. . wrote:

Agree all you want. Posting the same condescending point in every new forum does nothing to help anyone. Let those who want to give advice do so.

We do give advice.

If working the ramp was part of being a commercial pilot it would be part of flight training.

The longer one works the ramp the greater the risk of becoming rusty in your flying skills.

Try as hard as I can I can not think of anything I would learn on the ramp that would improve my airplane handling skills.

Is there something really flawed in my thinking?

. I must say since you got off the MOT beating kick i have enjoyed your posts. How ever maybe you can tell us how working at Walmart are McDonalds will improve our help your flying skills while waiting for the direct entry job. Please explain how sitting on your butt at home improves your skills. I hope your not going to respond with at least there they can keep sharp on their computer our play station. Face it there is no right answer but running around telling people not to work the ramp as it beneath you as a pilot is just straight BS. Why don't you just say once you get your commercial pilots licence everything else is beneath you as you are now a pilot and accept nothing less then a position in the cockpit.

By the way sorry for using the Germanair as an example. However i am sure in your career you have seen more then 1 individual that got weeded out because they were just a little off. I know i can think of a few rampies that i am glad never made it into my cockpit.

Summit is owned by Ledcor. I'm pretty sure Ledcor breathalyzes everyone as a policy. When I worked feeling airplanes for Esso, we were subject to random screening. Don't like it? Don't bother to apply.

Drawing the recent accidents into this thread is more than a little off topic. For a quick answer as to why drug and alcohol screening by large companies like Ledcor, you only have to look across the ramp from Summit. If you have forgotten, you can read the Tindi accident report online. Here's the first link that came up: http://www.nnsl.com/frames/newspapers/2 ... 13tsb.html

Feel that this infringes on your right to have beer for breakfast?
1. Don't apply.
2. Don't fly with me.

BE20 Driver wrote:Summit is owned by Ledcor. I'm pretty sure Ledcor breathalyzes everyone as a policy. When I worked feeling airplanes for Esso, we were subject to random screening. Don't like it? Don't bother to apply.

Drawing the recent accidents into this thread is more than a little off topic. For a quick answer as to why drug and alcohol screening by large companies like Ledcor, you only have to look across the ramp from Summit. If you have forgotten, you can read the Tindi accident report online. Here's the first link that came up: http://www.nnsl.com/frames/newspapers/2 ... 13tsb.html

Feel that this infringes on your right to have beer for breakfast?
1. Don't apply.
2. Don't fly with me.

Don't think .. was promoting drinking at work.

leftoftrack wrote:Don't think .. was promoting drinking at work.

Our industry has just as many problems with alcoholism as any other industry. We are no smarter, no less prone to vices or mental illness.

I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. The reasons companies do this are written in blood and suffering. I only pointed out the Tindi crash as a lesson in what can happen when you don't take your profession and all of it's responsibilities seriously.

'nuf said.

Drug and alcohol testing for cause, I get. Random testing is an infringement on basic rights and freedoms, and it shows a total lack of trust in your employees.
With cause, yes.
I'd never consider working for any operation that doesn't trust their employees.
Yes, it's common in the States.
So are school shootings.
Trust your people until you have cause to doubt them.
Illya

Who said its random?

The job ad mentioned "pre-employment" drug and alcohol screening.

I'm thinking that if you pass the screen and get hired, the next time you get tested is if you screw up or give them cause.

Donald wrote:Who said its random?

The job ad mentioned "pre-employment" drug and alcohol screening.

I'm thinking that if you pass the screen and get hired, the next time you get tested is if you screw up or give them cause.

There is a pre-employment screening. This I can live with. However Donald, I suspect they utilize random drug etc., testing as well. Anybody?
Illya

Pre employment screening is legal in Canada. Random testing, even in safety related environments is no longer. It was when I drove a fuel truck. Not now. Summit won't random test. I believe they may do so after an accident but hopefully no one has to find that out.

Always heard great things about the management and airplanes there. Don't let a little pee sample stand in your way of some great flying.

I see many pilot employment ads stating pre-employment drug and alcohol testing/screening but have not met anyone who has actually been tested. Is this a method of deterring potential abusers or does it actually happen. I know I carry employees of the oil companies who are randomly tested but how can a company in Upper Rubber Boot, Ski-dooville test when there are no labs within 1000 miles?

Yes before your first day they will drug and alcohol test you. Confirmed.

So as a nearly 60 year old with 35 years of continuous safe flying I am marked as a potential risk because of a few weak persons indiscretions. Aviation has become a sad place to retire from! I have impeccable references and am more fit than half the 30 year olds I've had the pleasure of flying with and tipping a few with when the day is done. It has become a shameful, litigious industry.

Applied to Summit a couple weeks ago....they called me today and offered me two positions, neither of which was what I had applied for.

I applied for a full-time ramp job offered to pilots looking to get their foot in the door (or so the job ad stated). I also applied for a flight follower/dispatching job.

I was offered a seasonal ramp position from now until September, with no guarantees on an extension and it did not lead to a flying position because of its seasonal nature, according to the lady I was talking to. I was also offered a flight attendant position that would likely not lead to a flying position either.

I thought Summit was a reputable company, definitely an eye opener.

Livin' the dream!

Laner wrote:Applied to Summit a couple weeks ago....they called me today and offered me two positions, neither of which was what I had applied for.

I applied for a full-time ramp job offered to pilots looking to get their foot in the door (or so the job ad stated). I also applied for a flight follower/dispatching job.

I was offered a seasonal ramp position from now until September, with no guarantees on an extension and it did not lead to a flying position because of its seasonal nature, according to the lady I was talking to. I was also offered a flight attendant position that would likely not lead to a flying position either.

I thought Summit was a reputable company, definitely an eye opener.

Would you rather have them hire you for a full time ramp spot and then just lay you off when the season is over? It's not like you applied for a flying job and got offered a ground job. If I were you I'd be happy the company was honest with you, perhaps they filled the full time ramp job and this is all that was left.