Porter or Air Georgian

[Rowdy]

Can someone confirm there is a PML contract in place at this time? I know it was rumoured and much talked about, but I hadn't seen anything concrete.

[JohnnyHotRocks]

I do recall that ad for the $40000 bond. I think it was for a director of training or some other management pilot type

[gtanorth]

PML is in place between all express partners and AC. If you know someone there I am sure they can give you a copy.

there has never been a 40K bond for anything

[Tanker299]

There was some ad out that had a 4 year bond. I don't recall the figure but it was for more then a pilot. It could have been a fake but there was something fishy a while ago. The crj is 1 yr 12k pro rated from day 1. Bonds do suck and I don't agree with them but I know lots of pilots who were supposed to be honourable people but still jumped ship the second a jet job came up. Most of the folks I know who worked for free, jumped bonds or said hey my word is my bond but popped smoke and got out have jobs on jets now no matter how many pilots or companies they screwed over. All that said you have treat your life like its the most important business of all and as we know a company will not hesitate to drop you if they deem it in their best interest.

[airworthyb]

Can someone confirm there is a PML contract in place at this time? I know it was rumoured and much talked about, but I hadn't seen anything concrete.

There is a PML at Air Georgian, bunch of interviews and at least 3 or 4 have already gone to AC last I heard.

[fish4life]

That's the biggest problem with the PML is it is only an interview.

[gtanorth]

7 to 9 gone now from AGL with a few more with course dates. How else can you get an interview guaranteed? So far I think it is a slim minority from Sky or AGL that have not been hired - I'd guess over 90% between the 2 companies get the nod.

[flying4dollars]

Playing "Devil's Advocate", if this is true, then why even have a bond if the carrot of an AC interview is what will hold people to GGN (and not the current wawcon) ?

Because guys have gone to Jazz, Porter, Encore, and even quit aviation all together etc within the year. The bond is in place for that reason. You certainly don't put up any money, unlike some theories here suggest. If you end up at Air Canada or WestJet mainline, they waive the bond. Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Not everyone is here for the PML, but it certainly makes the pot sweeter coming here.

[wabitzer]

Go where you get the first offer... and if it's not on the jet, quit Porter and take it.

Neither are career spots for a motivated individual who wants to progress their career. Keep that in mind. You don't want to work there for years to come.

Pay is probably close, schedules not too far apart and that jet time will go further than -8 time in most future employers eyes, x10 if you ever try to go overseas.

Besides the jet job gets you 1/2 decent passes with an international carrier, slight inside track to AC and a place to park when you go to work...

Plus you avoid the gong show that is Porter and YTZ. A company that although had a recent cash injection is oft thought to be teetering and far from a stable workplace... and we all know the C series is not coming and if it did there are 300 other guys ahead of you drinking the Koolaid with their fingers crossed...

FWIW I know a bunch dying to get out of Porter - like considering just giving it up they can't take it anymore - dying... I don't know anyone at GGN but it's probably the not far off. You don't want to work a whole career flying regional with any of these guys. Anyone who thinks a regional airline pilot job is a great long term career job needs a punch in the face.

Take no prisoners and do what's best for you.

Please help me finish this sentence.

Prior to submitting the above post this individual was likely......

I say "slitting his wrists."

Wait no "tying the noose to hang himself."

[Jack Klumpus]

Go where you get the first offer... and if it's not on the jet, quit Porter and take it.

Neither are career spots for a motivated individual who wants to progress their career. Keep that in mind. You don't want to work there for years to come.

Pay is probably close, schedules not too far apart and that jet time will go further than -8 time in most future employers eyes, x10 if you ever try to go overseas.

Besides the jet job gets you 1/2 decent passes with an international carrier, slight inside track to AC and a place to park when you go to work...

Plus you avoid the gong show that is Porter and YTZ. A company that although had a recent cash injection is oft thought to be teetering and far from a stable workplace... and we all know the C series is not coming and if it did there are 300 other guys ahead of you drinking the Koolaid with their fingers crossed...

FWIW I know a bunch dying to get out of Porter - like considering just giving it up they can't take it anymore - dying... I don't know anyone at GGN but it's probably the not far off. You don't want to work a whole career flying regional with any of these guys. Anyone who thinks a regional airline pilot job is a great long term career job needs a punch in the face.

Take no prisoners and do what's best for you.

Wow. You seem to love Porter. Now I understand why you're on the Jumpseat blacklist. I can guarantee to the readers, from my experience of working at porter, none of what you said are true. You have never worked there and your hate comes from personal issues you had with them.

Ytz is a gong show? Why? One day of bad WX? I fly all around the world and guess what. These things happen. Ytz is a charming and challenging airport. Operating there can be like flying in a club or perhaps a captai. Only landing in honking winds during a blizzard.

Porters going bankrupt? Aren't you tired of this? Since they opened up almost 10 years ago, I've been hearing this. I actually delayed my application due to this rumor. Thank god I smartened up and sent it in when I did. At porter I was able to transform from a bush captain, to a captain on a 705 in Canada. Btw. Have you been a captain at a 705 company?

Anyways, I worked at porter for more than a few years. It was one of the most rewarding jobs I have had in my relatively short career. The opportunities, the people, the airplane, all were fantastic.

Your post comes off quite immature. Anyone who's been in aviation for a while, understand that there are more than one road that lead to 'the big iron'. I had all turboprop time, and I'm overseas flying to big iron. I'd be here as well had I flown the RJ.

Your posts shows the reader how much hate you have, along with personal issues. It's far from being useful advise.

It sounds like this poster might be a young pilot starting out. Balance your motivation with lifestyle. Don't forget that we're only here once. I guarantee you that at porter you will have a great lifestyle. I'm pretty sure GGN wil also have a bunch of good people to learn from and enjoy working with.

See where you wanna live. What your long term plans are, and take it from there.

Btw, you only have a choice if you have both offers on the table.

[altiplano]

Did I hurt your feelings Klumpus? You sure like to make it personal.

Maybe it's your apparent reading deficiency? Or your maturity that should be questioned?

I just call it like I see it...

I said take either one but the jet job gives a better potential opportunity to move on. Do you disagree?

I said don't plan to make a career at any regional airline? Do you disagree?

I said both are similar jobs, pay/sched/etc, and I do know a bunch dying to get out of Porter, I said there are probably a bunch dying to get out of GGN too, I just don't know them... You just don't want to stay at any of these carriers longer than to get what you need... Are you saying everyone at Porter loves it?

Re:YTZ as a gong show:
Yeah IROPs are a big part of that, low wx, contamination, curfew, all are going to screw your day... ending up stuck with 75 pax for 3 hours on the cargo ramp at YYZ waiting for a bus, or out at YHM because you missed curfew. Yeah these things do happen, but they were certainly not isolated occurrences in my experience, and the recovery always stunk.

It wouldn't have happened if it was into YYZ.

Hey, do the employees have anywhere to park yet? At least the tunnel is open I suppose so you don't have to deal with that wretched ferry.

Re: bankruptcy:
I didn't say it's going bankrupt, it has endured and they recently took in a pile of cash from the terminal sale. But really nobody knows what RD has planned, I think most would agree he (and his investors) didn't plan to be where they are today. I think there are too many questions, if I had to choose between then, I would take it into account.

BTW, yeah, I've been a captain and I fly big iron all around the world too. I just don't feel the need to stroke it all off on a webpage to bolster my arguments.

[Jack Klumpus]

Did I hurt your feelings Klumpus? You sure like to make it personal.

Maybe it's your apparent reading deficiency? Or your maturity that should be questioned?

I just call it like I see it...

I said take either one but the jet job gives a better potential opportunity to move on. Do you disagree?

I said don't plan to make a career at any regional airline? Do you disagree?

You didn't hurt my feelings at all, so don't worry about that.

I do disagree that flying at GGN gives better potential opportunity. Also, I have many friends who make regional flying their career. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. If you happen to look down at colleagues, don't think for a second that this is normal, and that everyone thinks like you do.

I said both are similar jobs, pay/sched/etc, and I do know a bunch dying to get out of Porter, I said there are probably a bunch dying to get out of GGN too, I just don't know them... You just don't want to stay at any of these carriers longer than to get what you need... Are you saying everyone at Porter loves it?

Similar? not at all. At PD, I used to have anywhere between 15-18 days off. I would bring in well in the 6 digits doing that. I would also have 3 weeks off every 2 months.

I think the people you seem to 'know' might share your enthusiastic and friendly outlook, hence the dying to get out. Any pilot at Porter is qualified for the 'next' job, hence if they are dying to get out, it might just be that they have issues that are preventing them from getting out. It's not a jail, and the market is quite good at the moment.

It's people like you that make pilots look bad. Going around and using each company for what you want. Ever heard of professionalism?

Did I say that everyone at Porter loves it? Please don't play this game.

Re:YTZ as a gong show:
Yeah IROPs are a big part of that, low wx, contamination, curfew, all are going to screw your day... ending up stuck with 75 pax for 3 hours on the cargo ramp at YYZ waiting for a bus, or out at YHM because you missed curfew. Yeah these things do happen, but they were certainly not isolated occurrences in my experience, and the recovery always stunk.

It wouldn't have happened if it was into YYZ.

Have you conducted a survey about the percentage of flights that end up in YYZ or YHM out of the total number of flights at Porter? For a challenging airport, and for it's convenience, yes, there are some hard rules that operaters into the island cannot play with nor get around. Therefore, on the rare occasions that they have to divert, it may cause an inconvenience to the passengers, and to the crews. When Porter does divert to YYZ, they do not park at the ramp, they park at T3. Why are you making stories up? Makes you feel better? Also, where did you get this 3 hours from? Again, share your specific experience with us, don't just throw stories and numbers out there.

Did the recovery really stink? Poor you. Did it happen to you personally? As a full paying customer? Or were you flying for free and thought the experience stunk? If you were a full paying customer, why didn't you complain? Send a letter to the CEO and tell him how you feel things could be done differently?

Hey, do the employees have anywhere to park yet? At least the tunnel is open I suppose so you don't have to deal with that wretched ferry.

There is no dedicated staff parking. This is downtown Toronto, how many companies in downtown have free staff parking for their employees? You don't work there, so you don't have to worry about it. I was there for 5 years and not once was this an issue for me. It's called knowing your surroundings and having plans. Something you may wanna practice.

Re: bankruptcy:
I didn't say it's going bankrupt, it has endured and they recently took in a pile of cash from the terminal sale. But really nobody knows what RD has planned, I think most would agree he (and his investors) didn't plan to be where they are today. I think there are too many questions, if I had to choose between then, I would take it into account.

You said it's not stable. Can you explain why it's not stable? in 10 years (almost) have they ever laid any employee off? Have they cancelled routes? Sold any airplanes? Downgraded their operation? Please explain to me what has been unstable about Porter in their 10 year history.

BTW, yeah, I've been a captain and I fly big iron all around the world too. I just don't feel the need to stroke it all off on a webpage to bolster my arguments.

I mentioned my credentials to show that Porter played a huge role into getting me where I am today.

You were a captain? really? Not in a 705 my friend. Many of us here know who you are, you can fool others, but not me.

[zetakai]

Let me clear it up. As far as regionals go. Jazz is where you want to be. Porter great co too. Many friends at both. Run well managed well. Ggn and sky, have set the industry back 20 years. All of our unions fought for better wages and lifestyle, and these companies and pilots who choose to fly for them have no regard or insight in the indusrty. Jazz and ac have a deep history and will always be present. Ggn and sky can go overnight and no one cares other than jazz will have to pick up slack and they will. Ac is not the end all be all. If you want to go there go, or corporate, or stay at jazz. I would steer clear of ggn and sky from what hear from higher ups . As far as the whole i need jet time. Bs. Jets are WAY easier to fly waaaaayyyy easier. No one should care about methods of propulsion. My biggest beef is with pilots who are willing to accept a crappy deal in a crappy co. We all need to stand united and not accept less than mc donalds starting wages. But somehow we do. Ps go to jazz.

[A V I A T O]

Jazz new hire here. This place is super legit.

I hope we keep the bar high, so GGN and SKV guys and gals can be elevated to a lifestyle similar to what Jazz has to offer.

[AirMail]

Let me clear it up. As far as regionals go. Jazz is where you want to be. Porter great co too. Many friends at both. Run well managed well. Ggn and sky, have set the industry back 20 years. All of our unions fought for better wages and lifestyle, and these companies and pilots who choose to fly for them have no regard or insight in the indusrty. LOLOLOL really? You must be new Jazz and ac have a deep history and will always be present. Ggn and sky can go overnight and no one cares other than jazz will have to pick up slack and they will. Ac is not the end all be all. If you want to go there go, or corporate, or stay at jazz. I would steer clear of ggn and sky from what hear from higher ups . As far as the whole i need jet time. Bs. Jets are WAY easier to fly waaaaayyyy easier. No one should care about methods of propulsion. My biggest beef is with pilots who are willing to accept a crappy deal in a crappy co. That would include Jazz that you so recommendWe all need to stand united and not accept less than mc donalds starting wages. But somehow we do. Ps go to jazz.

Jazz new hire here. This place is super legit.

I hope we keep the bar high, so GGN and SKV guys and gals can be elevated to a lifestyle similar to what Jazz has to offer.

Where does Jazz find these guys??

[floats4fun]

My thoughts exactly. Kool aid much?

[goingnowherefast]

Sky Regional and Porter offer higher starting pay than Jazz, by quite abit. Porter pilots seem to be quite happy and Sky Regional is improving more and more as they gain experience as a company.

Out of the two options listed in the thread title, I'd pick Porter hands down, no questions asked.

[PROC_HDG]

Let me clear it up. As far as regionals go. Jazz is where you want to be. Porter great co too. Many friends at both. Run well managed well. Ggn and sky, have set the industry back 20 years. All of our unions fought for better wages and lifestyle, and these companies and pilots who choose to fly for them have no regard or insight in the indusrty. Jazz and ac have a deep history and will always be present. Ggn and sky can go overnight and no one cares other than jazz will have to pick up slack and they will. Ac is not the end all be all. If you want to go there go, or corporate, or stay at jazz. I would steer clear of ggn and sky from what hear from higher ups . As far as the whole i need jet time. Bs. Jets are WAY easier to fly waaaaayyyy easier. No one should care about methods of propulsion. My biggest beef is with pilots who are willing to accept a crappy deal in a crappy co. We all need to stand united and not accept less than mc donalds starting wages. But somehow we do. Ps go to jazz.

Coming from the guys that sold out new hire pay to get a shot at mainline.

PROC_HDG

[JohnnyHotRocks]

Yes...and what about that whole 757 thing years ago??

[MrTurbine]

Let me clear it up. As far as regionals go. Jazz is where you want to be. Porter great co too. Many friends at both. Run well managed well. Ggn and sky, have set the industry back 20 years. All of our unions fought for better wages and lifestyle, and these companies and pilots who choose to fly for them have no regard or insight in the indusrty. LOLOLOL really? You must be new Jazz and ac have a deep history and will always be present. Ggn and sky can go overnight and no one cares other than jazz will have to pick up slack and they will. Ac is not the end all be all. If you want to go there go, or corporate, or stay at jazz. I would steer clear of ggn and sky from what hear from higher ups . As far as the whole i need jet time. Bs. Jets are WAY easier to fly waaaaayyyy easier. No one should care about methods of propulsion. My biggest beef is with pilots who are willing to accept a crappy deal in a crappy co. That would include Jazz that you so recommendWe all need to stand united and not accept less than mc donalds starting wages. But somehow we do. Ps go to jazz.

Jazz new hire here. This place is super legit.

I hope we keep the bar high, so GGN and SKV guys and gals can be elevated to a lifestyle similar to what Jazz has to offer.

Where does Jazz find these guys??

Hahaha no kidding! I had the same attitude many years ago when I was flying a little airplane, and a great company offered me a right seat gig in a big airplane for the first time ever.
I thought the company was blessed from the Almighty, the staff were angels, and the aircraft were the most beautiful pieces of artwork that I would ever come across.

To all you low time new hires in 705, good job for working hard and making it where you are today, you have done well. But don't forget that you have a looooong way to go, and as you get older and more mature, your outlook on life and being a pilot changes. It's great that you currently think that your respective company is the best thing that has happened to Canadian Aviation, but please don't diss other companies because of it.
All employers have their positive and negatives (some more than others). Just be greatful that somebody out there is paying you to live your childhood dream. And if or when you leave your current employer for bigger and better things, make sure you thank them for the opportunity that they gave you to be able to move on to bigger and better things. No widebody captain jumped from left seat on a Cessna right in there. They all did their hard time in various places, and are probably greatful for the adventures and memories , good times and bad along the way, that made them who they are today.

[Black_Tusk]

Jazz new hire here. This place is super legit.

I hope we keep the bar high, so GGN and SKV guys and gals can be elevated to a lifestyle similar to what Jazz has to offer.

[Black_Tusk]

Go fly for GGN if you enjoy having management tell you your vacation was taken away.

[goingnowherefast]

Go fly for Jazz if you want to be forced out of your base and your home town, selling out new hires for the PML, low starting pay, the list goes on....
Seriously guys, this has passed immature and is getting dumb. No company is perfect (even Air Canada has it's faults), just work for the one that suits you the best.

I'm all for sharing experiences, that's how people find out what company suits them and where to apply. This bashing "the other guys" because they have different priorities than you doesn't look good on you, or the company you represent.

Remember, we're all in the same game. We want to go to work, fly safe and go home. Let's be mature.

[sstaurus]

It seems to me because of the state of the industry right now the guys getting into 705 these days are so young they don't know what a 705 job should offer. They are either still living with their parents or just moved out and are so happy to just be on a big shiny plane they'll accept any conditions given to them. In general all pilots need to be asking more from their employers...At my own employer I'm still surprised what guys/girls will lay down and take since they still have stars in their eyes. I guess it will just take some time until lifestyle starts to become more important..

[mbav8r]

Go fly for Jazz if you want to be forced out of your base and your home town, selling out new hires for the PML, low starting pay, the list goes on

You'd have to be a little simple to not realize the cause of everything you listed, the base was closed because all of the Jet flying out of YYZ is being transferred to GGN and SR, the new contract you mentioned, same cause. We had NO leverage, if we said no what do you think would have happened?
SR pilots better be careful, if you get too costly, well we all know what happens!