to be vaccinated too enter their country that has nothing to do with your airline forcing anything on you.

You make the choice you need to when the time comes.
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montado
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by montado »

So question… does fully vaccinated and ability to get the vaccine passport just mean two dose of an approved vaccine?

Pfizer has a third shot now.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/09/health/p ... index.html

Will it be acceptable for me to go rock out at a concert with my mask and 50 percent capacity after I display my two does certificates, or will I not be allowed until I also show the third dose. The rule is not clear to me yet but I just want to be safe. :lol:

I was at wonderland and it was great. Everyone was so respectful and wore masks. I waited for the ride long time because they were spraying it down every hour. But I mean it was definitely worth it, I finally got on and wowza life feels so normal. My mask flew off on the coaster… I immediately reported this to staff so they could replace my mask and also take my name and number for contact tracing in case I spread covid on the people below. It was great! I didn’t scream… I mean screaming is bad, that’s how super spreader events happen.
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acpaleaks
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by acpaleaks »

montado wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:44 pm So question… does fully vaccinated and ability to get the vaccine passport just mean two dose of an approved vaccine?

Pfizer has a third shot now.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/09/health/p ... index.html

Will it be acceptable for me to go rock out at a concert with my mask and 50 percent capacity after I display my two does certificates, or will I not be allowed until I also show the third dose. The rule is not clear to me yet but I just want to be safe. :lol:

I was at wonderland and it was great. Everyone was so respectful and wore masks. I waited for the ride long time because they were spraying it down every hour. But I mean it was definitely worth it, I finally got on and wowza life feels so normal. My mask flew off on the coaster… I immediately reported this to staff so they could replace my mask and also take my name and number for contact tracing in case I spread covid on the people below. It was great! I didn’t scream… I mean screaming is bad, that’s how super spreader events happen.
Your attempt at trolling is pretty pathetic.
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notwhoyouthinkIam
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by notwhoyouthinkIam »

FL320 wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:34 am
acpaleaks wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:33 am To those who don't want to get vaccinated, enjoy losing your job when whatever country that you regularly fly to says you can't enter unless you are vaccinated.

I, like many others aren't going to sit by quietly and allow out of seniority bidding/accomodation for the anti-vaxxers. Your only option will be to bid NB and bid domestic/USA flying. And if you end up getting awarded a flight you can't do for lack of being vaccinated, drop no credit. That's life, that's the seniority system you all signed up for.
Here we go again with the job threat. Pathetic
As far as I am concerned; I won’t trade my integrity and my health for an airline pilot job: it’s just a job and I can happily and comfortably live without it. Anyway that kind of flying job won’t be fun anymore…
Note: I am not an antivaxx at all; but I have no confidence it this one ..yet. I just want to wait for the end of the trial (I thank you for your devotion).
My uncle just went to the hospital (3 weeks after 2nd Pfz doze); he was suddenly short of breath (very active and healthy) diagnosed with a pulmonary infection. Also a neighbor just suffered a miscarriage (7 months pregnant) she was fine before the jab.
Note 2: Seniority may work both ways…imagine those losing their medical within the next months/years because of yet unknown side effects; good luck!
You seriously believe that the vaccine caused an infection AND caused a miscarriage?
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TG
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by TG »

notwhoyouthinkIam wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:09 am
FL320 wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:34 am
acpaleaks wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 12:33 am To those who don't want to get vaccinated, enjoy losing your job when whatever country that you regularly fly to says you can't enter unless you are vaccinated.

I, like many others aren't going to sit by quietly and allow out of seniority bidding/accomodation for the anti-vaxxers. Your only option will be to bid NB and bid domestic/USA flying. And if you end up getting awarded a flight you can't do for lack of being vaccinated, drop no credit. That's life, that's the seniority system you all signed up for.
Here we go again with the job threat. Pathetic
As far as I am concerned; I won’t trade my integrity and my health for an airline pilot job: it’s just a job and I can happily and comfortably live without it. Anyway that kind of flying job won’t be fun anymore…
Note: I am not an antivaxx at all; but I have no confidence it this one ..yet. I just want to wait for the end of the trial (I thank you for your devotion).
My uncle just went to the hospital (3 weeks after 2nd Pfz doze); he was suddenly short of breath (very active and healthy) diagnosed with a pulmonary infection. Also a neighbor just suffered a miscarriage (7 months pregnant) she was fine before the jab.
Note 2: Seniority may work both ways…imagine those losing their medical within the next months/years because of yet unknown side effects; good luck!
You seriously believe that the vaccine caused an infection AND caused a miscarriage?
Yes, no kidding...
I thought correlation vs causation concept had been beaten to death already.
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montado
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by montado »

acpaleaks wrote: Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:36 am Not a job threat, it's a reality check. If sovereign nations require you to be vaccinated too enter their country that has nothing to do with your airline forcing anything on you.

You make the choice you need to when the time comes.
All of this is just grumblings until it happens. Governments are making lots of empty threats and people and the media keep regurgitating their cud. They want to use these threats to convince you to get a shot. Until pen hits paper and laws are made, none of these opinions matter.

Nothing says that you can’t travel without a vaccine yet. So that’s exactly right, when the time comes you can make a choice. As of now millions of Ontario residents with vaccines are still following the same restrictions as the unvaccinated. It’s likely to remain this way… things will open up and the unvaccinated will get the same freedoms as the rest.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

montado wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:02 am As of now millions of Ontario residents with vaccines are still following the same restrictions as the unvaccinated. It’s likely to remain this way… things will open up and the unvaccinated will get the same freedoms as the rest.
No, those who are vaccinated absolutely aren't following the same restrictions as those who are not:
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/trave ... vaccinated
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by montado »

photofly wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:34 pm
montado wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:02 am As of now millions of Ontario residents with vaccines are still following the same restrictions as the unvaccinated. It’s likely to remain this way… things will open up and the unvaccinated will get the same freedoms as the rest.
No, those who are vaccinated absolutely aren't following the same restrictions as those who are not:
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/trave ... vaccinated
:rolleyes: :lol: You were right… if you are working you don’t have to quarantine. But even if you are fully vaccinated, if you travel for a wedding you are in the same boat as the unvaccinated. Wooossshhhh! So much privilege for the vaccinated! I bet they will all run out right now to get a shot because photofly was right, there are perks to two shots :lol:
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

montado wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:10 pmWooossshhhh! So much privilege for the vaccinated!
What did you think restrictions on people who aren't vaccinated were going to look like?
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by TG »

montado wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:10 pm
photofly wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:34 pm
montado wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:02 am As of now millions of Ontario residents with vaccines are still following the same restrictions as the unvaccinated. It’s likely to remain this way… things will open up and the unvaccinated will get the same freedoms as the rest.
No, those who are vaccinated absolutely aren't following the same restrictions as those who are not:
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/trave ... vaccinated
:rolleyes: :lol: You were right… if you are working you don’t have to quarantine. But even if you are fully vaccinated, if you travel for a wedding you are in the same boat as the unvaccinated. Wooossshhhh! So much privilege for the vaccinated! I bet they will all run out right now to get a shot because photofly was right, there are perks to two shots :lol:
What I'm quoting below is clear as mud but rules changed on July 5th. For the fully vaccinated if I'm not mistaken.
Exemptions for fully vaccinated travellers who meet specific conditions
Fully vaccinated travellers who arrived before 12:01 a.m. EDT on July 5, aren’t eligible for these exemptions. If you returned to Canada before this time, you must complete your 14-day quarantine and a Day-8 test.

You may qualify for certain exemptions to quarantine and testing requirements if you:

are eligible to enter Canada
are asymptomatic
meet the Government of Canada requirements of fully vaccinated travellers
meet all other entry requirements, including entering your information in ArriveCAN before arrival
Those who meet the requirements may be exempt from:

quarantine
hotel stopover (for air travellers)
day-8 testing requirement
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by altiplano »

More evidence mix and match and non standard dosing isn't such a good idea. The science project that is covid vaccine delivery in Canada was completely managed to save political face and not prioritized for the best interest of the individuals.

You don't have to listen to me though... I mean it's just the WHO Chief Scientist saying thing like:

"Dangerous trend"

"Evidence free zone"

"Little data available"

Follow the science? Right?

Pick your news agency... it's there, from CTV to Fox to Global... except the CBC perhaps that I don't see a report from them in the "full coverage" link.

Global News: Mixing COVID-19 vaccines a ‘dangerous trend,’ WHO chief scientist says.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8021692/mixi ... trend-who/
The World Health Organization‘s chief scientist on Monday advised against people mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines from different manufacturers, calling it a “dangerous trend” since there was little data available about the health impact.

“It’s a little bit of a dangerous trend here. We are in a data-free, evidence-free zone as far as mix and match,” Soumya Swaminathan told an online briefing.
Reports are higher likelihoods of moderate side effects and unproven efficacy.

Interesting that Anita Anand (Procurement Minister) now gets marched out to say that it wasn't the Federal Government's policy to mix doses, but the provinces' choices to manage delivery...
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FL320
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by FL320 »

How can people still trust this government is beyond my comprehension. Canadians have been clearly treated as lab rats.
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altiplano
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by altiplano »

FL320 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:15 pm How can people still trust this government is beyond my comprehension. Canadians have been clearly treated as lab rats.
Right?

But we're referred to derogatorily as "anti-vax, anti-science, idiot, liars" simply for questioning things and looking deeper into their own studies.

How about now? Was it reasonable to not take the political bait and wait until there was more information on mixing vaccines? Taking non-standard doses?

I mean the WHO Head Scientist now says not a good idea...

What say you all now?

Is the WHO Head Scientist an anti-vax liar too?

Muppets.
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Last edited by altiplano on Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

You know that watching YouTube videos that are suggested to you doesn’t count as “looking deeper”, right?
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by altiplano »

photofly wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:43 pm You know that watching YouTube videos that are suggested to you doesn’t count as “looking deeper”, right?
That's all you have... belittle the messenger, dismiss the parts that don't fit your message.

I explained at length in this thread that mixing vaccines and dosing schedules was not something that I wanted to participate in, that it wasn't supported by clinical trials or researched, that it was driven by politics.

I made a fair, factual argument, and all I got was vitriol from you and others, anti-vax, anti-science, idiot, liar, etc.

There's you go, the WHO Head Scientist agrees with my concerns. Did you not see that? I posted a link and quoted some statements right there.

Is she a liar? Is she anti-science? Is she doing her research on YouTube? Is that fake news?

Why don't you eat your pride for once and say:
"OK, maybe your concerns are reasonable, there could be more to this than what I've been lead to believe."

But you won't. You'll just make another comment to dismiss me, because that's all you got.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by montado »

I cant accept anyone as fully vaccinated if they mixed doses. I hope countries ban those people for one year and make them start over and get the double shot as per the expert guidelines. Its the only way to ensure the safety of all the people. If you mixed shots we should put you in quarantine for 6 months. These people are the most hazardous of them all. They are the type if you say follow me jumping off the bridge they would do it. Damn the anti science people. I hope small businesses ban vaccine mixers and I hope they cant travel and I hope they put restrictions on them. I want to join the fascism and logic of all those pro science "just follow the SOP" types like photofly.

Just kidding.

Altiplano I'm banging my posts on my front porch for you.

Just kidding about that too. But I respect your choices, Don't let the Online Herd of SJW's get to you! This is the only place they come out with their dumb opinions, because if photofly talked this way in person, the way he writes in here, he couldn't say it with a straight face. Maybe he could say it with a mask on.

Just remember this face. This is the face of someone who screams "you need a vaccine to save my life". And at the same time will also scream "my body my choice I can get an abortion if I want one". Is this Consistent?
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altiplano
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by altiplano »

LOL...

Thanks montado.

I feel bad for people that didn't question politically driven recommendations and are now in the "evidence free zone" wrt their vaccination status and may not get recognized. I get it, you want to trust our "experts" but unfortunately our "experts" are political appointees and have different motivations than you and I.

I recall Howard Njoo, Deputy Chief Public Health Officer at PHAC, stating in a news conference when challenged very mildly by a reporter after his comment didn't align by one from the Prime Minister on vaccine roll out: "Is that what he said, well then I default to the PM, that's what it is, I never disagree with my boss."

Now people with certain vaccines aren't recognized, people with mixed vaccines are a dangerous trend, no thanks... maybe get that stuff sorted out and get full approvals for these vaccines and then I'll take a look.

Doesn't matter though, online booking portal is buzzing, people that want it are taking the vaccine that I'm foregoing, numbers keep chugging along... and I'm happy people are feeling good about it and I hope it works out for them.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by Inverted2 »

Don’t worry about mix & match. They’re already talking “booster” shots for next year so if you survive this winter with your altered immune systems you can get matching booster shots next year.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

altiplano wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:35 am
photofly wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:43 pm You know that watching YouTube videos that are suggested to you doesn’t count as “looking deeper”, right?
That's all you have... belittle the messenger, dismiss the parts that don't fit your message.
Not really. Some people here like approvingly to post videos by or about Dutch vets who have "discovered" the secret conspiracy at the heart of COVID19 (or whatever he claims to have discovered). Those are the people who get labelled as you suggested, and what they're doing doesn't count as "looking deeper". I wondered if you agree with that. That's all.
I explained at length in this thread that mixing vaccines and dosing schedules was not something that I wanted to participate in, that it wasn't supported by clinical trials or researched, that it was driven by politics.

I made a fair, factual argument, and all I got was vitriol from you and others, anti-vax, anti-science, idiot, liar, etc.
I speak only for myself, I'm afraid - If you don't like what other people write about you, you'll have to take it up with them. I certainly don't think of you as a liar and I also have concerns about mixing vaccine doses: I chose to get two doses of the same vaccine.

I've also never said "anti-vax", "anti-science", or any of those other terms about you.
Why don't you eat your pride for once and say:
"OK, maybe your concerns are reasonable, there could be more to this than what I've been lead to believe."

But you won't. You'll just make another comment to dismiss me, because that's all you got.
If I remember rightly, you and I were mostly arguing about the reasonableness (or otherwise) of policies put in place to protect those of us who do get vaccinated from problems caused by those who selfishly choose not to. I think you labelled me a fascist for my troubles, no? Also that I'm "bat-shit crazy", called on me to "go to China", told me I have "elistist fascist day dreams", and that I"m an "Elitist. Fascist. Authoritarian." If anyone is feeling dismissed here...

On the other hand, when you reasonably express reasonable concerns, I've read what you written with interest and I don't think I've made much comment.


Just looking at the title of the thread again: has it turned out to be of any significance? Is there a plague of deaths amongst pilots? From BA or any other airlines? Just curious.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

More on the subject of restrictions on the unvaccinated:

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2021 ... vaccinated
A record number of French people sought to book appointments for Covid-19 vaccinations on Monday night after President Emmanuel Macron announced a slew of measures designed to push sceptics to get themselves jabbed.

In an address to the nation, Macron announced that from next month anyone wanting to go out to eat or drink, take a long-distance train or visit a shopping centre will need to show either proof of vaccination or a negative test.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/ ... -1.6098986
Alberta will not be following the lead of Quebec and Manitoba on vaccine passports, says Premier Jason Kenney.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal ... -1.6098362
Quebec could soon have a vaccine passport system in place that would keep people who aren't fully vaccinated away from bars, gyms and festivals, yet there are plenty of questions about how it would be implemented and enforced — and whether it's even necessary.

Maybe it's a French language thing?
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by altiplano »

photofly wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:14 am
altiplano wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:35 am
photofly wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:43 pm You know that watching YouTube videos that are suggested to you doesn’t count as “looking deeper”, right?
That's all you have... belittle the messenger, dismiss the parts that don't fit your message.
Not really. Some people here like approvingly to post videos by or about Dutch vets who have "discovered" the secret conspiracy at the heart of COVID19 (or whatever he claims to have discovered). Those are the people who get labelled as you suggested, and what they're doing doesn't count as "looking deeper". I wondered if you agree with that. That's all.
I explained at length in this thread that mixing vaccines and dosing schedules was not something that I wanted to participate in, that it wasn't supported by clinical trials or researched, that it was driven by politics.

I made a fair, factual argument, and all I got was vitriol from you and others, anti-vax, anti-science, idiot, liar, etc.
I speak only for myself, I'm afraid - If you don't like what other people write about you, you'll have to take it up with them. I certainly don't think of you as a liar and I also have concerns about mixing vaccine doses: I chose to get two doses of the same vaccine.

I've also never said "anti-vax", "anti-science", or any of those other terms about you.
Why don't you eat your pride for once and say:
"OK, maybe your concerns are reasonable, there could be more to this than what I've been lead to believe."

But you won't. You'll just make another comment to dismiss me, because that's all you got.
If I remember rightly, you and I were mostly arguing about the reasonableness (or otherwise) of policies put in place to protect those of us who do get vaccinated from problems caused by those who selfishly choose not to. I think you labelled me a fascist for my troubles, no? Also that I'm "bat-shit crazy", called on me to "go to China", told me I have "elistist fascist day dreams", and that I"m an "Elitist. Fascist. Authoritarian." If anyone is feeling dismissed here...

On the other hand, when you reasonably express reasonable concerns, I've read what you written with interest and I don't think I've made much comment.


Just looking at the title of the thread again: has it turned out to be of any significance? Is there a plague of deaths amongst pilots? From BA or any other airlines? Just curious.
I don't know anything about the Dutch vets you speak of.

I'm glad that you acknowledge that you don't approve of mixing doses, you haven't mentioned that previously, and unfortunately many people aren't getting a choice on that. You get what's available and are pushed to accept what they have.

Supporting a world where you use fear to push for a segmented society where people are restricted and lose their livelihoods and freedom is fascist. It doesn't align with the values of a free country. Particularly when the alternative you say is available is a crap shoot chance to get a non-approved experimental vaccine that is being administered in a random non-trialled manner.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

altiplano wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:45 am I'm glad that you acknowledge that you don't approve of mixing doses, you haven't mentioned that previously, and unfortunately many people aren't getting a choice on that. You get what's available and are pushed to accept what they have.
I neither approve nor disapprove of mixing doses. I had a completely free choice to get a second AZ vaccine or an mRNA one, or none at all. Nobody pushed me into anything.

I do find the whole "which brand of vaccine" a little hysterical (on both sides). Nobody takes any interest in which brand of MMR vaccine, or pertussis vaccine, or tetanus vaccine, or flu vaccine they get or have ever had, when recommended a booster.
Supporting a world where you use fear to push for a segmented society where people are restricted and lose their livelihoods and freedom is fascist. It doesn't align with the values of a free country
I don't know what you're talking about. People can make lots of decisions that result in restrictions and loss of livelihoods and freedom in the most free countries of all. Fear of being sacked for improper behaviour keeps people doing their jobs right, and fear of imprisonment keeps people from committing criminal offences, everywhere.
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by altiplano »

Fair enough - "concerns" about non-verified mix dosing.

That's a big issue I have, along with non-tested intervals for doses, and yet to be attained full approvals for these. People don't have any assurance they will be offered the treatment as it is designed and recommended to be given.

Until that happens and politics no longer dominates the policy, how can widespread confidence be there.

I'll leave it at that...
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photofly
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by photofly »

I think everyone is a maybe a little bit sensitive about timings of vaccine doses, too.

The manufacturer has a recommendation for the schedule which was used in testing, but I don't think the timing they used was tied to any great theoretical or practical requirement, or even adjusted for maximum efficacy - I think it was fairly arbitrary to begin with. When children get booster doses of all the regular childhood vaccines, there are recommended ages and timings, but nobody falls off their stool if you have the boosters one, or two, or even three years late.

As far as I know, there's good evidence for the various COVID19 vaccines' effectiveness given a second dose at a wide variety of different intervals. i certainly wouldn't (and didn't) allow a lack of precision over when I might receive a second dose to prevent me from having a first dose.
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7ECA
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Re: 3 BA pilots died following their 2nd jab this last week

Post by 7ECA »

Went and got my second jab of Pfizer today in BC, at a few days before the eight week mark. At the vaccine clinic there was a sign by the entrance that had the "menu" for the day. If you had Pfizer for your first dose, you get Pfizer. If you had Moderna, you get Moderna again. AstraZeneca as a first dose - I believe it was a customers choice; although quite frankly I wasn't paying all that much attention as I was quite content to be in and out in roughly 18 minutes.
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