Chaxterium wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:35 am

Axial Flow wrote: ↑Wed Nov 13, 2019 2:02 am As stated above, it is 24 months or 5 years with integrated. In my case it was 4 years since I wrote and they issued the type rating on an IATRA so it all depends on who you get processing your license.

It doesn't depend though. The regs are very clear on the matter. The ATPL exams are valid for two years (five years for integrated as you mentioned). But, if you wrote the exams, and then got a type rating on a two-crew aircraft shortly thereafter, then the exams do not expire. If it takes you 10 years from that point to fulfill the time requirements for the ATPL, so be it. The exams are still valid.

Ok so I got my IATRA late 2018 and just got type rated in the last few months... What happens if I don't write my ATPL exams by the time my IATRA written expires next year? My issue is I could very well not have the hours required to write my ATPL exams by this time next year

Correct me if I am wrong, but what do ATPL exams have to do with IATRA? If you want an ATPL, you need to have your exams done in the two year period before the application for ATPL, UNLESS you meet the requirements under CARS 400.03 (which is outlined above somewhere - and I confirmed by referring to the TC website).

When talking to TC about your specific situation, you need an Inspector - they will know what is going on. Do not attempt to discuss it with the office staff. It is a waste of your time and theirs.

I plan to bring a copy of CARS 400.03 into their office when applying for my own ATPL.

IATRA is designed for getting a two crew or high performance type rating, or to give people a vague notion of what might be going on if they want to act as a relief pilot on long trips for big airlines. Period. If you have ATPL already, you do not need IATRA.

That said, I think IATRA is a good prep for the ATPLs.

Since my previous posts, it has become much clearer to me, what is required for ATPL. Please comment if anybody has any other input.

twa22 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:12 am Ok so I got my IATRA late 2018 and just got type rated in the last few months... What happens if I don't write my ATPL exams by the time my IATRA written expires next year? My issue is I could very well not have the hours required to write my ATPL exams by this time next year

Nothing happens. You'll still have your type rating and you'll still be able to fly as a first officer in perpetuity. You don't need an ATPL to be a first officer. Remember that the IATRA has nothing to do with the ATPL. The IATRA exists simply as a shortcut for pilots to be able to get a two-crew type rating without having the ATPL exams written. The problem that you're going to have to deal with in the future though is that you're still going to have to write the ATPL exams before you are eligible to go left seat. The nice thing is that you really don't have to worry about the two-year validity any more. Once it becomes obvious that an upgrade is in the near future—and you are close to the ATPL hour requirements—then go ahead and write the exams.

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Sat Nov 16, 2019 6:34 pm

twa22 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:12 am Ok so I got my IATRA late 2018 and just got type rated in the last few months... What happens if I don't write my ATPL exams by the time my IATRA written expires next year? My issue is I could very well not have the hours required to write my ATPL exams by this time next year

Nothing happens. You'll still have your type rating and you'll still be able to fly as a first officer in perpetuity. You don't need an ATPL to be a first officer. Remember that the IATRA has nothing to do with the ATPL. The IATRA exists simply as a shortcut for pilots to be able to get a two-crew type rating without having the ATPL exams written. The problem that you're going to have to deal with in the future though is that you're still going to have to write the ATPL exams before you are eligible to go left seat. The nice thing is that you really don't have to worry about the two-year validity any more. Once it becomes obvious that an upgrade is in the near future—and you are close to the ATPL hour requirements—then go ahead and write the exams.

That makes sense but I should've worded my question a bit differently.

So, I am now type rated and i'm flying as an FO. Let's say that at the beginning of 2021, I get a new job on a different plane which requires a new type rating.

What happens then?

My Iatra written would no longer be valid (It expires end of 2020), and let's say I haven't written my atpls because I don't have 750 hours to sit the exams... What happens then? I'm guessing I either need to rewrite the IATRA to be issued a new type rating, OR I get the 750 hours, write the atpls and that obviously allows for a new type rating, and then I have 2 years to meet the reqs and get signed off

twa22 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:00 am That makes sense but I should've worded my question a bit differently.

So, I am now type rated and i'm flying as an FO. Let's say that at the beginning of 2021, I get a new job on a different plane which requires a new type rating.

What happens then?

My Iatra written would no longer be valid (It expires end of 2020), and let's say I haven't written my atpls because I don't have 750 hours to sit the exams... What happens then? I'm guessing I either need to rewrite the IATRA to be issued a new type rating, OR I get the 750 hours, write the atpls and that obviously allows for a new type rating, and then I have 2 years to meet the reqs and get signed off

Once again nothing happens. You don't have to re-write the IATRA every time you get a new type rating. Once you have the IATRA, and you have a type rating, you never need to write it again. As it stands right now, you could go the rest of your career without ever having to write another TC exam; but of course you'd be limited to only operating as a first officer.

421.40(3)(a)(i) (A) in the case of the holder of a Private Pilot Licence-Aeroplane or Commercial Pilot Licence-Aeroplane, within the 24 months preceding the application for the first endorsement of the two crew rating, an applicant shall have obtained a minimum score of 70 percent (70%) on the Type Rating-Aeroplane (IATRA) written examination;

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 5:16 am

twa22 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 17, 2019 2:00 am That makes sense but I should've worded my question a bit differently.

So, I am now type rated and i'm flying as an FO. Let's say that at the beginning of 2021, I get a new job on a different plane which requires a new type rating.

What happens then?

My Iatra written would no longer be valid (It expires end of 2020), and let's say I haven't written my atpls because I don't have 750 hours to sit the exams... What happens then? I'm guessing I either need to rewrite the IATRA to be issued a new type rating, OR I get the 750 hours, write the atpls and that obviously allows for a new type rating, and then I have 2 years to meet the reqs and get signed off

Once again nothing happens. You don't have to re-write the IATRA every time you get a new type rating. Once you have the IATRA, and you have a type rating, you never need to write it again. As it stands right now, you could go the rest of your career without ever having to write another TC exam; but of course you'd be limited to only operating as a first officer.

421.40(3)(a)(i) (A) in the case of the holder of a Private Pilot Licence-Aeroplane or Commercial Pilot Licence-Aeroplane, within the 24 months preceding the application for the first endorsement of the two crew rating, an applicant shall have obtained a minimum score of 70 percent (70%) on the Type Rating-Aeroplane (IATRA) written examination;

Makes sense, thanks for the clarification. There is no doubt I will write the atpls when the time comes, just have to make sure i'm close to the requirements as you said.

Cheers

Best of luck! I highly recommend the Aerocourse for the ATPL exams. I did the course over the weekend and wrote both exams first thing Monday morning. Worked like a charm!

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:03 am Best of luck! I highly recommend the Aerocourse for the ATPL exams. I did the course over the weekend and wrote both exams first thing Monday morning. Worked like a charm!

Thanks and thank you for the info!

Hey Folks, just wanted to confirm that I am on the right track here. I wrote my ATPL , then got a BE02 type rating , followed by a SAAB type rating. Now, my two year validity for my A's have lapsed. Once I get the ATPL hours requirements , do I need to rewrite my A's once again for my ATPL application, or are they now considered frozen ? Thanks

Hhassan89 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:41 pm Hey Folks, just wanted to confirm that I am on the right track here. I wrote my ATPL , then got a BE02 type rating , followed by a SAAB type rating. Now, my two year validity for my A's have lapsed. Once I get the ATPL hours requirements , do I need to rewrite my A's once again for my ATPL application, or are they now considered frozen ? Thanks

The Beech 1900 does nothing but the Saab 340 should lock the exams.

Hhassan89 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:41 pm Hey Folks, just wanted to confirm that I am on the right track here. I wrote my ATPL , then got a BE02 type rating , followed by a SAAB type rating. Now, my two year validity for my A's have lapsed. Once I get the ATPL hours requirements , do I need to rewrite my A's once again for my ATPL application, or are they now considered frozen ? Thanks

You may want to clarify with TC on this. The wording of the regs is that the ATPL exams must have been written for the purposes of obtaining a two-crew type rating, and that rating must have been acquired.

Typically this means that you write the ATPL exams and then immediately obtain two-crew type rating. You didn't do that. You wrote the exams, got a type rating that doesn't require the exams, and then got a two-crew type rating.

One could argue that since you got the 1900 rating first you didn't write the exams for the purposes of obtaining a two-crew type rating.

I would like to think that TC would be reasonable over something like this but being reasonable isn't TC's forté.

Just to give you an idea of how silly this can be, an old colleague of mine was hired to fly a Dash 7. He only had his CPL so he wrote the IATRA exam. He got the Dash 7 type rating and then wrote the ATPL exams a little while later. After two years, when it was time to get his ATPL signed off TC made him write the exams again....despite having a two-crew type rating and despite having the ATPL exams written. All because he got the two-crew type rating first, and then wrote the exams. By the letter of the law TC was right.

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 4:48 pm

Hhassan89 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 25, 2023 7:41 pm Hey Folks, just wanted to confirm that I am on the right track here. I wrote my ATPL , then got a BE02 type rating , followed by a SAAB type rating. Now, my two year validity for my A's have lapsed. Once I get the ATPL hours requirements , do I need to rewrite my A's once again for my ATPL application, or are they now considered frozen ? Thanks

You may want to clarify with TC on this. The wording of the regs is that the ATPL exams must have been written for the purposes of obtaining a two-crew type rating, and that rating must have been acquired.

Typically this means that you write the ATPL exams and then immediately obtain two-crew type rating. You didn't do that. You wrote the exams, got a type rating that doesn't require the exams, and then got a two-crew type rating.

One could argue that since you got the 1900 rating first you didn't write the exams for the purposes of obtaining a two-crew type rating.

I don't think that's accurate. They would've needed at least IATRA for the SAAB, so they should be good. It's basically the same as writing the IATRA, then waiting a year to get the SAAB rating vs. writing IATRA, just flying a BE02 around for a bit beforehand, then getting a SAAB type rating.

Just to give you an idea of how silly this can be, an old colleague of mine was hired to fly a Dash 7. He only had his CPL so he wrote the IATRA exam. He got the Dash 7 type rating and then wrote the ATPL exams a little while later. After two years, when it was time to get his ATPL signed off TC made him write the exams again....despite having a two-crew type rating and despite having the ATPL exams written. All because he got the two-crew type rating first, and then wrote the exams. By the letter of the law TC was right.

In this case, your friend never actually used the ATPL exams to receive a type rating, so TC is in fact correct. If they had gotten a type rating AFTER writing the ATPLs, they wouldn't have had to rewrite them

Fly0nTheWall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:21 am I don't think that's accurate. They would've needed at least IATRA for the SAAB, so they should be good. It's basically the same as writing the IATRA, then waiting a year to get the SAAB rating vs. writing IATRA, just flying a BE02 around for a bit beforehand, then getting a SAAB type rating.

I hope you're right. But I'm just not sure. The timeline is very specific.

• 1. ATPL exams

• 2. Two-crew type rating

But they didn't do that. They did:

• 1. ATPL exams

• 2. BE02 type rating

• 3. SAAB type rating.

Fly0nTheWall wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 7:21 am In this case, your friend never actually used the ATPL exams to receive a type rating, so TC is in fact correct. If they had gotten a type rating AFTER writing the ATPLs, they wouldn't have had to rewrite them

Yes I agree completely. I wrote that to highlight how strict TC is with regards to the timeline. In Hhassan89's case TC could argue he didn't write the exams to get a type rating either because after he wrote the exams he got a type rating that doesn't require an ATPL.

Again, I hope I'm wrong but TC is very sticky about this.

So I was very curious about this and also curious about how accurate my pessimism towards TC was so I reached out to a former CASI from TC and asked him. His response was that yes, the exams would be locked in. So I am happily wrong.

Chaxterium wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:19 pm So I was very curious about this and also curious about how accurate my pessimism towards TC was so I reached out to a former CASI from TC and asked him. His response was that yes, the exams would be locked in. So I am happily wrong.

What if one has the IATRA and then two-crew type rated. If you write ATPL exams now, only option is to get the necessary hours within 2 years of writing the 2 exams? (1500hrs, 250PIC, etc etc)

Me262 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:22 pm What if one has the IATRA and then two-crew type rated. If you write ATPL exams now, only option is to get the necessary hours within 2 years of writing the 2 exams? (1500hrs, 250PIC, etc etc)

That's correct.

Me262 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 03, 2023 7:22 pm What if one has the IATRA and then two-crew type rated. If you write ATPL exams now, only option is to get the necessary hours within 2 years of writing the 2 exams? (1500hrs, 250PIC, etc etc)

There is another option. Write the exams after you have all the requirements in the logbook.