Anxiety

[AuxBatOn]

Don't mean to be a jerk, but if you suffer from some of these modern "conditions" professions like aviation, EMS, fire, police, millitary might not be a good choice.

Are you saying that some very fine soldiers suffering from PTSD were/are not fit for their military jobs? I know more than one person that suffers from PTSD yet, they are excellent soldiers/sailors/airman. And yes, they are given the tools to manage their illness.

I'm not saying this to be mean, or hurt anyone's "feelings", I'm saying this because one day you might find yourself flying me or mine around and there are enough variables in aviation by its nature.

After reading you for a while, You are either:
1- An elaborate troll
2- Someone that hasn't matured yet and doesn't have the social situational awareness to keep his uninformed, inexperienced opinion to himself
3- Some old crusty jerk

You seem to be proud of what you accomplish and want to let the world know (PC-12 Capt, 2 engine failures, etc) so I'll go with 2. I hope you'll mature soon enough...

[SuperchargedRS]

Per your first question, no, if the soldiers are unstable to the point of medication being required to keep them from coming unglued, they shouldn't be armed or in the field, they should be moved to another less critical, dangerous, stressful job.


Per me, if I wanted the world to know how cool or whatever I am, I'd post under my actual name, it ain't about me brother.

As for not knowing anything, well on this subject I kinda do, I was with someone for a while who had anxiety issues, great person, lots of potential and lots of things she can do in life and thrive at, being a pro pilot, structural fire fighter, urban cop, just ain't in her cards though.

[AuxBatOn]

Per your first question, no, if the soldiers are unstable to the point of medication being required to keep them from coming unglued, they shouldn't be armed or in the field, they should be moved to another less critical, dangerous, stressful job.

Some of these folk were treated and returned in their unit. I know if one individual who was working for me that was in charge of weapons training. Did an awesome job and was never worried about him. Things like that are not black and white or binary.

Would you say someone with diabetes should never get into a cockpit?

As for not knowing anything, well on this subject I kinda do, I was with someone for a while who had anxiety issues, great person, lots of potential and lots of things she can do in life and thrive at, being a pro pilot, structural fire fighter, urban cop, just ain't in her cards though.

You have 1 data point and it makes you an expert? Better than the doctors working on medical standards not only in Canada but in the world?

[B208]

Some people just are not cut out to be in some jobs.

That's been the case since humans were eating bugs off cave floors, so what?

So, I'm right and you just stipulated to that fact.

conditions like anxiety as a con hiding an overall weakness indicative of unworthy snowflakes

What we have here is a classic example of an ideologue, (Rockie), who is incapable of seeing a middle ground.

He sees only two possible positions: Either everybody who claims to have anxiety is genuine and above board, (the position that Rockie takes) or everybody that claims to have anxiety is a fraudster. Rockie feels that anyone who suggests anything other than his position must automatically be arguing in favour of the opposite position. He lacks the flexibility of thought to grasp that there may be a middle ground in which there are some people who are genuinely victims of anxiety and that there are other individuals that realize that they can get a free pass in certain circumstances by claiming to have anxiety.

[B208]

Per your first question, no, if the soldiers are unstable to the point of medication being required to keep them from coming unglued, they shouldn't be armed or in the field, they should be moved to another less critical, dangerous, stressful job.

That is pretty much the path the CF follows. It depends on how bad the individual's case is.

[AuxBatOn]

Per your first question, no, if the soldiers are unstable to the point of medication being required to keep them from coming unglued, they shouldn't be armed or in the field, they should be moved to another less critical, dangerous, stressful job.

That is pretty much the path the CF follows. It depends on how bad the individual's case is.

Not my experience. In several cases, with appropriate treatment and follow up, individuals are allowed to continue in their trades.

[B208]

Per your first question, no, if the soldiers are unstable to the point of medication being required to keep them from coming unglued, they shouldn't be armed or in the field, they should be moved to another less critical, dangerous, stressful job.

That is pretty much the path the CF follows. It depends on how bad the individual's case is.

Not my experience. In several cases, with appropriate treatment and follow up, individuals are allowed to continue in their trades.

I will simply note that there are cases you have not experienced. The JPSU has quite a number of members who are employed on limited duties. Again, it's done on a case by case basis according to the needs and abilities of the individual.

[AuxBatOn]

I didn't say that all members get back into the units but that there is a path in place to fix people and grt them back in units and it has happenned, more often than I think is portrayed.

[B208]

In North America, generally speaking, psychiatric disorders are diagnosed through criteria set out in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fifth Edition (DSM-5) that is published by the American Psychiatric Association (not "the government"). The background of the authors of this manual is impressive and they all are scientists or medical doctors. In order to be diagnosed with a recognized psychiatric disorder, specific diagnostic criteria are used - not just someone saying they feel "anxious", "stressed" or "depressed".

I see what you are saying; I would add a small caution. The DSM is a living document and very subjective. It essentially amounts to a consensus of what the current generation of physiologists and psychiatrists feel is a mental illness. For example, earlier editions of it listed homosexuality as a mental disorder. The DSM is certainly the resource for mental health, however it is not as etched in stone as say Principia Mathematica.

[B208]

I didn't say that all members get back into the units but that there is a path in place to fix people and grt them back in units and it has happenned, more often than I think is portrayed.

It would appear that we are in violent agreement.

[Rockie]

So, I'm right and you just stipulated to that fact.

You're correct B208, I did agree with you there. Very astute of you to notice.

What we have here is a classic example of an ideologue, (Rockie), who is incapable of seeing a middle ground.

I don't know how you infer that. It's obvious from SuperchargedRS's post he doesn't see a middle ground and views anybody with anxiety issues or anything else he deems a weakness as a "snowflake". I disagree. I've looked to see where I've said everybody who claims anxiety is genuine per your assertion above and I can't seem to find it. You obviously can so perhaps you can show me?

[Gear Jerker]

With respect to some opinions in this thread... wow!

There is this thing called empathy, which is a fundamental element of emotional intelligence. Not to be mistaken for sympathy; empathy is simply the ability to consider another person's perspective.

Anxiety is a natural human emotion that we all experience from time to time in varying intensity and duration, and it is related to specific stimuli. General anxiety disorder does not depend on specific stimuli. In either case, it is not necessarily indicative of an individual's ability to perform during a stressful situation (ie an engine failure). In some cases it can be, but it is not a rule.

If somebody breaks their arm in a car accident, we sign their cast and offer our help.

If somebody has a traumatic experience in their life and suffer from anxiety or depression, with the old school or emotionally unintelligent perspective, we label them as "snowflakes" or whatever the hell supercharged said. By the way, we've all had engine failures, unsafe landing gears, etc. It's part of our job as professional pilots to deal with these things, and it has nothing to do with how anxious we feel as we go about our daily lives.

I'm honestly sorry to hear that you had a hard time dealing with someone who suffered from general anxiety. It can be a very confusing and frustrating experience. And I'm sure that you're right; that particular individual isn't suited for a stressful, dynamic occupation that carries a lot of responsibility. However, to take your experience and then paint anybody who suffers from anxiety with the same brush is simply, stupid.

[atphat]

+1.

[CpnCrunch]

As for not knowing anything, well on this subject I kinda do, I was with someone for a while who had anxiety issues, great person, lots of potential and lots of things she can do in life and thrive at, being a pro pilot, structural fire fighter, urban cop, just ain't in her cards though.

Ok, let me try and explain, as it seems you don't understand what everyone is talking about. It sounds like you have met someone with a particular kind of anxiety, but I very much doubt the OP is that kind of person.

The kind of anxiety (I assume) we are talking about is where a person who normally does NOT experience any kind of anxiety performing a task (e.g. flying), but for whatever reason now suddenly experiences anxiety for no apparent reason. (Note that it is not being anxious about flying, driving to work, etc. It is generalised anxiety that occurs where it did not occur before).

It's great that you've never experienced this, but I can assure you that it has nothing to do with being a "snowflake". Everyone is susceptible to depression and anxiety in the right circumstances, even you. (We can demonstrate what appears to be depression and anxiety in lab rats, so unless you're less evolved than a rat, you yourself can also be made to experience chronic anxiety).

Sure, there are some people who might have been anxious all their lives and aren't cut out to be pilots. But you'd have to be a pretty unempathic dick to automatically assume the OP was in this category.

[Rookie50]

Does anybody take something for anxiety, or know if there is anything that can be prescribed and still hold a class 1 medical?

Let me quote the OP's question, which some responded to quite well.

Some did not. Tip for those: Learn to listen first / respond intelligently afterwards, about someone's life you know nothing about.

The OP asked about medication for anxiety while continuing to fly, presumably, which some expanded into answers about other coping mechanisms. Cool.

Didn't ask:

If he / she should be flying / safe and qualified to fly
To be labeled as a snowflake, or anything else, (Bizzare)
Any other unsolicited advice on the validity of their condition or career choice.

Dealing with anxiety or any other emotional condition doesn't mean to me the sufferer is any less of a complete professional in my eyes, or blind to their own condition. I've self grounded for health reasons many times, even in my PPL world. I'd expect no less of the pros.

[TG]

Sorry but all these new "conditions" are really silly, they didn't exist up until recently

Man, a lot of conditions didn't exist up until recently.

Well more accurately, they did exist! It's just that they were not "framed" yet.
Things like cancer, heart disease, etc... I think they had no clue about it back in the middle age.
Those though men would probably call that "silly" conditions at the time anyway.

See what I mean!?

Probably not.
In that case, you are free to return to your cave, with the appropriate life expectancy

[Rookie50]

Sorry but all these new "conditions" are really silly, they didn't exist up until recently

Man, a lot of conditions didn't exist up until recently.

Well more accurately, they did exist! It's just that they were not "framed" yet.
Things like cancer, heart disease, etc... I think they had no clue about it back in the middle age.
Those though men would probably call that "silly" conditions at the time anyway.

See what I mean!?

Probably not.
In that case, you are free to return to your cave, with the appropriate life expectancy

Didn't exist? The Vietnam vets were / are making it all up?

[SuperchargedRS]

With respect to some opinions in this thread... wow!

There is this thing called empathy, which is a fundamental element of emotional intelligence. Not to be mistaken for sympathy; empathy is simply the ability to consider another person's perspective.

Anxiety is a natural human emotion that we all experience from time to time in varying intensity and duration, and it is related to specific stimuli. General anxiety disorder does not depend on specific stimuli. In either case, it is not necessarily indicative of an individual's ability to perform during a stressful situation (ie an engine failure). In some cases it can be, but it is not a rule.

If somebody breaks their arm in a car accident, we sign their cast and offer our help.

If somebody has a traumatic experience in their life and suffer from anxiety or depression, with the old school or emotionally unintelligent perspective, we label them as "snowflakes" or whatever the hell supercharged said. By the way, we've all had engine failures, unsafe landing gears, etc. It's part of our job as professional pilots to deal with these things, and it has nothing to do with how anxious we feel as we go about our daily lives.

I'm honestly sorry to hear that you had a hard time dealing with someone who suffered from general anxiety. It can be a very confusing and frustrating experience. And I'm sure that you're right; that particular individual isn't suited for a stressful, dynamic occupation that carries a lot of responsibility. However, to take your experience and then paint anybody who suffers from anxiety with the same brush is simply, stupid.

Empathy is a great thing, and should be practiced on the couch of a shrink, but I don't have a place for it on the flight deck.

And no, if someone CURRENTLY had a broken arm, no way in hell should they be acting as pilot in command.

Everyone has emotional issues, but when you believe you need to be drugged to cope, that's a whole nother matter and needs to be addressed before you touch a aircraft.

Again, for those who haven't been "triggered" by my lack of happy happy joy joy words, I said I've felt anxiety before too, everyone has, but some people can deal with it, others need drugs and what not, those people shouldn't be on the flight deck till their issues are put to bed, as in no drugs or treatment needed anymore, if that time ever comes.

[Rockie]

Empathy is a great thing, and should be practiced on the couch of a shrink, but I don't have a place for it on the flight deck.

So, if your F/O were to say "I'm not comfortable with this" your response would be "suck it up snowflake"?

[SuperchargedRS]

Empathy is a great thing, and should be practiced on the couch of a shrink, but I don't have a place for it on the flight deck.

So, if your F/O were to say "I'm not comfortable with this" your response would be "suck it up snowflake"?

Depends on what this is and how he said it.

If our course put us into a line of hard core CBs and he said logically and calmly he was not comfy for X Y Z, well that's the point of having two brains up front.

If it was clear blue and 22, plane was good, cabin good, forecasts good, were just about to push back, and he started freaking out and saying over and over in a stressed voice "I'm not comfortable with this!!", that's a whole nother' situation.

[Rockie]

I'm not talking about anything as cut and dried as those two scenarios. I'm talking about a situation that approaches your limit, but thanks to your superior skill and experience you're willing to give it a go. Your F/O however is not.

Snowflake? Or do you say "ok, we'll give this one a pass then"?

[CpnCrunch]

I said I've felt anxiety before too, everyone has, but some people can deal with it, others need drugs and what not,

From your comments above, it sounds like you have never experienced chronic/generalised anxiety, only short-term anxiety or anxiety at a particular stressful situation (which is completely different). It's not something you just deal with by ignoring or pushing through. That can actually make it much worse. We're not talking about anxiety at flying marginal VFR or something like that. If that's what you think this discussion is about, you need to stop now before you make yourself look any worse that you already look.

Certainly nobody should fly with severe anxiety or depression, but nobody in this thread is saying that.

[AuxBatOn]

And no, if someone CURRENTLY had a broken arm, no way in hell should they be acting as pilot in command.

What about someone with diabetes? High cholesterol? Or imperfect eyesight?

[Cat Driver]

How about flying with the clap?

[SuperchargedRS]

I'm not talking about someone who get a little jittery, I'm talking about someone who knows they have a problem to the point they are asking what pills they can pop while holding their medical.