Milton Leaving?

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:31 pm

xsbank wrote:Oh get over the Canadian thing - it is so old. You guys have reached the so-called brass-ring of Canadian aviation and yet you still bitch and moan.

Gawd am I the only one who is totally fed up with this attitude? The only thing in an airplane that doesn't stop whining after the engines stop is the pilot.

With all due respect, I am sure if your income was reduced by up to 50%, you would have a little something to say. More than a little something infact.

That is the problem in Canada, people don't stand up enough, thats why we have the worlds most expensive and inefficient health care run by a government that knows nothing other than how to write a cheque.

I don't like listening to complaints but we are not talking about someone losing their dental benefits, we are talking about some people losing half their income! Get used to it, the complaining won't stop until something is done.

Oh BTW, a new senority list was released today and is before the CIRB for final approval. Why? because someone finally realised that what happened was totally unjust. Why? because of the complaining.

While everyone took a haircut, some up to 50%, here is what Milton and the boys got for their efforts!

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:36 pm

I am glad to hear it Jaques...hopefully they figure it out in our sector as well.....

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 2:52 pm

Jaques... Please correct me if I'm wrong... The "no bump no flush" provisions in the seniority merge made sure nobody would get ousted from their left seat.... however, when the fleet reductions took place later on... the downbid is what created that situation... isn't that correct?
Though I do certainly agree that what finaly happened left some rather glaring inequities in the lower regions of the Keller list, I don't believe the 50% pay reduction you speak of can be rightly called a result of the merger.

Mig29,

Ok, I apologize for the "smokin' something" comment... that was over the top and nasty... sorry man, I shouldn't have said that.

Now... if you had a year and a half in in 2001 then you weren't even on the property when the merger BS began in 99.... So no, you didn't deserve to share in that "loyalty bonus" paid to OAC employees.

You're absolutely full of beans though if you really think Milton was collecting anything close to 3 million a month!

And no, take over is not correct... say it as many times as you wish, but it was indeed a "merger". If you'd read Milton's book (" Straight from the Top" - for those who were asking) you'd know that.

Mig29 · Post by **Mig29** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:55 pm

Mitch, apology accepted...
but listen, maybe I have gonne over with the pay, but I did say along with bonuses.....I remember that it was around a $1,5Million...and if you think about that is not excessive. If B747 Chief Pilot made upwards of 300k a year (know it personally), then when you look at the long list of executives that follow Milton that Jaques pulled out, just add 10% to the next guy up that list, and you will arrive at a high number of dollars...but I am not arguing his pay, but the way he handled other employees pay. As I said before, all for the company or no one at all.

But its in human nature to be greedy, it comes along with power...and few can resist it and be morally guilt-free of abusing it.

And that sums it up, why I feel and think that he and his cronis are NOT a good bunch of guys. My philosphy is if you don't like something speak out, but 90% of our managers were willing to put up with top managments BS, just to protect their butts......

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:55 pm

Mitch

Technically there may have been a no bump no flush clause, to be honest I am not sure because right after the merger, airplanes were parked. The entire DC10 fleet never carried an Air Canada passenger, they were immediately parked. Then the DC-9 and the 737 fleet went to ZIP, then the desert. Everyone started rolling downhill, so the no bump no flush concept didn't really happen because everyone was bumping. By the time the dust settled, Keller was out and for some, the ball kept rolling downhill.

This is where some 320 captains ended up as F/O's and 340 F/O's ended up as relief pilots, taking a 50% wage cut and the least fortunate were the ones laid off who basically took a 100% pay cut.

Without getting political, to say that it wasn't a result of buying Canadian would be a little naive in my opinion. I know you are ex CAIL and I respect that so I don't really want to debate that issue.

Would there have been a downturn at Air Canada if CAIL wasn't in the picture? Absolutely, but out of all the parked airplanes, the majority were Canadians and unfortunately, the majority of the layoffs as a result, were Air Canada. At least for the pilots.

I read Miltons' book and it was a good read, a few misquotes that he is infact being sued over but all in all, fairly accurate. Is he a smart man? Absolutely! Sharp negotiator? You would be hard pressed to find better. Great manager? This is where the mighty Milton fails drastically in my books. It is very hard for a group to follow a leader they loathe.

Mitch Cronin · Post by **Mitch Cronin** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:13 pm

Jaques Strappe wrote:Great manager? This is where the mighty Milton fails drastically in my books. It is very hard for a group to follow a leader they loathe.

I agree with that 100% ....shame too... I think if he'd been interested he could have been a great manager. He's got some magnetic qualities that would make him a great leader of people.... but he apparently doesn't know it. He's too arrogant to care much about those below him (except for very unfortunate children, whom' he quite evidently does indeed care about)

Probably his biggest liability is that he was born with a silver spoon in his mouth... knows nothing of true hardship..... or so I reckon anyway.

Cheers,

Mitch

Jaques Strappe · Post by **Jaques Strappe** » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:26 pm

You are right Mitch, he does have a magnetic quality. I met him in Vancouver once. As he approached me, I could feel the dislike for him coming to the surface. After talking for half an hour, I walked away thinking, wow what a nice guy!

If you can F%#$@K somebody and have them smile and say thank you, then you probably have a great business quality. An hour later the smile left me and I went back to not liking the guy!

Joe Randell, the president of Jazz is just the opposite, or at least he was when he was running Air Nova. He would remember your name and ask how your family was doing while in the cafeteria line at work! People would follow him into a burning building. Not sure how is doing now though.