Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

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Strega
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Strega »

Lindsey wrote:
Strega wrote:Flight chops is a joke.... product of a typical "flight school" mentality...
what's that supposed to mean?

It means worrying about landing a cherokee on a 2500' strip... worrying about not having a checklist that is 4 pages long for a 172, it means worrying about flying through a cloud because there "might" be ice in it..It means almost crashing because your "flew through some wake turbulence on final..it means worrying about all of the things that an inexperienced instructor will be worried about.. mainly due to the incestuous nature of the flight schools in Canada. I wonder if flight chops uses the acpa radio call?

and for the record... I did not learn to fly in a flight school....
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by photofly »

Doesn't sound like any instructors I know. Guess I'm blessed.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by CpnCrunch »

Strega wrote: it means worrying about flying through a cloud because there "might" be ice in it.
I think the issue is that it's illegal to fly through any clouds if you're above the freezing level and the forecast says "NIL-LGT RIME ICGIC ABV FZLVL" and you're not certified for FIKI.

While I agree that your 172 isn't suddenly going to fall out of the fly if you fly through a tiny cloud on an otherwise VFR day, it probably doesn't exactly show great airmanship to deliberately flout the CARs when you could just fly VFR instead.
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Last edited by CpnCrunch on Mon May 04, 2015 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Strega
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Strega »

Who said anything about breaking the CARS?

FYI there is a difference between being smart and legal.

It is legal to fly a C-208 in known icing.. it is not smart.

It is legal to fly a clapped out flight school 172 over northern Ontario at night.. it is not smart.

It is "ilegal" to fly a 172 IFR (well most anyway), but is much smarter than scudruning.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by iflyforpie »

Strega wrote:Flight chops is a joke.... product of a typical "flight school" mentality...
You know what's a joke? That there is a two-page thread about this authored by a supposed 'professional'.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by photofly »

+1
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by CpnCrunch »

iflyforpie wrote:
Strega wrote:Flight chops is a joke.... product of a typical "flight school" mentality...
You know what's a joke? That there is a two-page thread about this authored by a supposed 'professional'.
A professional what?
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Strega »

My point was Mr aviation actually flies in imc... flight chops does not....

Who would you rather your kids fly with ? Flight chops or Mr aviation?

How many of the so called "professional" ifr instructors on this forum have actually flown an IMC ils in a 172 to minimums ?
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Strega »

A professional what?
whatever you want..
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by photofly »

Strega wrote:My point was Mr aviation actually flies in imc... flight chops does not....

Who would you rather your kids fly with ? Flight chops or Mr aviation?

How many of the so called "professional" ifr instructors on this forum have actually flown an IMC ils in a 172 to minimums ?
On that video that you like so much, did you realize that it was not only the student's first (only?) time flying an ILS to minimums, but it was the instructor's first time too?
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Rookie50 »

photofly wrote:
Strega wrote:My point was Mr aviation actually flies in imc... flight chops does not....

Who would you rather your kids fly with ? Flight chops or Mr aviation?

How many of the so called "professional" ifr instructors on this forum have actually flown an IMC ils in a 172 to minimums ?
On that video that you like so much, did you realize that it was not only the student's first (only?) time flying an ILS to minimums, but it was the instructor's first time too?
+1. And I guess not worrying includes the risk of flying into embedded CB's....worrying is for wimps I guess.

Prior to the ILS video...is one I happened upon with the students first time in actual IMC...so these 2 decide for this inaugural occasion to take off at night, in moderate rain, (according to them) modestly low ceiling, multiple layers, in this famed 172 with no backup vacuum source or any kind of radar, nexrad or otherwise...and cold enough they decided to run carb heat the whole time in the IMC climb.......

All perfectly prudent? I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Strega »

. And I guess not worrying includes the risk of flying into embedded CB's....worrying is for wimps I guess.
I guess you didnt watch the video,, undercast was around 5500 or so... didnt look like much convective activity...

his famed 172 with no backup vacuum source or any kind of radar,
Perhaps you should write a letter to the FAA and TCCA asking for them to change the law with respect to mel for ifr flying.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Rookie50 »

Strega wrote:
. And I guess not worrying includes the risk of flying into embedded CB's....worrying is for wimps I guess.
I guess you didnt watch the video,, undercast was around 5500 or so... didnt look like much convective activity...

his famed 172 with no backup vacuum source or any kind of radar,
Perhaps you should write a letter to the FAA and TCCA asking for them to change the law with respect to mel for ifr flying.
It's not what's legal, it's what's considered wise considering the combination of weather conditions, ones experience, and the class of airplane. And on that I think our opinions differ.

I'm very conservative and proud of it, and no I haven't stayed in the home patch, either.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Shiny Side Up »

photofly wrote:
Shiny Side Up wrote:Amazingly they also overcame any obstacles that flight schools, instructors and the regulator, all tools of some nameless old-one underdemon placed in their way.
Cthulhu is working for Transport, now? :shock:
I thought I was clear it was the other pnomus way around, though the old one's minions are clever so its easy to be confused.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by photofly »

You must admit, there's a certain likeness.

The minister:
lisa_rait.jpg
lisa_rait.jpg (63.74 KiB) Viewed 2022 times
The Old One:
cthulhu.jpeg
cthulhu.jpeg (33.61 KiB) Viewed 2022 times
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Strega »

FYI here is "flight chops IFR"

"perfect IFR weather day"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCMJ7V0WqhA
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by PositiveRate27 »

Strega wrote:FYI here is "flight chops IFR"

"perfect IFR weather day"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCMJ7V0WqhA

So a guy who is brand new to IFR likes the idea of enough cloud cover to do some cloud surfing, but not down to minimums thinks it's a perfect IFR day? Whats the problem? Why does that bother you? Why does a person's excitement about something new and unfamiliar bother you? No wonder general aviation is dying.

If you aren't the arbitrary "real deal" on day one then you have no business here at all? Is that the message I should send to my little brother who is working on his private license? Should I belittle him and crush his enthusiasm because he gets excited about what I find routine? Should I be harboring contempt for him and the mistakes he makes simply because he hasn't experienced them yet?

I'm just curious because I wan't to make sure that putting down other people who look up to us is the cool thing to do. I definitely wan't to be one of the cool kids.

PR
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Big Pistons Forever »

Anybody who still doesn't get a kick out of cloud surfing is dead inside, and it is why god invented block altitude clearances. :D

But seriously much as I find this guy pretty aggravating to listen to, the video isn't a bad depiction of a real world A to B flight. Tune out the over top "OMG isn't this IFR thing so cool" hype and you get to see the real time enroute wx analysis/route planning/fuel monitoring, decision making that is normal in line flying but hardly ever covered in IFR training.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Rookie50 »

PositiveRate27 wrote:
Strega wrote:FYI here is "flight chops IFR"

"perfect IFR weather day"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCMJ7V0WqhA

So a guy who is brand new to IFR likes the idea of enough cloud cover to do some cloud surfing, but not down to minimums thinks it's a perfect IFR day? Whats the problem? Why does that bother you? Why does a person's excitement about something new and unfamiliar bother you? No wonder general aviation is dying.

If you aren't the arbitrary "real deal" on day one then you have no business here at all? Is that the message I should send to my little brother who is working on his private license? Should I belittle him and crush his enthusiasm because he gets excited about what I find routine? Should I be harboring contempt for him and the mistakes he makes simply because he hasn't experienced them yet?

I'm just curious because I wan't to make sure that putting down other people who look up to us is the cool thing to do. I definitely wan't to be one of the cool kids.

PR
+++1 to every word. And in this still humble low timers opinion, assuming well clear of convective, those are pretty good conditions to break into IFR flying -- and how I started. Nice and easy, I was counseled, and it was wise counsel.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Shiny Side Up »

Not sure about the rest of you guys, but I always thought the "perfect IFR day" was always where the weather was just bad enough to keep the VFR traffic on the ground, but not so hair-raisingly terrible to require approaches to minimums and all those other things that life doesn't need since its already hazardous enough.

That said, Doing an ILS approach to minimums on a reasonable IFR day I didn't find as worriesome as doing some silly NDB approach to DH, knowing there's rising terrain lurking around. But that's just me.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Andy Furlong »

It's a shame that Flight Chops is getting such a grilling in some of these posts. Personally, I find him a great inspiration. He puts a lot of time into producing some quality video footage. I found myself absorbed. Maybe that's because I'm a novice, but there are many like me, just looking for others who share the enthusiasm for aviation. He gets a thumbs up from me!
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Rookie50 »

Big Pistons Forever wrote:Anybody who still doesn't get a kick out of cloud surfing is dead inside, and it is why god invented block altitude clearances. :D

But seriously much as I find this guy pretty aggravating to listen to, the video isn't a bad depiction of a real world A to B flight. Tune out the over top "OMG isn't this IFR thing so cool" hype and you get to see the real time enroute wx analysis/route planning/fuel monitoring, decision making that is normal in line flying but hardly ever covered in IFR training.
I still find cloud surfing cool.

Upon reflection flight chops is more valuable -- and less dangerous -- than mr aviation because it's profiling someone experiencing things at the novice level, and describing the learning that comes out of that, at the novice level. Maybe corny to a lot of us, but to someone brand new I'll bet it isn't.

That's a whole lot better than messing with (potentially) convective IMC at night in a basic 172 and promoting that as no big deal, whether experienced or not (and he isn't, which is the point)

I just returned from a trip where I had to deal with significant (unforcast) convective activity and significant deviations, in a 182 with stormscope and nexrad, during the day, and I was visual most of the time. Even with all that, I was thankful for the extremely professional controller who proactively backed up my picture and plan with his primary radar, and gave vectors before even being asked. Nice -- and not always the case.

That stuff isn't for ones first IFR flight, and at night -- no thanks.
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by darkskyequeen »

As a newbie Im thankful for someone like flightchops putting themselves out there on youtube so that I can have better chance at being a safer pilot. Ive learned so much from his channel... more on his compared to many others that I've come across (especially those that add very little context). I also like how he talks to an audience that is more fresh to aviation and I'm sure the more experienced aviators out there could at the very least appreciate the production quality. It's hard to find quality content on youtube and he's a gem!
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Re: Theres flight chops.. and then theres the real deal..

Post by Andy Furlong »

Darkskyqueen, I think you have the same respect for FlightChops as I do. I don't sense any snobbery in his attitude (no pun intended). In his latest video he introduces an aviation fanatic to flying. I think he has a genuine desire to inspire others to experience the joy of aviation and pleasure flying can bring. If there were more people like him, that wouldn't be a bad thing. Good luck to him, I say!
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