Kelowna Flightcraft moving to YYZ

[palebird]

Because there is a market for this.

I agree - on the surface - simply stopping in Anchorage seems kind of odd, I'm sure there's a reason though.......maybe it's what his customer wants. No freight forwarder would use DHL or Purolator.....are you nuts????? It costs $9 to send a letter to Victoria. That's why they use belly space. Now give them a dedicated plane and you'd be surprised how fast you could fill it.

You do make some valid points, and I wouldn't use the 10's more than 2 or 3 years until you got something better - but the pros outweigh the cons in this case.

I mean come on......Do you really think Barry simply closed his eyes, pointed at a map and said "we're flying here - find someone to fill the plane"???

Short answer: Yes and no boeingboy there is no market for this.. it is going to be hilarious to watch Barry flounder, not so much for the employee's and I hope that not too many of them get suckered into this venture.

[BMLtech]

Some interesting info on the DC10-30F in the attached file. Yes the aircraft will burn some fuel, but is capable of lifting close to 75 tons on a transatlantic segment, and can go considerably farther with a corresponding payload reduction. I think those numbers far exceed the capability of the 767-200F.

DC-10-30F-Stats-1.pdf

(92.76 KiB) Downloaded 183 times

[rudder]

Some interesting info on the DC10-30F in the attached file. Yes the aircraft will burn some fuel, but is capable of lifting close to 75 tons on a transatlantic segment, and can go considerably farther with a corresponding payload reduction. I think those numbers far exceed the capability of the 767-200F.

DC-10-30F-Stats-1.pdf

What about a B767-300F?

[BMLtech]

What about a B767-300F?[/quote]
http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial ... _prod.page
not even close, but of course a lower direct operating cost, and a huge capital cost to buy or lease. And those numbers are for the boeing factory freighter, the conversion numbers are probably lower.

[corytrevor]

And those numbers are for the boeing factory freighter, the conversion numbers are probably lower

Slightly higher numbers.

[BMLtech]

Slightly higher numbers.[/quote]

Interesting. In older freighter conversions, structural payload limits were often lower, due to the lack of re-enforced floor beams etc. that were used on the factory freighter models. This often meant that the conversions could have a slightly lower OEW, but also a lower MZFW.

[Realitychex]

Because there is a market for this.

I agree - on the surface - simply stopping in Anchorage seems kind of odd, I'm sure there's a reason though.......maybe it's what his customer wants. No freight forwarder would use DHL or Purolator.....are you nuts????? It costs $9 to send a letter to Victoria. That's why they use belly space. Now give them a dedicated plane and you'd be surprised how fast you could fill it.

You do make some valid points, and I wouldn't use the 10's more than 2 or 3 years until you got something better - but the pros outweigh the cons in this case.

I mean come on......Do you really think Barry simply closed his eyes, pointed at a map and said "we're flying here - find someone to fill the plane"???

BL is one of the sharpest aviation business guys out there, and miles ahead of his competitors. He's smart enough not to buy cargo contracts bid so low they'll result in, at best, marginal returns.

When the low bidders are unable to fulfill the contract, BL will be waiting in the wings.

In the meantime, he's got lots of business on his plate.

[palebird]

You guys are really funny. Bought and paid for. BL is good in his little sandbox where he has all kinds of control. But he is overstepping his boundaries. There are far bigger sharks in the sea than BL. He is but a minnow.

[BMLtech]

It will also be interesting to see how Cargojet makes out with the CP/Purolator contract. I wish then the best, a few of my buddies are working there now. On the KF/CP/Purolator line haul, aircraft utilization was usually no more that 4 or 5 hours per night. That's real low utilization for an expensive asset like a B757F or B767F.
Makes me wonder if they are going to run a different type of sked. to get the utilization up.Maybe they are planning day runs to service their other customers.

[Realitychex]

You guys are really funny. Bought and paid for. BL is good in his little sandbox where he has all kinds of control. But he is overstepping his boundaries. There are far bigger sharks in the sea than BL. He is but a minnow.

There isn't an outfit in Canada that wouldn't mind having a tiny fraction of the success BL has had, and will have in the future.

Barry doesn't buy business. Never has, never will.

I suspect people would be blown away by how little he has in that DC10 fleet. It's peanuts. He can afford to not bother with contracts where he loses a little each day, but makes it up on volume.

Others will blow their brains out chasing that business.

It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

[rudder]

There isn't an outfit in Canada that wouldn't mind having a tiny fraction of the success BL has had, and will have in the future.

Barry doesn't buy business. Never has, never will.

I suspect people would be blown away by how little he has in that DC10 fleet. It's peanuts. He can afford to not bother with contracts where he loses a little each day, but makes it up on volume.

Others will blow their brains out chasing that business.

It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

If BL is so bright, then how did he lose the Purolator contract?

[BMLtech]

If BL is so bright, then how did he lose the Purolator contract?[/quote]

If I had to make a guess, I would say that it had to do with the price of oil (and jet fuel) being at an all time high, and perhaps purolator no longer wanted to pay the fuel for a thirsty fleet. BL probably didn't see upgrading to a more efficient fleet as economically viable, given the low utilization.He has said so himself in the past. Now the price of oil has crashed. Interesting how these things play out.
Another thing that I would be willing to bet money on, is that all of those DC10's are paid off by the previous contract, probably with enough left over to get several engines overhauled. The same thing happened when Greyhound shut down in the 90's. KF ended up with a fleet of B727-200 paid for, and promptly whacked cargo doors into them and put them on the Purolator contract...not the first rodeo for BL.

[Realitychex]

There isn't an outfit in Canada that wouldn't mind having a tiny fraction of the success BL has had, and will have in the future.

Barry doesn't buy business. Never has, never will.

I suspect people would be blown away by how little he has in that DC10 fleet. It's peanuts. He can afford to not bother with contracts where he loses a little each day, but makes it up on volume.

Others will blow their brains out chasing that business.

It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

If BL is so bright, then how did he lose the Purolator contract?

Why bid on a contract against others who are buying business? What's the point? Barry's been to that rodeo countless times over the years. Guess who's still in business?

[palebird]

Rodeo.. exactly my point..if BL is looking to expand his borders rodeo riders need not apply.. mildly amusing

[ywg9]

Maybe he didn't lose the contract, now by that I mean maybe he let it go ( bid your lowest and thats it, should you bid to lose money)His costs were getting up there he has had a battle with alpa previously and this is a good way to start with a fresh Labour force at low cost when you bid on the work again in a few years. Also dont forget he sits on the Canada post board, Just a thought. I never worked for him but I to wouldn't bet against BL. He's a smart man and a man that has a lot of contacts in the freight moving world and knows a heck of a lot more about aviation business and freight than anyone here. Even a small piece of the pie is a pretty big pay day and it keeps your planes flying, on that note I don't recall them saying what the fleet was. my 2 cents

[DanJ]

Maybe he didn't lose the contract, now by that I mean maybe he let it go ( bid your lowest and thats it, should you bid to lose money)His costs were getting up there he has had a battle with alpa previously and this is a good way to start with a fresh Labour force at low cost when you bid on the work again in a few years. Also dont forget he sits on the Canada post board, Just a thought. I never worked for him but I to wouldn't bet against BL. He's a smart man and a man that has a lot of contacts in the freight moving world and knows a heck of a lot more about aviation business and freight than anyone here. Even a small piece of the pie is a pretty big pay day and it keeps your planes flying, on that note I don't recall them saying what the fleet was. my 2 cents

Barry sits on the Purolator board, and is a minority owner of Purolator. He isn't on the Canada Post board.

[ramp_rat]

http://www.cyqm.ca/en/home/aboutus/news ... alcar.aspx

[bmc]

With the right interline prorate agreements in place, he can make life pretty unpleasant for European carriers that top up belly. This actually an easy game to get into. Not all airlines of the world fly to Canada but many fly to Europe and they look for opportunities to either fill their planes or improve yield through interlining. Cargo moves on price, not because it's British Airways. Cargo doesn't care if the plane is blue, red, black or unpainted. BL can tap into a larger network that the European carriers hold.

I spent a number of years looking after interlining at Canadian and foreign airlines. I also oversaw multilateral proration for passenger and cargo, for the industry. This will be fun to watch.

I'd rather see this money go to a Canadian carrier and a foreign flag operator. Sadly, some people on this thread and Avcanada seem to prefer to see airlines vanish in Canada that to see the industry grow. I don't get it.

[BMLtech]

any update on how the new transatlantic run is going so far?

[DanJ]

If BL is so bright, then how did he lose the Purolator contract?

If I had to make a guess, I would say that it had to do with the price of oil (and jet fuel) being at an all time high, and perhaps purolator no longer wanted to pay the fuel for a thirsty fleet. BL probably didn't see upgrading to a more efficient fleet as economically viable, given the low utilization.He has said so himself in the past. Now the price of oil has crashed. Interesting how these things play out.
Another thing that I would be willing to bet money on, is that all of those DC10's are paid off by the previous contract, probably with enough left over to get several engines overhauled. The same thing happened when Greyhound shut down in the 90's. KF ended up with a fleet of B727-200 paid for, and promptly whacked cargo doors into them and put them on the Purolator contract...not the first rodeo for BL.

With KF, Purolator paid for the whole plane, and sought other business to top it off. With CJ, Purolator pays for the space it uses, and no longer has ground handling costs on top. They project to save $30million per year on this. Whether it ends up costing CJ, time will tell.

[chowda]

Because there is a market for this.

I agree - on the surface - simply stopping in Anchorage seems kind of odd, I'm sure there's a reason though.......maybe it's what his customer wants. No freight forwarder would use DHL or Purolator.....are you nuts????? It costs $9 to send a letter to Victoria. That's why they use belly space. Now give them a dedicated plane and you'd be surprised how fast you could fill it.

You do make some valid points, and I wouldn't use the 10's more than 2 or 3 years until you got something better - but the pros outweigh the cons in this case.

I mean come on......Do you really think Barry simply closed his eyes, pointed at a map and said "we're flying here - find someone to fill the plane"???

Short answer: Yes and no boeingboy there is no market for this.. it is going to be hilarious to watch Barry flounder, not so much for the employee's and I hope that not too many of them get suckered into this venture.

a little update

http://www.kelownacapnews.com/news/322412661.html

http://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/14 ... -Aerospace

For the employees, I feel for you.

As for Barry, I'd like to introduce you to Kharma.

She's a bitch.

[BMLtech]

on another note, one of the DC10's has made its final journey to the pop can factory:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steelhead ... 7423449609

[BMLtech]

Some of the 727 have also recently got the axe. This particular frame was originally a Continental machine and was part of the Greyhound Air fleet around 1995:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/steelhead ... otostream/

[skypirate88]

2 more Boeings have been donated recently, 1 went to a school in London, and the other went to a school out west.

[pelmet]

Any update on what flying the fleet does. I see them parked at YYZ but are they all flying each night?