How many hours to get PPL

[kanders]

Once again, I appreciate the feedback. This kind of lively discussion definitely helps me get a better idea of how the process works (from both sides) and I already feel more confident about it. I go to my first ground school class tonight. The flight school I have chosen is only 10 minutes from me but only has 2 instructors on staff so I will be putting in time with both of them to see who's methods I prefer. My C 172 is being repainted right now and won't be ready till the first week in June so it will only be ground school till then. I do understand that the completion time will be greatly affected by how much time and preparation I personally put into it so I hope I can truly dedicate myself to the whole process. I also hope this old dog can learn at least a few new tricks.

[AirFrame]

I had figured it would be in the 60 hour range. After signing up at the flight school and telling them that I had planned to fly 3 - 4 days a week and hoped to be done in that 60 hour range, I was surprised when they smiled politely and suggested 60 - 100 hours.

You're going to be flying 3-4 times a week, in your own aircraft, and they suggest it might take you 100 hours to get your license? FIND ANOTHER SCHOOL!

If that's not an option, once you pick your instructor, get to know him or her really well. Book flights well in advance to ensure you always get the same instructor, that helps avoid the school owner who would like you to get "more variety in your training" by switching you back and forth every second lesson. Switching just means you have to review what you did last time with the previous instructor on every flight, which just drives up the hours-to-license number (and school revenue).

Flying 3-4 days a week you'll probably have very good retention of skills and knowledge between lessons... There's little time to forget things. You're going to come along faster than the people who can only fly on weekends, and usually only once a week as a result, if they keep it up, and don't take long breaks. *Those* are the people who might get near the 100 hour mark, you shouldn't have any trouble doing it in or under 60.

Personally, 45 hours to flight test completion over 51 weeks, flying (on average) once a week (missed a few due to weather). I do come from a flying family though, so I already had some flying skill when I started.

[CpnCrunch]

If you tell us what part of the country you are in, we can give some suggestions for other schools you might want to look at.

[xysn]

I think for me it was like 110 hours over 3 years. I had a day job at the time and was not on an integrated program.

[ahramin]

If he has his own airplane, wouldn't it be better to find an experienced freelancer rather than go through a school?

[photofly]

It would probably save some money. Not a huge amount, but some. Suppose a freelance instructor charges $50/hr, and a flight school for lessons in a customer's aircraft $70, which is close enough to $80 with tax. For 30 Hours dual and 30 hours ground instruction the difference is $1800 total.

[Shiny Side Up]

If he has his own airplane, wouldn't it be better to find an experienced freelancer rather than go through a school?

He just needs to find an experienced instructor, freelance or school one. The usual argument to use a freelancer is to save money, but I would contend that using a freelancer who charges substantially less than what a school would charge, is horribly undervaluing their time, or is worth what you're paying for, if you catch my drift.

Now that said, shop wisely. Schools will try to also ding you for all sorts of other things that if you got your own airplane, you don't need and you can cut costs somewhat there. Don't let them sell you sim time, especially if its the same price as airplane time. Be prepared to be charged to be solo supervised and briefed. You don't have to take ground school at the school you're flying at. You don't have to buy their books - of note there's a great way to save a few bucks, there's lots of used FTMs and FTGUs that work just as well floating around, and a lot that I suspect haven't ever been cracked. Hell borrow if you're really cheap. Don't go cheap on a headset, and especially if a school charges you a rental rate on theirs. Besides, you don't want to use the set the last intro flight barfed on.

[Big Pistons Forever]

If he has his own airplane, wouldn't it be better to find an experienced freelancer rather than go through a school?

In a perfect world absolutely. The problem is many freelancers are F*uckups that couldn't cut it at an FTU. The challenge is "how does a student with no experience pick a good instructor" ? What basis are they to use use in deciding if this guy is a good instructor ?

Also most of the experienced freelancers, myself included, are not really interested in doing another PPL. In my case while I am certainly qualified to do a PPL by virtue of holding a current Class 1 flight instructor rating, all of my recent instruction has been flight instructor ratings, IFR ratings, aerobatics, and formation flying. If some guy showed up with an old C 172 and said "teach me to fly" I would almost certainly pass. The last 3 PPL's I have done were favors to friends.

The advantage with going with an FTU is that there will be a formal program, the school does get some level of oversight from TC, and you will have some choice in instructors so if the first guy/gal is not working for you can change instructors. Once you get your PPL you will have a much better idea of what good instruction looks like and know who is who in the local area, so you can look at using a freelancer for the next level of training.

[ahramin]

All good points Shiny. I was thinking better, not cheaper, but I guess finding a competent freelance instructor comes with it's own set of problems, especially when you don't know what you're looking for.

Edit: I see BPF beat me to it.

[awitzke]

Am I the only here who had a great experience with my instructor? He always did whatever he could to eliminate any extra time in the plane. I guess I'm one of the fortunate people who had a good instructor and got to keep the same on from ab-inito -> CPL/MIFR.

[Broken Slinky]

Am I the only here who had a great experience with my instructor? He always did whatever he could to eliminate any extra time in the plane. I guess I'm one of the fortunate people who had a good instructor and got to keep the same on from ab-inito -> CPL/MIFR.

Can't say anything bad about my instructors. They kept my hours low and encouraged a bit of extra time here and there to correct things I wasn't picking up on. The majority of my hours over the minimum allowable was dual time I requested. I wanted forced approaches and other emergency procedures pounded firmly into my head.

[awitzke]

Yeah, basically the same for me. He was a lower time 400 hour instructor when I started my PPL two years ago and eventually transitioned into a Class 2 MIFR instructor. He's now off to the right seat a local regional in May with an ATPL and 1600 hours. While he did do his time there to gain experience like many instructors do, I never felt like he didn't want to be there. He genuinely wanted to help train good, qualified pilots and it showed with each lesson.

[PilotDAR]

the "instructors" I have had (Im talking about people with instructor ratings, class whatever) have taught me the minimal needed to pass flight tests.

My personal experience has been very different. I have found that instructors I have chosen will teach me amazing things, and inspire me to achieve even more - when I agree on the program, and pay them for their time. Were I to ask for, and pay for the minimum, I would expect that. I ask for, expect and have always received more.

I am not an instructor, though I do advanced type training occasionally. Though I have so far accepted every pilot who sought training from me, there have been a few I declined to train further, after assessing their very modest progress - they just were not cut out for that flying - could not get ahead of the plane.

I find it unhappy that I'll get into their plane with them, and see expensive "elective" equipment installations, but they resist paying for a few hours of extra training that they need. It seems that they prefer to have the equipment more than the skill to fly.

[North Shore]

Constructive comments to help 'Kanders' along his/her path, please stay here.

To participate, laugh at, or shake one's head at the instructor furball, go here:http://www.avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopi ... 3&t=102410

Carry on...

[Shiny Side Up]

the "instructors" I have had (Im talking about people with instructor ratings, class whatever) have taught me the minimal needed to pass flight tests.

My personal experience has been very different. I have found that instructors I have chosen will teach me amazing things, and inspire me to achieve even more - when I agree on the program, and pay them for their time. Were I to ask for, and pay for the minimum, I would expect that. I ask for, expect and have always received more.

That's really part of the taking two to tango part of giving and receiving instruction. Many time I've found that the student doesn't want any more than that, and definitely don't give you any leeway to expand. They want you for as little as possible, and many really begrudge paying for you from the get go, so it really doesn't make for a constructive learning process. As a student, you get out what you put in. Most of the subject matter should have its own motivation to learn or want to learn about. I've found that some students also approach the process with a combative nature, and being at odds with the instructor certainly I can't recommend either. If you don't like, trust, or feel they haven't got anything for you, don't waste your time and money, and their time, but it also doesn't mean one has to be a dick about it either.

I find it unhappy that I'll get into their plane with them, and see expensive "elective" equipment installations, but they resist paying for a few hours of extra training that they need. It seems that they prefer to have the equipment more than the skill to fly.

This is where I always find that these guys end up with the bad instructors, freelance or FTU, since they'll always find someone who meets their demand. Increasingly, I've found that people largely get - for better or worse - the kind of instruction they want. Which doesn't always make them good pilots, but which satisfies whatever demands it is that they have of what they believe flight training should be.

[AirFrame]

Am I the only here who had a great experience with my instructor? He always did whatever he could to eliminate any extra time in the plane. I guess I'm one of the fortunate people who had a good instructor and got to keep the same on from ab-inito -> CPL/MIFR.

My experience with my instructor was great, I had the same one for all but two of my lessons while getting my PPL. I knew him before I started my lessons, and I knew I wanted him for an instructor. When I was ready to learn, I had to use the school he was at, which for the most part was just fine.

I did have to have a firm discussion with the owner of the school after I was told that i'd need to switch instructors more often because I was using up too much of one instructor's time. I made it clear that I came to his school to be taught by the specific instructor I chose, and wasn't interested in jumping around. That discussion ended with a commitment from me that I would reduce the time I was taking with this instructor by trying to finish my PPL in the minimum of 45 hours, and a commitment from the owner that the school would do their best to accommodate me in my attempt.