AC is competing directly with those US carriers your heart desires on international travel and they are doing an extremely good job taking passengers from the US overseas so maybe they aren't as good as you think.altiplano wrote:US carriers wouldn't go for it. It's not a fair trade and shows your ignorance/prejudice in the matter.rookiepilot wrote:
Let the US airlines in -- give them slots for YYZ - YVR, give AC slots LGA - LAX. Think that's a fair trade.
Additionally, allowing outright cabotage without reciprocity would be ridiculously stupid.
We'll never see it happen - but I'd be happy to see Canada/US open skies from my perspective... I'd be happier to see Canadian regulators/airports get in line with US policies re:fees/taxes.
Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
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Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
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godsrcrazy
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Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
I have traveled with every major US carrier. I can assure you the majority aren't even close to the Canadian carriers when it comes to service and attitude.fish4life wrote:AC is competing directly with those US carriers your heart desires on international travel and they are doing an extremely good job taking passengers from the US overseas so maybe they aren't as good as you think.altiplano wrote:US carriers wouldn't go for it. It's not a fair trade and shows your ignorance/prejudice in the matter.rookiepilot wrote:
Let the US airlines in -- give them slots for YYZ - YVR, give AC slots LGA - LAX. Think that's a fair trade.
Additionally, allowing outright cabotage without reciprocity would be ridiculously stupid.
We'll never see it happen - but I'd be happy to see Canada/US open skies from my perspective... I'd be happier to see Canadian regulators/airports get in line with US policies re:fees/taxes.
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
Same! Have recently been on Delta, United, AA, Alaskan and Southwest. While the service on alaskan was decent, the rest were at best, marginal.godsrcrazy wrote: I have traveled with every major US carrier. I can assure you the majority aren't even close to the Canadian carriers when it comes to service and attitude.
YMMV
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rookiepilot
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Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
Look guys. If AC is so superior on service, why did they fight competition from Porter tooth and nail?
They had no interest in YTZ until Porter started doing well, then the attitude of the corporate bigwigs was "we are AC, we DEMAND first choice of slots anywhere we choose -- just because". "Give us porters slots -- (so we can put them out of business")
No matter Porter was there first. It's that corporate arrogance of entitlement that I dislike, too.
It's "We are AC, we don't have accidents -- we have hard landings".
Any negative publicity one can argue AC brings it on themselves. That's why WJ gets an easier ride, IMO.
I've been in the past year, (on US trips) on AA Delta United. Delta (on last trip) was really great. Others were an Ok bus ride. AC was good out of Denver, too. Maybe competition helps.
They had no interest in YTZ until Porter started doing well, then the attitude of the corporate bigwigs was "we are AC, we DEMAND first choice of slots anywhere we choose -- just because". "Give us porters slots -- (so we can put them out of business")
No matter Porter was there first. It's that corporate arrogance of entitlement that I dislike, too.
It's "We are AC, we don't have accidents -- we have hard landings".
Any negative publicity one can argue AC brings it on themselves. That's why WJ gets an easier ride, IMO.
I've been in the past year, (on US trips) on AA Delta United. Delta (on last trip) was really great. Others were an Ok bus ride. AC was good out of Denver, too. Maybe competition helps.
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
Because AC is a business.rookiepilot wrote:Look guys. If AC is so superior on service, why did they fight competition from Porter tooth and nail?
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
Can't agree more, thats easily a business decision not some ego play.PROC_HDG wrote:Because AC is a business.rookiepilot wrote:Look guys. If AC is so superior on service, why did they fight competition from Porter tooth and nail?
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rookiepilot
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Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
....Sure. But they sure whined to the media when they didn't get their way at YTZ.PROC_HDG wrote:Because AC is a business.rookiepilot wrote:Look guys. If AC is so superior on service, why did they fight competition from Porter tooth and nail?
This is a good read on the YTZ story.
http://business.financialpost.com/news/ ... op-airport
Seems to me AC wants to be a business when it suits them, and cry for government favouritism, also when it suits them.
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
That'll probably stop when and IF our dollar goes up, because it sure is down!fish4life wrote:altiplano wrote:AC is competing directly with those US carriers your heart desires on international travel and they are doing an extremely good job taking passengers from the US overseas so maybe they aren't as good as you think.rookiepilot wrote:
Let the US airlines in -- give them slots for YYZ - YVR, give AC slots LGA - LAX. Think that's a fair trade.
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
So they shouldn't be selling seats they don't havePROC_HDG wrote:Because AC is a business.rookiepilot wrote:Look guys. If AC is so superior on service, why did they fight competition from Porter tooth and nail?
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
Alright, wow, kids, chill out...
Let's start with something we can all agree on: the CBC's Aviation Reporting is atrocious. While they definitely pick on Air Canada way more than the other carriers, all around the quality is abysmal. I've been asked by the CBC (and other news agencies) to be interviewed a few times on various aviation / legal issues and have always declined due to either a conflict of interest or that I did not feel I would be able to add more to the story. That being said, on one issue I did offer to try and provide more information on a specific topic to further productive discussion, and it was met with crickets.
With respect to the story: a cycling team got bumped off WestJet. It sucked I'm sure. It sounds like WJ has already offered a fair bit of compensation. Will they get more? Tough to say - as it's an international flight, their ability to claim damages is covered under the Montreal Convention. The maximum amount a passenger is entitled to received due to a delayed or cancelled flight is just over $8000 CAD (4,964 Special Drawings Rights) - this is whether Super Gabor is involved or not. However, an airline can escape liability if it shows that it took all reasonable measures to avoid the delay. Reasonable measures are based on what was reasonable in the situation. I don't know the particulars so could not give an opinion on whether it was reasonable.
While I don't love the WestJet Ads, it is true that WestJet doesn't overbook their flights. That's what they claim in the advertisement. It DOES NOT mean that people won't ever get bumped for other reasons. There is a very big difference.
On the flip side. Many other airlines do overbook flights and in my opinion, there is NOTHING wrong with it and it is in fact smart business sense. Air Canada, United and Delta's loads on the route that I frequent (YYZ-NYC) are always way better than WestJet's. The type of business traveller that uses this service will cancel / change / arrive late / early for these flights all the time. It makes perfect sense to ensure strong loads to factor in a certain amount of cancellations or no shows. As I understand it, the new Canadian Passenger Bill of Rights doesn't even forbid such a practice, just outlines that there needs to be set compensation in the event of bumping.
Besides, whenever Gabor comments on an article, I simply skip over the quotes. Based on his history of unsuccessful litigation, he should just stick to trying to teach instead of crusading for "justice". Reading the reviews about him on "Rate my prof" are awesome:
Let's start with something we can all agree on: the CBC's Aviation Reporting is atrocious. While they definitely pick on Air Canada way more than the other carriers, all around the quality is abysmal. I've been asked by the CBC (and other news agencies) to be interviewed a few times on various aviation / legal issues and have always declined due to either a conflict of interest or that I did not feel I would be able to add more to the story. That being said, on one issue I did offer to try and provide more information on a specific topic to further productive discussion, and it was met with crickets.
With respect to the story: a cycling team got bumped off WestJet. It sucked I'm sure. It sounds like WJ has already offered a fair bit of compensation. Will they get more? Tough to say - as it's an international flight, their ability to claim damages is covered under the Montreal Convention. The maximum amount a passenger is entitled to received due to a delayed or cancelled flight is just over $8000 CAD (4,964 Special Drawings Rights) - this is whether Super Gabor is involved or not. However, an airline can escape liability if it shows that it took all reasonable measures to avoid the delay. Reasonable measures are based on what was reasonable in the situation. I don't know the particulars so could not give an opinion on whether it was reasonable.
While I don't love the WestJet Ads, it is true that WestJet doesn't overbook their flights. That's what they claim in the advertisement. It DOES NOT mean that people won't ever get bumped for other reasons. There is a very big difference.
On the flip side. Many other airlines do overbook flights and in my opinion, there is NOTHING wrong with it and it is in fact smart business sense. Air Canada, United and Delta's loads on the route that I frequent (YYZ-NYC) are always way better than WestJet's. The type of business traveller that uses this service will cancel / change / arrive late / early for these flights all the time. It makes perfect sense to ensure strong loads to factor in a certain amount of cancellations or no shows. As I understand it, the new Canadian Passenger Bill of Rights doesn't even forbid such a practice, just outlines that there needs to be set compensation in the event of bumping.
Besides, whenever Gabor comments on an article, I simply skip over the quotes. Based on his history of unsuccessful litigation, he should just stick to trying to teach instead of crusading for "justice". Reading the reviews about him on "Rate my prof" are awesome:
I digress. At this point in time, trying to have an argument about whether WJ or AC are better at customer service is a waste. It is a much better use of time to try and figure out how reporting and public relations of the aviation industry as a whole could be better. But then again, it is an internet message board, so maybe I shouldn't be making comments about what is a waste of time..."Worst prof i have ever had...."
"One of the worst profs ever. "
"Horrible. Switch immediately. ...dont waste you time. ... lukacs is an idiot genious. he cant teach, plain and simple."
Re: Westjet bumps pax after launching ad campaign that it doesn't
I think you miss the point on why it is a ridiculous trade...fish4life wrote:AC is competing directly with those US carriers your heart desires on international travel and they are doing an extremely good job taking passengers from the US overseas so maybe they aren't as good as you think.altiplano wrote:US carriers wouldn't go for it. It's not a fair trade and shows your ignorance/prejudice in the matter.rookiepilot wrote:
Let the US airlines in -- give them slots for YYZ - YVR, give AC slots LGA - LAX. Think that's a fair trade.
Additionally, allowing outright cabotage without reciprocity would be ridiculously stupid.
We'll never see it happen - but I'd be happy to see Canada/US open skies from my perspective... I'd be happier to see Canadian regulators/airports get in line with US policies re:fees/taxes.
LAX/NYC combined population ~35 million, YVR/YYZ combined population ~8 million... not to mention the amount of additional traffic outside the population that flows between NY/LA...
They aren't equivalent markets... same goes with the entire country...
US has 10X the population/market we do. They would never go for outright open markets or cherry picked route swaps with Canada.
